I believe I may have ridden this sleeper northbound coming back from a job in Greensboro. It laid over in Greensboro to give both Winston-Salem and Greensboro passengers a decent time to board, around 9 or 10pm in Winston-Salem and still before midnight in Greensboro, before being picked up by the train from Ashville. I believe I worked on the acoustics of the First Presbyterian Church in Greensboro at the time of the installation of its Holtkamp organ.
Orit may have been a C.B.Fisk organ.
Compare the operation of the Asheville Special in 1945 and some time (I do not know just when) after 1947. Look at a map of the Southern Railway in North Carolina.
Johnny
In other words, northboiund, the Ashville Specvial bypassed Winston Salem.
daveklepper In other words, northboiund, the Ashville Specvial bypassed Winston Salem.
We have a winner! Until some time after November 1947, the Asheville Special was combined with the Aiken-Augusta Special in Salisbury. Later, the combining took place in Greensboro--after the train had passed through Winston-Salem.
AmI up, or who?
Yes, Dave you are the winner. You realized that at the time the Asheville Special did not go through WInston-Salem, but through Salisbury--and so could not pick a sleeper up in Winston-Salem.
Time for breakfast.
In the summer of 1950, I rode a regularly scheduled train using steam power and all-steel, roller-bearing, open-platform coaches. I believe this was the only operation meeting this description wholly in the USA and/or standard guage in North Amverica at the time. Name the railroad, end-points, and character of the operation. I rode the train on the second half of an unsual two-railroad interline ticket. The first half covered the entire mainm-line end-to-end points of the originating unusual railroad. Any guesses as where I bought the ticket and what made it so unuusal? Transferring from one railroad to the other did require a short walk.
Very interesting link; ..grim, but very cool
The`locomotifve that hauled my train with three of these cars in this service was designed for freight service and generally used in that service. Heating was via a coal stove, but I bwelieve lighting was a-la-commuter cars, from a head-end gnerator on the locomotive. Seats were salkover black or dark-grey leather.
Teh railroad hosted passengers service elsewhere, interline, with parlors, diners, and sleepers. Bit this coach-only operation had no direct same-ralroad conenction with that more prestigious passenger service, which is a rout that sitll has passengers service, lapsed only for a time after 1 May 1971.
Scranton to Carbondale on the D&H?
(And if it was indeed one of the four daily trains, did you get to Scranton via Laurel Line?)
This raises another question: There was something else about the Scranton-Carbondale service that I thought was very unusual for a local. While we are thinking of interurbans -- what was the last interurban railroad (and the operating endpoints) that offered that service?
You are correct on all counts. The D&H coaches may have been wood originally, but they appeared to be steel, and many systems, including some long distance coaches with modern reclining seas and very modern looking interiors on the AT&SF, did steel-clad old wood coaches. They were arched roof, Harriman-coach style, not Northwestern and LIRR style. Yes. I had made a continiuous trip, Nanicoke - Willkbarre - Scranton - Carbondale, streetcar, interurban, then steam with an elephent-eared, wide-firebox 2-8-0/
Most commuter railroads pick up at various local stops and deliver to a cnetral city station or two or three such stations, donwtown. The D&H trains mostly picked up at the two city stops in the morining and delivered to the sites of various mines at stops along the way, doing the revere in the evening. Most of my fellow passengers were miners.
The South should still be considered an iniiterurban with its South Bend airport terminal as one and its going onto IC - now CN trckage rights in the Kennsington neighborhood of Chicago, to a downtown passenger terminal at as Randolph Street as the other.
The last interurban abandonment I know of was the either the North Shore,Chicago - Milwaukee via Skokie Valley and the Branch to Mundeline, or the Waterloo Ceder Falls and Northern, with Ceder Rapids - Waterloo and Waterloo - Waverly as the two interurban passenger routes, and WAterloo - Ceder Falls operated by a streetcar.
Returning to the Scranton-Carbondale locals: There was something else about the Scranton-Carbondale trains: Three of the four daily trains had a consist that contained something I thought very unusual for a local service of that length, but the service provided by that something was actually provided on only two of them.
The question is: what was the last interurban railroad (and the operating endpoints) that offered that service?
Reasonable guess- RPO service; last interurban RPO was on Pacific Electric between LA and San Bernadino.
That's it; take it away!
Never done this before- OK, modern day question- This railroad was purchased, somewhat recently, by 3 native tribes! who got together and with some federal funding, it is now 100% owned and operated by native folk. They run freight and passenger service and also feature a scheduled mixed. What was the former railroad that they purchased it from? What is the new name of the Railway, and where does it run from and what is its terminus.
I did not know that the D&H provided Carabondale - Scranton RPO service in 1950, beccause it was not ont he train I rode. I think the service may have been reduced to only two round trips each day, one morning and one evening, and possibly the RPO had gone by then. All we had were three of the openh-platform coaches plus the 2-8-0 up front.
I had misunderstood the question, and thought you asked for the last interurban period.
I am unsure of the exact name, but it is something like, Toronto, Ontario, and North Bay. I remember it as the railroad that used ex-TTE (Trans "European Express) articulated trains for passenger service after they had been replaced with electrification, Paris - Brussels - Amsterdam, a round 1960. I think it now provides excursion service, Poler Bear Express, and one can ride it north and stay overnight in a caboose, from wha I rmember. If someone gives the exact answer, he or she is the winnner.
Hello Dave, ...no, wrong province. What you are referring to is the Ontario Northland RR, named so after WWII, previously named the Temiskaming and Northern Ontario. They did have the TEE trainset and its was in use for many years. It replaced standard heavyweights, lightweights, sleepers and diners. I took that train to my college in Haileybury many many times. The train was the Northland, discontinued now four years ago. Caused quite a hoopla when they killed it. In the end they were running ex GO commuter coaches, pretty sad. The ONR has experienced very difficult times and is fighting for its life. The line up to Moosonee on James Bay is the only access for many small communities and is the route of the Polar Bear Express, which still runs. You can flag stop the train anywhere you want all the way up to Moosonee, like hailing a taxi! It is what keeps the ONR alive, subsidized by the Ontario government, because it's the only service for food and supplies for several communities, way up there. Freight along its main line to North Bay, handed off to CP and CN from the West has been largely diverted onto their own lines. Last I heard they were down to one freight a day in each direction to CN connections.
However, not even close with the railroad in question.
I think you are describing Temiskaming & Northern Ontario/Ontario Northland, but I can't find any record of 'native ownership' for them.
There are two: http://tshiuetin.net/index_an.html and http://www.krcrail.ca/
“Transport Canada’s Remote Passenger Rail Program (RPRP) offers subsidies for the operation of passenger service where rail is the only means of surface transportation. The RPRP currently supports two railways that are operated by First Nations groups — Keewatin Railway Company in northern Manitoba and Tshiuetin Rail Transportation which operates between Quebec and Labrador.”
Interesting article about Tshiuetin
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/schefferville-train-a-vital-link-to-life-in-quebec-s-north-1.2956267
Might be another First Nations railway coming up, with help from Keewatin.
http://www.saultstar.com/2016/05/02/stakeholders-group-awaits-word-from-cn-rail
Keewatin Rairway is correct. It runs from The Pas, Manitoba ( pronounced "The Paw", like a dogs paw, its a French word) to Lynn Lake, Manitoba. It is an ex CN line, later run by the Hudson Bay Railway, and the three Native Bands bought this "branch" from the HBR. The HBR itself runs from The Pas all the way up to Churchill, a port on Hudsons Bay, famous for its polar bears. At Halloween, each year, when the kids go out, they are accompanied and watched over by helicopters spotting for polar bears! They wander into town frequently.
I'm taking the freshman class on our annual geology field school to Flin Flon, Manitoba, all this week, returning on Friday. It's a 5 hour road trip on an up and down gravel road from our college here in Northern Saskatchewan.. Looking forward to seeing the HBR in Flin Flon and the switching operations at the large yard at Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting.
I had mentioned the Keewatin Railway and its origins earlier in the day on another thread "My computer has been bugged" at 4:27 and was worried that I had earlier posted the answer to the question.
OK Wanswheel, it's your question.
“The First Tycoon” was a director of this railroad, which a later tycoon’s grandson much later decided to purchase. In 1966, it became the first component of an agency whose nickname evoked Charlemagne.
Hint: The nickname was a play on words.
Thanks for that Wanswheel...it made a very difficult and arduous trip, by North American and modern day standards at least, seem a bit more worth it. Five hours on a very soft up and down twisty gravel road with no services whatsoever, with high spirited 1st year college students, is enough to try anyone. Kudo's to the Ford 15 passenger van, loaded with supplies. So we made it. The reason for mentioning Flin Flon at all is that the former CN, now HBR, services this major "branch" off the "mainline" that runs to Hudsons Bay, although it could be argued that it is the line to tidewater on Hudson Bay that is the branch and the main terminates here. Weather is spectacular. I'll take some pics at the museum of the railroad equipment and get them posted sometime next week.
Great question...have to ponder on that one.
PS- Bobby Clarke, the great Philadelphia Flyer's Captain, came from Flin Flon...one of his famous quotes was " Saskatchewan is so flat that if climb a ladder in Flin Flon, Manitoba, you can see right across the whole province to Alberta" ( not exact quote, going by memory) ....Well, maybe, except nowadays there is a Walmart in the way!
The man who made the decision to buy this railroad didn’t spend a dime of his own money. He attained the position to buy by defeating his predecessor, a president of the Union Pacific.
Ok, I give up, the answer is LIRR. New Question: Who did John D. Rockefeller’s grandson appoint to run the Metropolitan Commuter Transportation Authority?
Excerpt from The First Tycoon by T. J. Styles (2009)
Also in March [1844], another corporate delegation visited Vanderbilt—this one from the Long Island Railroad, now nearing completion to its eastern terminus, the village of Greenport. They had discovered, they told him, that the New England railroads across the Sound refused to supply a connection to Boston “without the concurrence of the steamboat proprietors connected with such railroads.” As negotiations wound on, the corporation invited him to join the grand festivities that marked the opening of the line on July 29 and 30. Vanderbilt and some five hundred dignitaries, including the mayors of New York and Brooklyn, rode in the first set of trains to make the ninety-five mile journey from Brooklyn to Greenport. In August, he closed a deal to sell the railroad the Cleopatra, the Worcester and the New Haven for $120,000 in railroad stock and $125,000 in bonds. He joined the board of directors, and was named to the three-man committee that managed its steamboat affairs.
1954 NY Times articles about Governor Dewey's plan for the LIRR, pages 1 and 38
http://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1954/06/10/83338640.html?WT.mc_ev=click&pageNumber=1
http://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1954/06/10/83338924.html?WT.mc_ev=click&WT.mc_c=&pageNumber=38
Excerpt from Time magazine, Dec. 31, 1965
Apart from its archaic title, the 343-mile Long Island Rail Road had never earned much claim to distinction. It will have next month. Then, after a score of years of financial troubles, the creeping, creaking L.I.R.R. will become the first major commuter line in the U.S. to come under state ownership.
The Long Island's owner, the Pennsylvania Railroad, last week happily accepted $10 million as a down payment for the $65 million sale to New York State's six-month-old Metropolitan Commuter Transportation Authority.
I'd figured out that it was likely Nelson and LIRR (from brute-force examination of public-money acquisitions in 1966, really - I can show you the dated browser trail if you don't believe it) except that buying it from PRR didn't seem to fit the terms of the question -- and I couldn't for the life of me figure out what the Charlemagne reference could possibly be. What is it? (I'm already getting the Advil ready to help with the groaning... ;-} )
Feb. 12, 1970. “Gov. Nelson Rockefeller puts his arm around Mr. X, Chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, after the MTA chairman signed a lease Feb. 12 to operate Stewart AFB as a general aviation facility. Despite demands for the resignation of the MTA chairman, resulting from an increase in fares on New York City subways and the Long Island Railroad, Rockefeller has indicated he will ride out the storm with Mr. X, one of his closest friends and advisors.”
MTA News, Oct. 17, 2014
Mr. X, the first chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and a chief proponent of the Second Avenue Subway project, has died in Florida. He was 101.
Mr. X was appointed chairman of the fledgling agency – then known as the Metropolitan Commuter Transportation Authority -- in 1965 by New York Gov. Nelson Rockefeller. A well-known advocate of public transportation, Mr. X was key to the expansion of transit options in the New York metropolitan area during his tenure at the MTA and his later work as head of the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey.
“Mr. X was a legend in the field of public transportation and an inspiration for everyone who understands that mass transit is the engine that powers New York,” said MTA Chairman and CEO Thomas F. Prendergast. “His vision of how an integrated transportation system can improve the region, and his skill in turning that vision into reality, have made life better for millions of our customers every day. We at the MTA send our deepest condolences to his family, and remember his service fondly.”
Mr. X was born in Buffalo, N.Y., on Nov. 8, 1912, and attended schools in upstate New York, including Syracuse University, where he graduated in 1934. He received a doctorate from New York University in international law and diplomacy. He later became a professor and dean at NYU, where he established what is now NYU’s Wagner Graduate School of Public Service. He met Rockefeller two years before the latter became governor of New York, and became his private secretary in 1958.
Under the Rockefeller administration, Mr. X helped set up the Tri-State Regional Transportation Commission, which was created as the transportation group to serve the commuting needs of New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. In 1965, Mr. X had been the governor’s representative at negotiations to purchase the Long Island Rail Road from the Pennsylvania Railroad. Mr. X served as the head of the MTA from March 1968 to April 1974, when he became chairman of the Port Authority.
The MCTA became the MTA in 1967 after the governor gained voter approval on a bond issue and legislative support to form the agency. The MTA assumed control of public transport agencies and eventually took over privately run commuter lines as well. During Mr. X’s tenure, the MTA created the Metro-North Railroad by acquiring separate commuter lines.
With Mr. X at the helm of the agency, the MTA embarked on a number of ambitious improvement and capital projects, such as new subway lines in Queens and the Second Avenue Subway. In one farsighted move, the agency built a two-level rail tunnel under the East River at 63rd Street – one level now carries an expansion of the F Subway subway lines, and the other is being used for the East Side Access project to bring Long Island Rail Road trains into Grand Central Terminal.
The elevated transit lines that ran along Manhattan’s East Side began closing in the 1930s, with the Third Avenue elevated line closing in 1955. Yet with the city’s economy booming after World War II and the elimination of the elevated lines, commercial buildings and residential developments increased in the area and led to a need for more transit options. “You can’t go on building office buildings, apartment buildings, without planning for adequate transit,” Mr. X said in proposing the Second Avenue Subway.
When the Second Avenue elevated line shuttered in 1942, a subway replacement had been promised, and Mr. X declared that it was time to start construction in 1972. He presided over its groundbreaking at 103rd Street and Second Avenue on Oct. 27, 1972. At the time, construction cost $1 billion, according to the New York Times. The project was halted five years later due to New York City’s fiscal crises, but resumed in 2007. Nearly 40 years later and thanks to Mr. X’s forward thinking, his dream of a Second Avenue Subway is becoming reality. The MTA estimates the first phase of Second Avenue Subway will open for service by the end of 2016.
William John Ronan ... oh no, you couldn't possibly make that pun!
But yes, I suppose it was wholly Ronan in the Empire State.
Congratulations Overmod, you’ve earned your tern.
Excerpt from NY Times, Oct. 17, 2014
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/nyregion/william-j-ronan-architect-of-the-metropolitan-transportation-authority-dies-at-101.html
William J. Ronan, the architect and first chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and one of the most powerful officials in the modern history of New York State, died on Wednesday at his home in West Palm Beach, Fla. He was 101…
With the blessing of Gov. Nelson A. Rockefeller, whom he long served as a close aide and adviser, Dr. Ronan engineered the state’s takeover of the Long Island Rail Road and then outmaneuvered Robert Moses, the master builder of highways, bridges and parks, to secure the takeover of the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority and the New York City Transit Authority.
That move took effect in 1968 with the creation of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which now runs the New York City region’s subways, buses and commuter railroads. The agency allowed for highway tolls to subsidize all three, guaranteeing a bountiful stream of money that remains the linchpin of the region’s mass transit financing. So encompassing was Dr. Ronan’s influence and the authority’s scope that critics called it the “Wholly Ronan Empire.”
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