St.Thomas, Ont. and Jumbo with a Caboose

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, May 10, 2019 11:31 PM

AgentKid
Reminds me of something I read once, if CSX tried to make a name out of all of its predecessor roads, you couldn't fit it all on the side of a locomotive even if you used a typewriter sized font!

All you need is Chessie Family Lines, with additional dishes for Peake and the kids.

We can discuss adding purple and a graphic wave, etc, to the classic Chessie livery.

Heritage units could be fun ... remember, the 'originals' include a German 1-A-A-A-A-1 in ACL livery.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, May 10, 2019 11:16 PM

AgentKid

I proposed here once that I liked Canadian Northern. I also liked the idea of using the Northern Alberta Railway reporting mark to make the North American Railway.

Some else has snapped up the NAR reporting mark, around 5 years ago I started seeing brand new black tank cars with those initials.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by AgentKid on Friday, May 10, 2019 6:37 PM

SD70Dude
Grand Northern Inter-Transcontinental & Pacific Trunk Line Railway Company of Canada has a nice ring to it!

LaughBig Smile

Reminds me of something I read once, if CSX tried to make a name out of all of its' predecessor roads, you couldn't fit it all on the side of a locomotive even if you used a typewriter sized font!

I proposed here once that I liked Canadian Northern. I also liked the idea of using the Northern Alberta Railway reporting mark to make the North American Railway.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, May 10, 2019 3:58 PM

CASO! Did someone say CASO? Ok bring it on.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, May 10, 2019 11:33 AM

Miningman

Now what to do with Canadian Pacific .. some kind of CanAm or AmCan or Pan- something but after a merger, if that's possible. 

Too much thinking. 

I agree you have out-thunk yourself.

Canada Southern is the obvious choice!

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, May 10, 2019 11:32 AM

Why not use all of them?

Grand Northern Inter-Transcontinental & Pacific Trunk Line Railway Company of Canada has a nice ring to it!

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, May 10, 2019 10:06 AM

Consider some of the impressive names of CN predecessors:  Grand Trunk, Canadian Northern, National Transcontinental, Intercolonial, Grand Trunk Pacific.  Which one would you choose to replace Canadian National??

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, May 09, 2019 7:05 PM

Holy smoke, I didn't know there was a Coney Island elephant!

How does Mike come up with this stuff?

The only one I ever heard of was "Lucy, The Margate Elephant," a Jersey Shore landmark since 1881.  Never dreamed there was another one.

Anyway, here's Lucy's story...

https://weirdnj.com/stories/lucy-the-elephant 

  

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, May 09, 2019 1:54 PM

Elephant above the headlight and a Dog on the running board! My kind of folks!

GT 287 with an elephant atop the headlight. It is said many Jumbo engines (likely 4-4-0's assigned locally) had this carving. 
Workers and officials are all gathered for their photograph for this unknown occasion and date. Note the child and dog! 
This commemorates Jumbo the elephant killed September 15, 1885 in St.Thomas by GTR 88 on train number 151. 
Jim Parker Collection

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, May 09, 2019 12:15 PM

Wayne--.You are perfectly right about the Canadian Pacific. Leave it be, anything else would be so wrong. 

The CNR has a fine and proud and important history and did a magnificient job as an arms length Crown Corporation. It's day has passed now. Still think it should now be simply the Grand Trunk. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, May 09, 2019 11:42 AM

You know, I wouldn't change the name "Canadian Pacific,"  that's a grand old name with a lot of incredible history behind it. 

And the CP story is as epic as anything in railroad history.

"Stand fast, Craigallechie!"  What other railroad has a Scottish battle-cry as a motto?  You can almost hear the pipes and the claymores being drawn from their scabbards. 

As an aside, a "Highland Charge" executed by the "Black Watch" was the only thing that would send American Indian braves running in terror.  What does THAT tell you?

And I wouldn't worry about Americans being nervous over those CN locomotives being harbingers of an invasion from the north.  Most Americans don't pay attention to what's on the side of a diesel locomotive, any more than they're paying attention to the "Game of Thrones" sillyness going on in Washington right now. 

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, May 09, 2019 10:39 AM

Well there is precident with the White Pass and Yukon, and the Great White North made famous by Bob and Doug McKenzie is iconic, but the howls from the numerous politically correct crowd would make this an impossibility. 

OK name for a home pike but I wouldn't brag about it too much, least your home be torched. 

I will say what everyone is thinking though and that is Canadian National running down the centre of the USA down to the Gulf and elsewhere is a bit of a poke in the eye, a bit brash. Even though privatized now for some time it still has that association with government heavy handed ownership ( many Canukleheads still think it's government owned). 

Grand Trunk it should be, reflecting Railroading itself, sort of in the fine tradition of Union Pacific, with no ties to anything government. 

Now what to do with Canadian Pacific .. some kind of CanAm or AmCan or Pan- something but after a merger, if that's possible. 

Too much thinking. 

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 09, 2019 8:01 AM

SD70Dude
Seriously though, one of the government's conditions of CN's privatization was that the name must remain "Canadian National Railway Company".

Yet another reason why my beloved "Great White Northern" renaming will not see the light of day.

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, May 09, 2019 1:13 AM

Interesting. Or else what? The shares are on the free market. Theoretically the company could be bought by a series of shell companies ... aww never mind.

Some day they will see the light. 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, May 09, 2019 12:30 AM

Miningman

Yeah.. The Grand Trunk.  You know Canadian National could do a really smart thing and rename themselves the Grand Trunk Railway ( or Railroad) system wide. In this case that name means something, and the rose would smell sweeter. 

I imagine the Dude would object but I'll suggest the name change with a caveat just for him .. that a major captive mainline contained within Alberta and Saskatchewan be named the Canadian Northern, locomotives, cars and all, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Grand Trunk and a nod to history and free markets. 

Throw in internal shortlines named Northern Alberta and Edmonton, Yukon & Pacific and we just might have a deal!

Seriously though, one of the government's conditions of CN's privatization was that the name must remain "Canadian National Railway Company".

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 10:21 PM

And you know, the "Grand Trunk Railway" just sounds so "Imperial."

Even though some wags have said "The sun never set on the British Empire because God didn't trust 'em with the lights out!"   Wink

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 7:44 PM

Yeah.. The Grand Trunk.  You know Canadian National could do a really smart thing and rename themselves the Grand Trunk Railway ( or Railroad) system wide. In this case that name means something, and the rose would smell sweeter. 

I imagine the Dude would object but I'll suggest the name change with a caveat just for him .. that a major captive mainline contained within Alberta and Saskatchewan be named the Canadian Northern, locomotives, cars and all, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Grand Trunk and a nod to history and free markets. 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 7:34 PM

But even with all the change hype, it does have to be said I am somewhat in awe of a Canadian numismatic community that knows, and cites, the difference between an ES44DC and ES44AC on coinage.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 7:25 PM

The "Grand Trunk!" 

That's one way of returning the topic to Jumbo!  Whistling

I'm sorry, I'll go quietly...

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 7:19 PM

Found this fine old picture of a Grand Trunk 4-4-0 in St. Thomas. Long lean and lankey. Way back in the day.

CNR predecessor roads. 

GTR Standard 4-4-0 Added 340 in St.Thomas. 

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 7:54 PM

Oh, so THAT's what you meant by the "napkin!"  I was wondering.

Still, the evolution was interesting, but I like the old "Maple Leaf" herald the best.  The old, old herald with the moose is pretty cool too!

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 7:30 PM

Leave it to Mike to find 'the napkin'... 

https://www.logodesignlove.com/cn-logo-evolution

 

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 7:06 PM
The link to CN logo evolution says CN's second hundredth anniversary is coming up exactly 75 years after D-Day.
 
1919: Canadian National Railways
The name “Canadian National Railways” first appeared officially on December 20, 1918, when the Government authorised that term as a descriptive name for the various properties that made up Canadian Government Railways — principally, Canadian Northern, National Transcontinental and Intercolonial.
 
Six months later, on June 6, 1919, Parliament passed legislation to incorporate the Canadian National Railway Company Limited — and CN was born. The following year, the Grand Trunk Pacific was added to the line-up, giving the new railroad two transcontinental networks.
 
 
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 1:20 PM

Don't worry about Santa, he could buy and sell Bezos ten times over.

I have it on best authority, my grandmother went to school with him!

And she NEVER would have lied to me about something that important!  Wink

My God, don't even THINK about UP without a steam program!  But of course, the scary thing is, it could happen, it all depends who's fanny is in the CEO's seat.

Probably won't happen though, UP's been around since 1862 and still going strong, there aren't many companies here in the US that can say as much.  UP's proud of that, and steam's part of the heritage.

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 1:00 PM

Don't give Bezos any ideas! He could buy Santa, lock, stock and barrel. 

Just think if UP went the CN and Penn Central route maybe they wouldn't have the steam program at all. These things have power to them. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 12:49 PM

Thanks Vince!

You know, some things you change some things you don't.  Most people like a constant, some thing that's a "rock in the whirlpool" they can hold onto in a rapidly changing, confusing world.  It can be anything from a corporate logo of a brand (of anything) you like to that burger and ice cream place you went to as a kid and, God be praised, is STILL there when you go home to your old stompin' grounds.

"Progress is change, but change isn't always progress."

Imagine Santa Claus re-imaged into a clean-shaven Dockers-wearing urbanite who uses Amazon for deliveries instead of the sleigh. Or instead of a sleigh he uses an ATV and his bags are made by Gucci.  See where I'm coming from?

Wayne

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 12:41 PM

I stand 100% with Flintlock.

Even as a kid I saw that the route between the end of the C and far top of the N was nor served well by going all over the place like that and that it was a straight line and much shorter route. So I thought ' maybe there's a mountain or a lake in the way, but there couldn't be that many mountains and lakes'. 

I loved the green and gold and the Maple Leaf ' Serves all Canada'. That held up well especially on passenger cars and were very iconic and spoke of railroads.

Imagine if the Union Pacific went the wormy route and abandoned tradition and colours. Went all moderernized marketing wise. Thankfully they resisted all that pressure to do so and are perhaps the only one to stick with it.

Strangely enough I did like the CPR's multimark. Probably because of the colour coding on freight cars and applying it to everything, hotels, ships, trucks, communications, planes, you name it. Orange is beautiful, used to sing it all day long. 

Even they have seen the light and reverted somewhat to the Beaver even if it dosent show all that well. There is hope. 

The www on CN locomotives is ridiculous. We know, we know, we got it, a long time ago. Embarrassing really. 60 years now and still don't like the noodle. A pox on the noodle. Feh, bletch, pzzzz.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 12:40 PM

What you say is true 'Dude, can't argue with it, but compare the "noodle" with the classic herald on the caboose in Miningman's post of April 5th.

Which one would you rather see, or have?   

You see, I remember back in 1970 or so when a lot of American corporations updated logos they'd had since the 1920's-1930's to ones that were more sleek and modern.  It was a PR disaster!  The public hated them!  The then-existing Bell Telephone System's new "Bell" logo was compared to a Nazi helmet, for example.

Most, if not all, very quietly reverted to the old logos.

Of course, if the CN "noodle" is all most people remember it's another matter, but still... 

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