What steam loco would you like to see back in excursion service?

[UP 4-12-2]

Upon further review, and after a little research, I guess it is somewhat unlikely we'll see Union Pacific 9000 under steam.

To get it to California, they ran it over Cajon Pass as a special move with a caboose and UP officials who were intimately familiar with it.  They had to move it at a walk through the curves near Summit with officials on the ground on hands and knees (some in suits) watching for problems (there are color photos of the event), and it did derail briefly...they gingerly backed it up, onto the tracks, and continued onward without incident.

According to Kratville and Bush's The Union Pacific Type, Vol. 2, in a very classy gesture, the Union Pacific men who were with her let noted rail historian Gerald M. Best move her for the last time under her own steam power (after they killed the fire), to spot her for the SP to pick up (cold) and move her to her present location.  There are photos of her in their book as the last steam was expiring.

Now, I'm sure with the subsequent realignments over Cajon Pass, during the late 60's and more recently, that the curvature is improved--but I do not know what the curvature has to be now to run such an engine.

In 1926, UP apparently felt it could negotiate 17-degree terminal curves, but I thought Cajon Pass was closer to 10-degree curves (or is nowadays).

So, it may be limited to nearly 10-degree curves--which would limit its use as an excursion engine, even assuming the proper 3-cylinder maintenance could be achieved.  Since all the people who knew anything about servicing 3-cylinder locomotives are either very old, or long gone, it is unlikely we'll get to see a 4-12-2 or 4-10-2 run again.

I hope that somehow I'm wrong about that.

John

[GTW4070]

I just heard that N&W 611 may return to service, now that 261 has apparently been sold. The Friends of the 261 are talking to VMT and NS about it.

Other locomotives to consider:

PM 1225 (now officially out of service), Frisco 1522, NYC 3001and GTW 4070 - which at the time of its "retirement" in 1990 may have had more years of service than any large mainline or branch line rod driven locomotive up till that point in time.

The 4070, co-star of the baseball movie "The Natural", worked from 1918 till 1960, then 1968 till 1986, and finally 1988 thru half of 1990. That's over 60 years of service. Not bad for an old girl.

[twhite]

UP 4-12-2

Union Pacific 9000

It's been maintained in excellent condition at the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds, and steamed to that location without assistance.

It would be really neat to see and hear such an ususual 3-cylinder engine in service again.

AND

It is fast enough and capable of passenger train service.  The UP 4-12-2's were used in "emergency" passenger service on occasion (I'd love to see a photo or to know what trains they pulled).

John

John: 

I'm not generally a fan of UP steam (sorry 'bout that ), but I've got to agree with you on that 9000.  There's something absolutely unique and handsome about her, and I'm with you.  I wouldn't mind seeing that 3-cylinder beauty under steam again at all. 

Of course, I'm still wondering how she got into California in the first place, over all of those nasty curves on the ex-LA&SL and Cajon Pass.  She must be a LOT more flexible than she looks, LOL! 

But she IS a beauty!

Tom

[UP 4-12-2]

Union Pacific 9000

It's been maintained in excellent condition at the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds, and steamed to that location without assistance.

It would be really neat to see and hear such an ususual 3-cylinder engine in service again.

AND

It is fast enough and capable of passenger train service.  The UP 4-12-2's were used in "emergency" passenger service on occasion (I'd love to see a photo or to know what trains they pulled).

John

[4447SPGS4]

N&W #611

[wrawroacx]

I would also anwser, All Of The Above. I would also, add in the NYC Hudsons, Mohawks, and Niagra's.

[BoostedWRX]

 My answer would be all of the above as well! But if I had to pick one I would pick J. Big Boys have been my favorite since I was a well a little boy.

[jumper]

I'd go for camelback - DL&W 952, any of the Reading T1's, CN 6218 and NW 611. 

[tbdanny]

 I'd like to see the C&O W-1 built - just to see if it can be done.

[bigduke76]

 i'd like to see T&P 610 back in service. i made a special trip ack to cincinnatti from tacoma WA to ride behind it back in the early '70's only to find out it had broken down and CPR 4-6-4 was substituting.  what a letdown!  -big dukr

[John Krug]

RDG #2101 but actually I would prefer #2124 (on display at Scrantron).  Having ridden and chased many of the Iron Horse Rambles, I have a soft spot for these beauties.

JAK

[LIRR Agent Retired]

Second choice -  LIRR G-5  35 or 39

 

 

[LIRR Agent Retired]

Any READING T-1   2101 or 2124

[Lionmaster]

 Since I live in PA my first choice would be 2124 not 2101 but given that 2101 may be in better condition than my vote would go to it.

 

3rd Choice N&W 611..

[PRRinFlorida]

Of those listed, I would like to see either C&O #614 or N&W #611.  The Northerns (or Greenbriers in the C&O's case) provide the right balance of power, speed and size for excursion engines.  Personally, I would also include K4 #1361 (although it looks as if this project is dead right now even after all the money and time that's been invested in it).

[locomatt63]

WOW, what a question, there are so many that deserve to be brought back to life, I agree with another person in the forum, that my "dream" locomotive to see in steam again, would be the C&O Allegeny residing in the Henry Ford Museum, I have seen and felt the engine, and in the firebox you can still feel a few pieces of coal that are in the ash pan! Now back to reality, my vote would be to return the C&O Greenbrier 614 that Ross Rowland has in storage in I think NJ.

[OJLAR]

WITHOUT A DOUBT THE UP BIG BOY SHOULD BE PUT BACK OUT FOR EVERYONE TO SEE IT IN ACTION.  IT WAS THE BIGGEST BADDEST STEAM ENG EVER BUILT.  COULD PULL A 5 MILE LONG TRAIN ON LEVEL GROUND.

GO UP

[notelvis]

First choice would be Southern's 4501............but the Atlanta & West Point 290 deserves to be on the list too!

[dkicker]

 4294 by all means, since it is the last one in existence.

[CAZEPHYR]

waltersrails

All of the above and every steamer ever made which iknow is impossible.

My favorite would be IC 2500

I have to agree almost any locomotive that is rebuilt and runs is great, but the IC 2500 would be really great!

I have been on the 2500 several times and most of the 2500 series when they were still in active service.  They were rebuilt from the 2900 series USRA heavy 2-10-2's and could really roll a train. 

 

This is the 2502 northbound along route 45 on the Banana Train in Illinois.

CZ 

 

[shortlinejoe]

I agree with "carknocker". The situation with SR4501 is not that good, $$$$$ wise, to put her back in safe running condition. The TVRM, Tennessee Valley Railroad Musium, says it will take about 1-mil to rehab the lady after the Sou basically wore her out on excursions all over the mid-west and east to the South. I do credit the Southern with bringing back great interest in steam locos and excursions with the 4501. Until the money is raised she will remain on display under a shed next to the TVRM Shops, and number 610 will continue to show the steam on local and restricted excursions.

[daveklepper]

Brand new boilers are not inexpensive!

[G5&H10Guy]

#39 is presently undergoing restoration at the Strasburg shops. Having grown up on Long Island, the G5s and the H9/10s are two of my favorite engines. #35's prgress can be viewed at the the following website www.RMLI.us/Rmli/welcome.html and will be hopefully returned to the museum in Riverhead. I believe #35 is in Oyster Bay at another museum and may also be restored. I too would like to see these running again

The bolier shell steel problems can be solved by ising a higer strenght fine grain steel such as ASME SA-516 grade 70 for the pressure parts. The steels used when these engines were built are pure garbage compared to what is available today.

[Great Western]

I understand that there is some doubt about Milwaukee Road 261 being operational in the future.  As this loco has run Charters  in the past, I believe and has been granted tracks access,  this would be my choice.  

[in_eden]

If I had like $10,000,000 to burn, the B&O 5300 P7 "President Washington" residing at the B&O Museum in Baltimore. The Pres. is in rough shape, and would need pretty much rebuilt from the rails up... but if you could get 5300 up, along side PRR 1361, it would be a stunning sight!

Second would be one of the two NYC Mohawks.

(shame on the NYC and B&O for saving so few examples of their very fine steam fleet. B&O had a series of beautiful 4-8-2 locomotives that were all scrapped... along with every last EM-1... tragedy)

Hopefully Jerry Jacobson in Ohio will get Nickel Plate 763 back under steam someday, as he plans to do, seeing 763 double heading with her sister 765 will be amazing!

I'm for the rehab and running of ANY steam loco. I'm from the Cleveland area, and the last few falls Jacobson's former Canadian Pacific G5 Pacific 1293 has "guest starred" for the Cuyahoga Valley line and drawn HUGE crowds to see the engine run. -this after CVSR basically broke the GT 4070 that now lies in pieces in the former B&O roundhouse in Cleveland!

Public interest is there to see steam running, and wouldn't it be great to see some of these engines at a gallop out on a class 1 railroad rather than taking a 25 mph stroll on a light line?

For that matter... NS... un-mothball the 611 and get her back out on the road where she belongs!

[Texas Zepher]

This would be a much more fun question if we didn't know that #611 and #1218 had been purposely put out of excursion service and purposely "sabotaged" so they couldn't be brought back. 

I eliminate the UP #5511 and  #4014, the SP #5021 and #4294, and the T&P #610 for the very reason the UP has NOT already restored a Big Boy.  There are simply not enough places it could run an excursion to.  Track changes in western Wyoming prevent it from going that way.  Even if it could where could it be turned?  The turntables are gone and most wyes are too tight.  Many places have trouble with the 844.  It was banned from King Street in Seattle after they turned it there in ummm 1990? They were lucky not to put it on the ground and basically had to rebuild the track in the wye.

Of the remaining I think I would have to go with the GN.  While the 2584 is one of the best looking Northerns out there, I really wish one with a more typical GN Belpaire fire box was available.  

Hudsons are my favorite loco class, but the C&O wasn't really one of them.  It was converted from a Pacific and the streamlining was, in my opinion, almost the worst ever.  If we are going to resurrect a Hudson how about CB&Q  #3003 currently on display in Burlington IA.    OR not Hudsons but some sweet looking  locomotives how about  AT&SF 3416 in Great Bend KS., or AT&SF Prairie  #1819 in Lamar CO.  The six axle trucks on the tenders really give them a massive look.

 

 

[Robt. Livingston]

My personal favorite is LIRR 39, a 4-6-0 in the PRR G5s pattern.  It will probably be back in service some day, as millions (?) have already been expended.  Seems the current FRA regs require a stronger boiler shell than the old engines were actually designed for; under these rules, you cannot run old steamers at full design boiler pressure with the original, as-designed boiler, notwithstanding any aging or defects.  And PRR practice was to use "dirty" steel, with inclusions, laminations, and stringers (flaws in the steel). 

PRR 1361 was evidently ready to go back in steam when the FRA upgraded the regs, required extensive boiler rebuilding around the crown sheet.

I support the restoration of any and all steam locomotives, and exemption from any air pollution rules.  I wouldn't support a return to the cinder filled air of yesterday, but for excursions, education, and fun, let's make a little smoke.  In the scheme of things, it is best.   

[jefelectric]

 You will never see any of the locomotives in the RR Museum of PA running as long as they own them.  The costs are way to high and there is nowhere to run them.  Cosmetic restoration of the four locomotives setting out front and the observation car Tower was recently estimated at 6.5 million.  If the money were available, it would take aproximately 13 years in the museum shops.

[daveklepper]

I amy have replied earlier, but certainly the PRR K4, the New Yor Central Mowhawk, and definitely the N&W J.    But for the Brits, Pendeness Castle, John Greton's locomotive and the fastest of Great Western steam.   A modern high-speed 4-6-0.