49er vs Chiefs ..

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, February 3, 2020 5:03 PM

wjstix
 
rcdrye
The St. Louis Browns were the AL franchise in St. Louis (Cardinals were and are NL). Originally the Milwaukee Brewers (version 1), the Brown arrived in 1901 and left in 1953 to become the Baltimore Orioles - the first Browns team that Baltimore "stole". 

The Browns was also the name of the St.Louis team in the American Association of the 1880's. This wasn't the minor league that started in the early 1900s; it was a major league and it's champion played a "World's Championship Series" against the National League champion each year.

Wickipedia

History of the Orioles name

In the 1890s, in the National League of Professional Base Ball Clubs ("National League"), established in 1876, a powerful, innovative and scrappy Baltimore Orioles squad included "Wee" Willie KeelerWilbert RobinsonHughie Jennings and John McGraw. They won three straight unprecedented NL pennants - - 1894/1895/1896, and participated in all four of the then "Temple Cup" championship series, winning the last two of them.

That Orioles team had started a decade and a half earlier as a charter member of the old American Association in 1882, a competing rival to the then 7 year older Nationals. Despite its on-field success in either first or second place standings, it was unfortunately sabotaged as one of the four teams that was contracted out of existence by the National League after the 1899 season which reduced itself from 12 franchises to only 8 teams, a low number which endured for over half a century. Its best players (and its manager, Ned Hanlon) regrouped with the Brooklyn Trolley Dodgers, turning that later famous team into a contender.

In 1900 and 1901, Baltimore and infamous player/manager McGraw were awarded a charter franchise of the original 8 in the newly reorganized American League of Professional Baseball Clubs ("American League"), (out of the old minor level Western League) now claiming major league status under feisty president Ban Johnson, but again the team and city of Baltimore was sacrificed in favor of a New York City franchise - the "New York Higlanders", or occasionally known as the "New York Americans", as the team was transferred in 1903 to the nation's biggest city after only playing two seasons of ball of 1901 & 1902, as one of the terms negotiated of the "peace pact" to end the "baseball wars" between the elder Nationals of 1876 and the fledging upstart American League of 1901, giving the newcomers a representative franchise in the one American city that was the biggest and most important. Another term of the truce was also with inauguration of a new championship game tournament series to be known as the World Series, also begun in 1903.

After some early struggles, that fledging New York Highlanders team eventually became renamed a decade later in 1913 and by the 1920s with the help of a young Baltimorean - George Herman "Babe" Ruth and eventually became baseball's most successful franchise – the New York Yankees, the former legendary 19th century "Baltimore Orioles".

As a member of the high-minor league level in the International League (with Canadian and Cuban teams competing against Americans), these IL Orioles competed at what is now known as the "Triple A" ("AAA") minor league level from 1903 to 1953. Baltimore's own Babe Ruth pitched briefly for owner/manager Jack Dunn's Orioles for part of one season after signing the 19 year old wild rough youth out of St. Mary's Industrial School on Wilkens and Caton Avenues, just on the southwest edge of the city before being forced to further sell him to the AL Boston Red Sox in 1914 because of the new third major league competition by the Baltimore Terrapins of the upstart Federal League for two seasons.

These Orioles of the old IL were among the best baseball teams in America offerng frequent competition to passing AL and NL teams in exhibitions. These "Birds" won nine league championships, first in 1908 followed by a lengthy dominating run during the "Roaring 20's" from 1919 to 1925, and then finally dramatically during World War II in 1944, after they had lost their home field Oriole Park (built 1915) on Greenmount Avenue in a disastrous mid-season fire.[3] Later relocating to 33rd Street Boulevard to Municipal Stadium (aka Baltimore or Venable or later as Babe Ruth Stadium), - the 1922 football-only huge bowl for the rest of that '44 season (plus the following decade to 1954 as well), so thanks to that immense stadium, that the Junior World Series" easily outdrew that year's major league World Series which, coincidentally, included the same team of the St. Louis Browns of the AL (versus cross-town rivals St. Louis Cardinals from the NL) that would move to Baltimore 10 years later and take up occupancy in the rebuilt 1949-1954 version of that big stadium bowl in former Venable Park on 33rd Street.

The Baltimore Orioles have a much longer history than just the period of time since the St. Louis Browns were moved to Baltimore.

 

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, February 3, 2020 12:57 PM

rcdrye
The St. Louis Browns were the AL franchise in St. Louis (Cardinals were and are NL). Originally the Milwaukee Brewers (version 1), the Brown arrived in 1901 and left in 1953 to become the Baltimore Orioles - the first Browns team that Baltimore "stole".

The Browns was also the name of the St.Louis team in the American Association of the 1880's. This wasn't the minor league that started in the early 1900s; it was a major league and it's champion played a "World's Championship Series" against the National League champion each year.

Stix
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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, February 2, 2020 11:21 AM

Miningman
Names of Cigars that could/should have been passenger train names: 'Strange Passage'-- Plenty of contenders here.

But they would all have to be post-1996, which highly restricts the applicable consists.  But just think of the possibilities of redecorating a couple of drawing rooms as the Lincoln Bedroom, and charging an appropriate politically-related agio (through Amtrak, of course) for the accommodations...

'Hair of the Dog'

No one in their right mind would ever associate this with a cigar, and any attempt to do marketing spin to establish it would have a terrible uphill job for not one, but two reasons.  Nobody likes hangover allusions in a train name, particularly if it is delay-prone in any respect.

'Heart of Darkness'

Could have African-themed decor crafted like the stuff on the first Budd Super Chief consist!  Problem is that not everyone that boards the train makes it off.  To my knowledge only Aeroflot managed that drawback and remained in 'business'...

"Pimp Sticks"

Well we never did have a train specifically marketed to African-Americans, and this is a particularly shameful thing because for so many years we had enforced separate-but-unequal "marketing" provisions for them.  It would certainly be a shot in the eye to provide distinctive accommodations appealing to contemporary culture -- even something as little as a 'club' car with appropriate support.  And yes, it could be done in classy fashion, and yes, the clientele is there for the taking.  Adds a whole new meaning to that Lorde lyric about taking the train to the party -- now the train IS the party, just like in the glory Beebe days...

...Metroliners ...

Look here.  In the early days of Streamliner diesels you had a bunch of 'maintainers' riding along, fixing things every few hours, replacing the odd power assembly or whatever with the aid of built-in chain hoists at high speed, and I don't see complaints; you see pictures all over the place of shiny consists pulled ignominiously home by steam locomotives and I don't see complaints -- but build a complex overripe tomato of a high-speed train, and everyone starts in with the mocking.  TurboTrains, too.  

It was bad enough that these relied extensively on electronics back in the bad old flat-pack days.  They had to operate over highly indifferent track on an increasingly bankrupt railroad, with the abrupt termination of the free-money faucet that had enabled them, and it's just not surprising that they wouldn't keep running properly.  Certainly not a call to cue Boots Randolph or whoever as the soundtrack to agony.

It does have to be said that I extensively rode Metroliners* in the worst of the 'trouble' years, both between New York and Philadelphia and New York and Washington, and not once did the train run particularly late, let alone fail and have to be recovered.  I do remember one classic episode at either Wilmington or Baltimore, with a riding 'maintainer' using a bare-wire jumper in some sort of control box in a vestibule and leaning outside to watch the pans go up and down -- one could easily argue that this was an almost Mercedes-like provision of lethal fault opportunities that proper engineering would never have even 'designed in' in the first place.  But he got them up, we went back to 100mph, and got where we needed to...

*In relation to Dave Klepper's exchange with Joe over cab rides, I should say in full disclosure that I never paid for a Metroliner seat per se, just got on with a regular coach ticket at Philadelphia.  The conductor always said 'well, you know you won't have a seat' (which was fine, because I always rode standing up behind the engineer (he was never a motorman) and always accepted the fare on that basis, usually with a wink of understanding ... they were all proud of those trains and being on them in those days, hard as that may seem to believe now.

Now, I suppose it needs to be added, like Stan Repp with his matchsticks, how I got past the mandatory police and ticket-checking at all the stairwells at 30th Street when it was Metroliner train time.  At the south/west end of the station there was a path that connected all the platform ends.  You could go down one set of stairs or other to a conveniently vacant track, watch carefully and count your way across to the Necroliner platform, and at a proper moment work your way back when the consist came in and board at a convenient open door...

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, February 2, 2020 11:15 AM

Miningman
Names of Cigars that could/should have been passenger train names: 'Strange Passage'-- Plenty of contenders here.

But they would all have to be post-1996, which highly restricts the applicable consists.  But just think of the possibilities of redecorating a couple of drawing rooms as the Lincoln Bedroom, and charging an appropriate politically-related agio (through Amtrak, of course) for the accommodations...

'Hair of the Dog'

No one in their right mind would ever associate this with a cigar, and any attempt to do marketing spin to establish it would have a terrible uphill job for not one, but two reasons.  Nobody likes hangover allusions in a train name, particularly if it is delay-prone in any respect.

'Heart of Darkness'

Could have African-themed decor crafted like the stuff on the first Budd Super Chief consist!  Problem is that not everyone that boards the train makes it off.  To my knowledge only Aeroflot managed that drawback and remained in 'business'...

"Pimp Sticks"

Well we never did have a train specifically marketed to African-Americans, and this is a particularly shameful thing because for so many years we had enforced separate-but-unequal "marketing" provisions for them.  It would certainly be a shot in the eye to all the damn apartheid sympathizers to provide distinctive accommodations appealing to contemporary culture -- even something as little as a 'club' car with appropriate support.  And yes, it could be done in classy fashion, and yes, the clientele is there for the taking.  Adds a whole new meaning to that Lorde lyric about taking the train to the party -- now the train IS the party, just like in the glory Beebe days...

...Metroliners ...

Look here.  In the early days of Streamliner diesels you had a bunch of 'maintainers' riding along, fixing things every few hours, replacing the odd power assembly or whatever with the aid of built-in chain hoists at high speed, and I don't see complaints; you see pictures all over the place of shiny consists pulled ignominiously home by steam locomotives and I don't see complaints -- but build a complex overripe tomato of a high-speed train, and everyone starts in with the mocking.  TurboTrains, too.  

It was bad enough that these relied extensively on electronics back in the bad old flat-pack days.  They had to operate over highly indifferent track on an increasingly bankrupt railroad, with the abrupt termination of the free-money faucet that had enabled them, and it's just not surprising that they wouldn't keep running properly.  Certainly not a call to cue Boots Randolph or whoever as the soundtrack to agony.

It does have to be said that I extensively rode Metroliners in the worst of the 'trouble' years, both between New York and Philadelphia and New York and Washington, and not once did the train run particularly late, let alone fail and have to be recovered.  I do remember one classic episode at either Wilmington or Baltimore, with a riding 'maintainer' using a bare-wire jumper in some sort of control box in a vestibule and leaning outside to watch the pans go up and down -- one could easily argue that this was an almost Mercedes-like provision of lethal fault opportunities that proper engineering would never have even 'designed in' in the first place.  But he got them up, we went back to 100mph, and got where we needed to...

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, February 2, 2020 9:04 AM

That's the spirit Jones! Thanks.

Everyone, enjoy the game and the hoopla. Mr. Peanuts funeral airing during the game so I'm sure everyone will be on the edge of their seats in eager anticipation of that one. 

Wonder if any commercials will feature a train clip? Good opportunity for UP to score some big PR points feauturing the Big Boy but probably not. 

Which sort of brings up BNSF. That must be a marketing guys nightmare. What the heck is a BNSF, not all that easy to roll off the tongue or for the public to remember ... "hey honey, wasn't that the company that made recording tape or something like that? They bought a railroad?" 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, February 1, 2020 1:30 PM

John and his wife were smart because they turned the Broadway Limited into their private train... the"Smith Family Limited", money well spent! If they didn't board the train, the staff were the master of the train, but once the couple boarded the train, every single staff on the train had the duty to serve the couple for the next 16 hours. 

If PRR had the guts to rename Broadway Limited to 'Strange Passage' or ' Naughty Pimp Sticks', I guess some New Yorkers, should be more than two people, would have been open-minded enough to at least try the train for once. If PRR had even more guts to offer unique, priceless and unforgettable travel experience to everyone onboard the 'Pimp Sticks' or 'Strange Passage', like toilet-paper-throwing-party,  catch-the-chicken-in-the-kitchen competition, singing-out-of-tune-on-purpose live performance, worst poetry writing competition, dictionary-pages-flipping-with-the-nose-racing... etc, the train would have beaten Century's "monopoly".

'Ruination' should have been used exclusively on the Metroliner in Budd Metroliner era, you can find the reason from this YouTuber, note what kind of background music he picked:

The singing-out-of-tune-on-purpose live performance is no joke, it brings harmony to our society. Sing with me now, won't you? 

 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, February 1, 2020 12:03 PM

Names of Cigars that could/should have been passenger train names:

'Strange Passage'-- Plenty of contenders here. Actually a great Train name, if the RR had the daring to do so.

My pics are the CNR/CN trains that tracked through Northern Ontario through endless swamp, muskeg and Black Spruce. It takes a long time to go through Northern Ontario. Worse in the winter. Runner up goes to VIA's current Canadian that seems to have a schedule that if its 24 hours late it's on time. 

'Hair of the Dog'--- The passenger train to Hudson's Bay from Winnipeg. 

'Heart of Darkness' ---Alternate name for the GM&O Midnight Special.

"Pimp Sticks'--- Yeesh. Well let's go classy and apply this to the early days of the PRR Broadway Limited during the time when there were like only 2 passengers NY-Chi. Neither boarded in NY and neither departed in Chicago. Mr and Mrs 'John Smith' I presume. Nice train though!

'Ruination'--- Any and all Penn Central passenger trains, 2nd choice UP's passenger service to Vegas.

 

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, January 31, 2020 11:26 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
The colors of Mount Carmel HS are brown and white.

Thanks -- I see it now.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, January 31, 2020 11:06 AM

Miningman
Penny--- There already is a Rams team in Los Angeles. Actually that never stopped anyone as up here we had 2 CFL teams named Roughriders and Rough Riders. The Ottawa Rough Riders and Saskatchewan Roughriders existed side by side for decades. Only recently Ottawa renamed its team the ' Red Blacks' which makes no sense and is dumb but apparently is very cool. Their team colours are ummmm, Red and Black! Duh. 

The Rams originated in Cleveland then moved to LA then to St.Louis and then back to LA.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, January 31, 2020 10:20 AM

Overmod
 
CSSHEGEWISCH
Avoid bringing up the color brown (and the related high school) to alumni of the various past and present high schools of the Chicago Catholic League.

 

I'd understand that for 'orange' ... but what is the connection with brown in Chicago?

 
The colors of Mount Carmel HS are brown and white.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, January 30, 2020 8:16 PM

Overmod-- Passenger Trains named the same as Cigars?

Found:  Pan American, Park Avenue, Imperial.

Lot of straight place names that might be Train names-- Connecticut, Miami, Colorado, Hudson Bay, Prince Albert

Names of cigars that should have been Train names: -- Strange Passage, Hair of the Dog, Heart of Darkness, Pimp Sticks, Ruination

Penny--- There already is a Rams team in Los Angeles. Actually that never stopped anyone as up here we had 2 CFL teams named Roughriders and Rough Riders. The Ottawa Rough Riders and Saskatchewan Roughriders existed side by side for decades. Only recently Ottawa renamed its team the ' Red Blacks' which makes no sense and is dumb but apparently is very cool. Their team colours are ummmm, Red and Black! Duh. 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, January 30, 2020 7:54 PM

That was, in fact, the first thing that came to mind when I proposed it.  (Even though the immediate question involved Perfectos and Superbas!)

The second thing was 'torpedoes', of which 3768 is not one at all, no matter what Lionel tries to claim, but 6100 most definitely is...

1945 is the last year that team played in Cleveland; they went to LA the next year (as the Trolley Dodgers would do a few years later.  Ironically enough, where'd they wind up for a while in the middle?  St. Louis.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, January 30, 2020 6:25 PM

Big Smile  I'm Cuckoo For Choo Choo Stuffs!  Big Smile

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, January 30, 2020 5:52 PM

Hmmm... I wonder if there are great trains named after great cigars...

While perhaps not what you were thinking of, The French PLM 241A 4-8-2s were known as cigars from their striking parabolic smokebox door casing,

Peter

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, January 30, 2020 1:42 PM

It's a horrid name! Do something about that Penny, if you're listening! 

How To Draw The Poop Emoji - YouTube

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSccuMj0VrQ

 

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, January 30, 2020 1:24 PM

rcdrye
The Cleveland football team is named after Paul Brown, its first coach in the All-America Football Conference (1946).

I know.  But you'd think that especially after having to be rebooted in the late Nineties they could have found a better name by this time... Smile

The other, I did not know ... shows what I know!

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 30, 2020 12:59 PM

Overmod
I have never quite understood how Clevelanders have put up with that evocative color so long.

The Cleveland football team is named after Paul Brown, its first coach in the All-America Football Conference (1946).

The St. Louis Browns were the AL franchise in St. Louis (Cardinals were and are NL).  Originally the Milwaukee Brewers (version 1), the Brown arrived in 1901 and left in 1953 to become the Baltimore Orioles - the first Browns team that Baltimore "stole".

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, January 30, 2020 12:10 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Avoid bringing up the color brown (and the related high school) to alumni of the various past and present high schools of the Chicago Catholic League.

I'd understand that for 'orange' ... but what is the connection with brown in Chicago?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, January 30, 2020 10:29 AM

Avoid bringing up the color brown (and the related high school) to alumni of the various past and present high schools of the Chicago Catholic League.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, January 30, 2020 10:06 AM

wjstix
A lot of folks don't realize baseball's St. Louis Cardinals got their name from the cardinal red uniforms they wore in the 19th century, not from the cardinal bird.

Not cardinal red uniforms ... cardinal red TRIM.  (They were the Perfectos at that point... Gilded Age organizational-history fans will relish the story of the grand Perfecto-Superba war and the resulting rise of the American League.)

Certainly preferable, every day in every way, to "Brown Sox" which is ominously plausible with only a slight historical change ... I have never quite understood how Clevelanders have put up with that evocative color so long. Big Smile

Hmmm... I wonder if there are great trains named after great cigars...

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, January 29, 2020 8:50 AM

M636C
West Sydney had yellow and black as their colours so became the "Tigers"...

A lot of folks don't realize baseball's St. Louis Cardinals got their name from the cardinal red uniforms they wore in the 19th century, not from the cardinal bird. The cardinal bird wasn't used on their uniforms until much later. 

Stix
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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 11:06 AM

As we used to say (Union, most certainly not League!) rugby is "a beastly game played by gentlemen"...

I am proud, I suppose, of getting my then-girlfriend to play women's rugby at Princeton in the early Eighties.  They had shirts made up that said "my body is a finely-honed engine of destruction" -- and were prepared to demonstrate.  Quite effectively.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 10:29 AM

No broken nose (our scrum half did it five times) but a broken wrist and five stitches over an eye after catching an elbow. And we didn't wear any armour, unlike gridiron football.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by M636C on Monday, January 27, 2020 11:30 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

Rugby League?!  What a disgusting aberration.  Disclaimer, I played a fair number of years as a hooker or wing forward for Rugby Union clubs in the Chicago Area.

 

My father used to say that Rugby Union was a game for gentlemen and Rugby League was a game for roughnecks.

When the English Rugby League team visited, some of the players looked like extras from a gangster movie. The Captain of the Australian Rugby Union team was often a lawyer, by contrast.

My father had played Rugby Union in his younger days. His nose was broken as a result. I never realised until I saw a photo of him as a teenager before the nose was broken and I barely recognised him in the photo.

I stuck with Soccer. It helped that the Rugby ground was in a harbourside park that was much harder to get to (we had to walk) while the Soccer ground was alongside a rail line adjacent to a station. We still walked to the ground but could ride home after the game. And I could watch the trains... (only once did a late running steam freight run by...)

Peter

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, January 27, 2020 3:44 PM

Too bad.....Zephyrs is a better name. There are several minor league teams with that name. 

Here's another but spelled with a 'K'.

 

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, January 27, 2020 3:03 PM

Re NFL names, there was a train called "The Viking" on C&NW.

A friend who lived for many years in Colorado said when they got an MLB team they had a contest as what the fans wanted to name the team. 1st was "Denver Bears", Bears being a long-standing minor-league baseball team name there. 2nd was "Colorado Zephyrs" (I could see orange and silver-trimmed uniforms with an entwined "CZ" on the caps!). 3rd was "Colorado Rockies". Apparently management had already decided on "Rockies" and expected that to win so just ended up using "Rockies" anyway.

Stix
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, January 27, 2020 12:10 PM

Rugby League?!  What a disgusting aberration.  Disclaimer, I played a fair number of years as a hooker or wing forward for Rugby Union clubs in the Chicago Area.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, January 26, 2020 11:29 AM

Happy Australia Day!

At least one express train served between Kowloon, Hong Kong to Guangzhou, Canton (now Guangdong) in the pre-war ear (1935) was named "Flying Dragon" but I don't recall any football team in British Hong Kong and Portuguese Macau had a name shared with named trains in the Greater China. I believe Peter know much better than I. One of the best football team in Hong Kong as well as East Asia in the 1950s was South China Athletic Association, local Hong Konger just call them "South China". Around the 1970s, Hong Kong's football teams continued to decline until recent years.

 "Flying Eagle" (Kowloon to Canton) of KCR powered by a Kitson 4-6-0. 

"In 1935, to improve the branding of the railway and provide distinction between the fast trains and the express trains, the four daily high-speed services were given names; Fei Chin – Flying Arrow, Fei Sing – Flying Star, Fei Ying – Flying Eagle and Fei Lung – Flying Dragon. These proved popular with passengers." 

https://industrialhistoryhk.org/kcrc-railway-british-section-3-early-years-1910-1940/

 Kitson 4-6-0, KCR

 

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, January 26, 2020 10:41 AM

Thanks for that M636C.

St. George Dragons ...now that's a team with a name I could get behind!  

There must be a pro level team somewhere in the Far East named Dragons. Green Dragons, Red Dragons, Yellow Dragons and so on.

That would make a great name for a HSR train or a old time string of heavyweights with a speedy steam locomotive up front. 

(An unknown to but a few... I've collected Dragon figures since my teens, have a magnificent huge birdcage full of Dragons ...some are real dandies) 

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