Most luxurious train on North American continent?

[Anonymous]

In the US, seems the most luxurious and prestigious passenger trains were, in no particular order:

1. Santa Fe's Super Chief
2. New York Central'sTwentieth Century Limited
3. Pennsylvania's Broadway Limited

In Canada:

1. Canadian Pacific's Canadian
2. Canadian National's Super Continental

Of course, I'm inviting other's opinions (especially those who differ)...

[jamesedwbradley]

A good case can be made for the Southern Ry. Crescent, ACL Florida Special, and Illinois Central Panama Limited. These were about the only other all-Pullman trains in the streamlined era. which also had dining and lounge equipment (PRR Pittsburger only had small lounge). Maybe the real question is the most luxurious among the 'second-rank' trains, also there's a distinction between overnight and day trains. Latter category would include NYC Empire State Express ( I once rode this w/ reserved coach seat in 1951 and spent most of trip in rear of observation, of course !), SP Daylight, ATSF El Capitan (OK, that one did run overnight also), and some others like DL&W Phoebe Snow, PRR-NH Senator, NH Merchants' Limited (used this in 1966 and it was still a good train, believe it or not). Certainly such 'prides of the line' as CB&Q Denver Zephyr, GN Empire Builder, UP's City trains, SAL Silver Meteor, B&O Capitol Limited need take a back seat to no one even though they did include coaches. Anyone else agree?
James E. Bradley Hawk Mountain Chapter N.R.H.S.

[jamesedwbradley]

Oh, yes, how could I forget the beautiful WABASH Blue Bird - even if I did fall asleep in the dome car after a wonderful dinner in the diner!
James E. Bradley Hawk Mountain Chapter N.R.H.S.

[passengerfan]

ARIZONA LIMITED

[espeefoamer]

Don't forget the Overland Limited,Sunset Limited,or the Golden State.[:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jamesedwbradley

A good case can be made for the Southern Ry. Crescent, ACL Florida Special, and Illinois Central Panama Limited. These were about the only other all-Pullman trains in the streamlined era. which also had dining and lounge equipment (PRR Pittsburger only had small lounge). Maybe the real question is the most luxurious among the 'second-rank' trains, also there's a distinction between overnight and day trains. Latter category would include NYC Empire State Express ( I once rode this w/ reserved coach seat in 1951 and spent most of trip in rear of observation, of course !), SP Daylight, ATSF El Capitan (OK, that one did run overnight also), and some others like DL&W Phoebe Snow, PRR-NH Senator, NH Merchants' Limited (used this in 1966 and it was still a good train, believe it or not). Certainly such 'prides of the line' as CB&Q Denver Zephyr, GN Empire Builder, UP's City trains, SAL Silver Meteor, B&O Capitol Limited need take a back seat to no one even though they did include coaches. Anyone else agree?
James E. Bradley Hawk Mountain Chapter N.R.H.S.

The Capitol Limited was all Pullman until it got consolidated with the Columbian, which was all coach in the middle 50's.

[Overmod]

Is there a reason nobody has mentioned the Santa Fe's de Luxe (of about 1911)? That's surely up there...

And seems to me the California Zephyr is at least the equal of many of the trains named so far...

[Anonymous]

AOE

[espeefoamer]

The Nacionales de Mexico had an all Pullman train which ran between Guadalajara and Mexico City.This train ran through at least through the late 1970s.It was called the El Tapatio. I saw it in Guadalajara on New Years morning of 1978,as some friends and I were waiting to catch the El Coasteno for Mexicali.

[passengerfan]

No one mentioned the all Pullman LARK or the CASCADE when it was All Pullman . When SP cared they put some of the finest streamliners on the road. When they stopped caring many of the same trains became ordinary and later even less then ordinary with the Automat cars in place of diners and lounge facilities became non-existant. I was fortunate to have ridden many of the SP trains before they gave up on passengers. And yes it was the SP that gave up on passengers and not passengers who gave up on the SP. I witnessed it first hand and watched competitor AT&SF continue to show how passenger trains were supposed to be operated. Many other railroads gave up on passengers as well MP, CRI&P and NYC come immediatly to mind.

[ben13]

The COAST DAYLIGHT WAS THE BEST TRAIN EVER!

[Anonymous]

I think when you try to determine "the most, the best, the greatest" etc, you must bear in mind the "era" from which you will make your choice. The amenities and services provided, i.e. barbershop, telephone/wire, gourmet dinning (menus), crystal/flatware/china, number of staff (porters, waiters, etc.) must also be considered. In my opinion, the quality and condition of the rolling stock (Budd, Pullman, Wagon-Lit, et al.) must be ncluded in the "mix." When the above and the particular "time frame" are indexed, you may conclude that there are, not one, but several "most luxurious" passenger trains to include from the early days of "varnish" to today's American Orient Express. I suppose we should just be grateful for having experienced the oppulence that once made "extra fares" really "extra" value, especially when we look at the generic alternatives offered today. From the earliest days of the A.T.S.F. when Fred Harvey Houses dotted the right-of-way until the termination of the Super Cheif (as an "extra fares" train), I would give the Santa Fe the edge for being the most consistently well maintained and staffed trains on the North American Continent. As for passenger comfort, the relatively flat geography through the mid-western plains and desert southwest plus the "high level" (bi-level) cars of the "El Capitan" would have little competition, even though it was not an all pullman consist. Oh well, just another opinion heard from the nostalgic generation.

[passengerfan]

I put ARIZONA LIMITED without explanation earlier, so here is my reasons why. The two consists operated with a heavyweight Baggage Crew Dormitory Car and a heavyweight 36-seat dining car supplied by Rock Island. Each consist after the two Rock Island cars in their first winter of operation consisted of two IMPERIAL series 4 Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room cars, two CASCADE 10-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom cars and each consist operated with a sleeper lounge observation with 2-Double Bedrooms 1-Compartment and 1-Drawing Room for a capacity of 9 with a Buffet and lounge with seating for 27. No other luxury train in the streamlined era only carried 93 passengers per trip. The first streamlined SUPER CHIEF 100 passengers if only one person occupied each upper and lower berth but if two persons occupied each the capacity was 132. For the 132 passengers they offered two lounges one seating 28 and one seating 14. in addition their was a 36 seat dining car. True the SUPER CHIEF had a barber but that was about the only difference. Remember the ARIZONA LIMITED was all room no sections at all. In the heavyweight era my vote for luxury travel would have to be the SANTA FE DE-LUXE nothing finer in the land.

[bowlerp]

If luxury is truly what you are asking, then I suggest the AOE is without peer, now or historically. I doubt any fare paying passengers of whatever era received more pampering or had more amenities available than the modern AOE. Add to that the sheer absolute posh luxury of the restored configuration of the AOE consist, then it would only be equalled by private varnish, not be anyone else's advertised scheduled train - just my personal opinion. Some folks may not want to count the AOE, for not being a particular railroad or a regularly scheduled run from point-to-point. If we discount the AOE, then the debate is wide open to any number of favored trains, including the Super Chief, the precursor California Limited, The 20th Century Ltd., and so forth. I cannot define luxury well enough to draw a distinction between them, but I would certainly include the beauty and scenery of the line on my personal list of "luxuries" that I would be willing to pay for to experience. Many railroads touted the quality of their dining experience. When I look at those old menus, as top drawer as they were to those long ago patrons, they do not match my more austere, healthy eating style today.

[Anonymous]

I have to go with the following
1- Super Chief
2-Broadway Limited
3- 20th Century Limited
4- ACL Champion

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bowlerp

Many railroads touted the quality of their dining experience. When I look at those old menus, as top drawer as they were to those long ago patrons, they do not match my more austere, healthy eating style today.

While today's eating style may be more healthy, it is far from the LUXURY of the bygone era. When one is thinking LUXURY, health is of next to no concern; bring on the calories, the carbs and the cholestorol and do it in mass quantities.

[espeefoamer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ben13

The COAST DAYLIGHT WAS THE BEST TRAIN EVER!

[:)][:D][8D][:)][:D][8D][:)][:D][8D][:)][8D][:)][:D][8D][:)][:D][8D][:)][:D][8D][:)][:D][8D][:)][:D][8D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by u6729csx

QUOTE: Originally posted by bowlerp

Many railroads touted the quality of their dining experience. When I look at those old menus, as top drawer as they were to those long ago patrons, they do not match my more austere, healthy eating style today.

While today's eating style may be more healthy, it is far from the LUXURY of the bygone era. When one is thinking LUXURY, health is of next to no concern; bring on the calories, the carbs and the cholestorol and do it in mass quantities.

And be sure to pass the cigars please.
Mitch

[Anonymous]

My vote for the top is a tie. The Century and the Broadway.

In the early sixties I worried what the NYC would call the Century after the year 2000. In 1967 I worried what colors the Century and Broadway would be painted after the PC merger. Now I just worry if there still will be passenger service.
Mitch

[Anonymous]

Although the AOE and similar type "tourist" trains may have excelled at conveying luxury to their patrons akin to a successful resort, would it not be a more suitable discussion to consider only trains that were by nature a conveyance between A and B rather than those "cruises to nowhere"?

In my few travels, I recall riding CPR's CANADIAN from Toronto to Vancouver in May of 1977. The train was not a museum piece, but impeccably serving in its work of moving people in Canada. From its gleaming stainless-steel 'Park Car' dome-sleeper-obs, to its red F-units (and Geep on the Mountain Div), to the engraved 'CPR' silver platter that the waiter served my steak on as we rolled downgrade from Kicking Horse Pass through the Spiral Tunnels into Field. Too bad the bas-relief Beaver icons had been removed from the car sides adjacent to each doorway. This was just at the beginning of VIA's existence, but they had not assumed operation of this train's service at that time.

D D Perry

[Anonymous]

I prefer hearing about trains run by the carriers myself. In an article in Passenger Train Journal some years ago about the American European Express, the subtitle was "Returning to a time that Never Was." For me, personally, the Europian overtones of the exterior are too fanciful, and spoil the streamlined nature of the equipment. I feel that the interiors are way overdone with every last item engraved, etched, or festooned. For its market, the train is fine, and I'm sure it's pleasing the clientel as a cruise ship. But for regular service I personally feel it's over the mark, and that price tag is a whopper.
Standard sleepers (or parlors) with a great lounge fore and aft, a well done diner, and you'd have it. I also like meeting the aquaintance of regular railroad crew members. The stories I've been told by them are better than a movie.
So the Century / Broadway are my ideals.
Mitch