You Have GOT To See THIS!

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You Have GOT To See THIS!
Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 4:53 PM

It's amazing!

One of the posters on the "Classic Toy Trains" Forum brought this to everyone's attention, so I've simply got to pass it along.  It's restored and half-tone colorized film of New York City in 1911, with added sound effects.  Harbor scenes, street scenes with trolleys and antique cars (well, OK, they weren't antique at the time) some elevated action, and shots of Brooklyn Bridge traffic.

I'm sure you'll find it as fascinating as I did, almost like a time machine!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=hZ1OgQL9_Cw&feature=emb_logo  

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 5:33 PM

Some fine looking moustaches I tell ya... and the ladies look marvellous! 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 6:42 PM

Yeah, I wish I could grow a moustache as well as those guys did!  Mine's not bad, but compared to them I'm a beginner!

I don't know if this is true or not, but I've read there was a tradition among New York cops and firemen back in those days.  If he had a moustache he was married, if he was clean-shaven he was available.  Huh?

I concur on the ladies!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 7:39 PM

Great stuff!  Didn't see Josh Cowen in there but one guy looked a bit like Robert Oppenheimer with his pork pie hat!  Big Smile

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 8:14 PM

I think if Josh Cowan was there he'd have been chasing the camera crew around!

"Hey!  Waddaya got?  Whaddaya doin'?  Howzit work?  Can I try it?"  

He probably would have driven them crazy with questions!  

And how about that sidewheeler with the walking beam engine, the "Rosedale?"  Just too cool for words!   I'm trying to remember back 40+ years but I think Disney World in Orlando had something similar back in 1975.  I've got a slide of it buried, somewhere. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 8:23 PM

Notice the underground electric for the street cars.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 8:52 PM

BaltACD

Notice the underground electric for the street cars.

 

Yes, I couldn't help but notice that.  I wasn't aware New York used that kind of a system.  This is where we need Dave Klepper's input, obviously he wasn't around back then but I'll bet he can tell us about it.  What David doesn't know about New York City transit never happened to begin with, count on it!

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 10:36 PM

The streetcars are running off a "conduit" system, which was installed in the tranch originally used by the cable from when the lines were powered by cable. Washington, DC also used conduits.

Main problem with conduits was being very expensive to install, and a royal pain to maintain - think cleaning out the dirt on a frequent basis. Special work was another "fun" aspect of working with conduits.

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 11:04 PM

 

And here I thought it was Tip Top Tailors  .. still a big deal up here in Canada coast to coast. Their big factory where they made the men's clothing was in Burlington right alongside the tracks with its own sidings of course. 
NDG
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Posted by NDG on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 11:09 PM

 

More Data, Please???
 
What might be of Interest would be further images and specifications on the Inner Workings of the See Saw Paddle Steamer " Rosedale. " leaving the pier @ time 7:14.
 
 
Type of Boiler, Steam Pressure, Condensing, Bore and Stroke of Engine, Reversing, Year Built, etc. 
 
A Lovely film!
 

Thank You for Posting it!!

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Posted by Jones1945 on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 11:51 PM

Great film editing and a great YouTube channel as well.  Smile

Apollo 16 mission at 4K, 60fps, everything looks so "unreal":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az9nFrnCK60

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, March 5, 2020 8:09 AM

The Rosedale 

"The Rosedale was built at Norfolk, Va. in 1877. She is 216 feet long, 34 feet beam, 10 feet deep, and of 677 tons.  She can go about 18 knots an hour, and has capacity for 1, 200 passengers."
 
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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 5, 2020 8:35 AM

Streetcars were underground, essentially in subways, in New Tork Xity, in these places:

Ramps 32-33Strett to 41st - 42ns Atreet on Park Avenue South, formerly 4th Avenue, New York and Harlem Raiload, steam to the opening of the oroiginal Grand Centrql Depot, and the restriction of steam only ro north of 42nd Street around 1991, someone else can supply the exact date.  New Haven trains contninth to be hauled by hoses south to the 29th Streete depot for a few more years.  Part of the original street railway, oeifinally an opwn xur, a subway wiht two stations for horsecaars unril wlwxreidiws vy rhw Nssfdopol,ifn Railway aound 1899-1001 with the counduit system , like all Manhattan streetcar lines.  Owned outright by the General Motor;s owned New York Railways after 1934, but operated as part of that "Green Lines" system before then.  The fiirst major conversion of a north-south Mahattan streetcar line to buses in December 1935.  Tunnel now the Park Avenue South Vehicular Tunnel, clearances for private cars and taxis only, northern ramp moved one-block south. You can ride a taxi or drive a private cae through and see the change in cncrete where stations were located.

Adjacent to the existing Delancey and Essex Street subway stop, and visible from the right side of eastbound J, M, and Z trains before the emerge from the portal and cross the Williamsbug Bridge.  Was the Manhattan Terminal for four or five Brooklyln steetar lines that crossed the bridge.  In service until earlyl 1948, with no bus replacement for the streetcar service.

Simiklarly, and lasr used in 1957 for New York State's last streetar line, at 2md Avenue 59th-60th Streets, for streetcars crossing the Queensboro Bridge. See the thread on the Trains Transit Forum.

The underground

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 5, 2020 9:36 AM

New York's cable lines were converted to conduit using the existing cable conduit - under traffic!  This at a time when cable cars ran on very short headways.  New York cable systems use a duplicate cable system with two cables in the same slot with a grip that could grab either cable.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:16 AM

I've always thought that the Rosedale/Oregon 'incident' should have been the subject of a song, like a good-hearted version of Chapin's "40,000 pounds of bananas" ... I suggest "It was Not So Sad when the Not-So-Great Ship Went Down" with the appropriate tune.

Note what Hearst did with the Journal after Pulitzer ... read the sensationalized account above the picture, with the horror story about the Elevated suicide next to it, and then go down and read the far better actual journalism at the bottom of the page.

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:43 AM

Ship-to-ship collisions weren't uncommon in crowded harbor waters back in those days.  Luckily for Rosedale's  passengers the ship settled on a sandbar.  They couldn't wade to shore, they just had to be patient to be taken off.  

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, March 5, 2020 3:47 PM

Miningman

 

And here I thought it was Tip Top Tailors  .. still a big deal up here in Canada coast to coast. Their big factory where they made the men's clothing was in Burlington right alongside the tracks with its own sidings of course. 
 

Interesting!  I clicked on that "Stockton School" link and what pops up?  The Ampere section of East Orange!

The Montclair Branch of NJ Transit runs through there although the Ampere station no longer exists.  Few rider pick-ups and drop-offs plus deterioration of the facilities led to it's being demolished in 1995.

I've got a "Head-end ride" video of the Montclair Branch from 1991, and let me tell you, the whole branch was so deteriorated and scary looking I'm tempted to watch the video with a .45 automatic on the end table!  

Anyway, here's the Ampere station story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampere_station  

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, March 5, 2020 7:11 PM

Flintlock76
I'm trying to remember back 40+ years but I think Disney World in Orlando had something similar back in 1975.

The Southern Seas:

Here she is passing one of the Magic Kingdom ferries:

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, March 5, 2020 7:53 PM

Penny Trains
 
Flintlock76
I'm trying to remember back 40+ years but I think Disney World in Orlando had something similar back in 1975. 

The Southern Seas:

Here she is passing one of the Magic Kingdom ferries:

Disney Jungle Cruise boat has trouble

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, March 5, 2020 9:22 PM

Penny Trains

 

 
Flintlock76
I'm trying to remember back 40+ years but I think Disney World in Orlando had something similar back in 1975.

 

The Southern Seas:

Here she is passing one of the Magic Kingdom ferries:

 

 

That's it!  That's the one!  Good job Becky!  You know, I think we should call you the "Dave Klepper of Disney World," as in if you don't know about something Disney-related it never happened to begin with or was never there.

Southern Seas  doesn't have the fine lines of Rosedale, but it's still a good loking ship.  Impressed the hell out of me, let me tell you!  I just had to get a ride on her.

AND, if I remember correctly, this was a REAL ship, no guide-by-rails, the man in the wheelhouse was under control at all times.

I can imagine a cruise on the Hudson with it.  Oh boy...

I wonder if it's still around?

That classic double-end ferry's pretty cool too, all it needs for perfection is a different paint job and "Erie" or "Lackawanna" on the side!  Maybe "Jersey Central Lines?"

Thanks so much, now I don't have to go in the attic and fight off the attic monsters to find those Disney World slides.

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, March 5, 2020 10:39 PM

It's quite remarkable what we have put together here over the years at Classic. 

I think we should all take a moment to really see what we have built and take a bow. Amazing. Superb job to all. Take a bow.


Ampere

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, March 6, 2020 8:38 AM

I need to add to my posting on where New York City streetcars ran underground.  In addition to the three important locations I discussed, every major crosstown Bronx street that crossed the Grand Concourse north of 149th Street, except for Fordham Road which had a level stop-light-controlled crossing, tunneled under the GC for through traffic, and the serveral Xs (exect Fordham - 207th Street) the Z, and the C all ran under the Grand Concourse.  After The Bronx IND line under the Grand Concourse opened, one could transfer between the C. CC, and later the D subway trains to the crosstown streetcars without going outside, for an additional nickle, In some cases the streetcar station was under the subway.  Signes:  "Down to surface cars"

The New York and Harlem's 4th and Madison line went directly from horsecar to conduit electric,  without the cable intermediate step.  Cable was installed on the lowest portion of that line, which was shared with the Third Avenue line, the second to have cable following Lenox Avenue.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, March 6, 2020 9:29 AM

David you're amazing, you know that?  I don't know what we'd do without you!

Good stuff with those Ampere shots Vince!  Typical Lackawanna, no expense spared and build it to last.  That's why it was so sad to see what became of it in that 1991 video I mentioned.  In a way it reminded me of a Roman ruin, but without the dignity.  

Well, what are you gonna do?

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, March 6, 2020 7:44 PM

Flintlock76
AND, if I remember correctly, this was a REAL ship, no guide-by-rails, the man in the wheelhouse was under control at all times. I can imagine a cruise on the Hudson with it. Oh boy... I wonder if it's still around?

They were built for dinner cruises around both Bay Lake (the real lake between the Contemporary Resort and Fort Wilderness) and the Seven Seas Lagoon (the shallow man made lake between the parking lot and the Magic Kingdom).  There were 2: the Southern Seas and the Ports-O-Call, both "Osceola Class" with newly built walking beam engines.

There were originally a whole series of resort hotels planned for both lakes including the "Asian" which was to occupy the land where the Grand Floridian was eventually built.  It's the large red roofed structure on the model:

Accross the lagoon and to the right of the Contemporary was the planned Venetian hotel:

And to the left beyond Tomorrowland you can make out the blue dome of the Persian hotel.

The Asian would have had a very strong Thai influence:

Much later, the Venetian evolved into the "Mediterranean", a Grecian style resort to rival the recently built Grand Floridian in luxury appointments:

With all these high end resorts surrounding the lakes and the planned residential community at nearby Walt Disney World Village at Lake Buena Vista it's easy to imagine both guests and residents partaking in moonlight cruises on these two major bodies of water.  As for the 2 sidewheelers, legend says one of them sank while it was being refurbished and since the service for which they were intended never materialized, they were scrapped and cannibalized.  Sad

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, March 6, 2020 9:07 PM

Good stuff Becky, thanks a lot!

"Scrapped and cannibalized."  That bloody well figures.  If they could commit the sacrilege of junking the "Nautilus" submarines why would they scruple about the sidewheelers?    Bang Head

What would Walt say?  

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, March 7, 2020 7:53 PM

Flintlock76
What would Walt say?

Why haven't you filled this hole yet?!?!?

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, March 7, 2020 9:25 PM

Uh-huh.  I'll tell you, probably the only reason they've still got the live steam railroad is they're afraid Walt will come back from the dead and do some serious butt-kicking!  

Never underestimate the revenge of a steam freak.  

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, March 8, 2020 7:33 PM

Probably the earliest known drawing of what Disneyland would eventually look like is this one:

Legend has it it was drawn by Herb Ryman over a sleepless weekend as Walt chain smoked over his shoulder.  It was later used by Walt as he shopped around for funding with the big banks and corporations.  Note the roundhouse along the left edge.  This is a refinement of the 1932 plan to build a much smaller park accross the street from the studio:

This one suggests that park visitors would have been anle to walk into the locomotive shops.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, March 8, 2020 8:45 PM

Wow Becky, how do you come up with this stuff?

And don't those drawings remind you of BIG O gauge layouts?  Makes you wonder.

Maybe Disneyland was Walts "12 inch to the foot" scale layout?

Wayne

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, March 8, 2020 10:58 PM

Flintlock76

It's amazing!

One of the posters on the "Classic Toy Trains" Forum brought this to everyone's attention, so I've simply got to pass it along.  It's restored and half-tone colorized film of New York City in 1911, with added sound effects.  Harbor scenes, street scenes with trolleys and antique cars (well, OK, they weren't antique at the time) some elevated action, and shots of Brooklyn Bridge traffic.

I'm sure you'll find it as fascinating as I did, almost like a time machine!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=hZ1OgQL9_Cw&feature=emb_logo  

I wonder how the fellow with the crutches lost his leg?

Perhaps he had previously worked as a Brakeman.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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