wjstix wrote: If you get serious about iron ore railroads, you'll probably want to get the two Iron Ore books recently put out, one covers MN and the other WI-MI.
Great stuff Stix! I will look these up, cheers....
The Great Northern dieselized the Fast Mail initially with EMD FTs followed by F-3s and F-7s. After it was combined with the Western Star in its final years it operated with EMD SDP40s and and SDP45s.
An all mail train named the Pacific Zip operated between Chicago and Seattle for several years using F45s and SD45s. This train was an all Piggyback mail train with trucking companies wanting to pay for this premium service welcome. This train operated over the GN and CB&Q. Later BN.
passengerfan wrote: The Great Northern dieselized the Fast Mail initially with EMD FTs followed by F-3s and F-7s. After it was combined with the Western Star in its final years it operated with EMD SDP40s and and SDP45s. An all mail train named the Pacific Zip operated between Chicago and Seattle for several years using F45s and SD45s. This train was an all Piggyback mail train with trucking companies wanting to pay for this premium service welcome. This train operated over the GN and CB&Q. Later BN.
I always think it's interesting that in the sixties it wasn't uncommon to see several loaded piggyback flats stuck on the tail end of a passenger train. If someone modelled that you'd think they were being "Thumbz" from the NMRA Bulletin cartoon or something.
JanOlov wrote:Great stuff fellas! Which were the big ore railroads besides the DM&IR?
While not generally considered an "Ore Road" the Pennsy actually carried more ore than many of the "Ore roads". Pennsy carried ore from Cleveland to Youngstown, Pittsburg, Wheeling, Steubenville and many other mills in Western PA, Northern WV and Eastern Ohio. Additionally there was a fairly famous move of ore that ran from Erie to Mount Carmel PA where it was turned over to the Lehigh Valley for delivery to Bethlehem Steel. Ore was also carried from Cleveland to Steelton and Harrisburg PA. Foreign ore was unloaded in Pennsy's facility in Philadelphia and hauled west to Coatesville, Steelton, Harrisburg, and quite a bit was hauled all the way across the state to Pittsburgh.
Bessemer & Lake Erie was used by US Steel as a conveyor to bring ore from Lake Erie into the US Steel mills around Pittsburgh.
The Reading also had considerable ore business. They carried ore from various mines, Grace and Cornwall being two of the majors, to the Bethlehem Steel plants in Bethlehem and Lebanon. Ore unloaded at the Reading's Port Richmond facility in Philadelphia was hauled to Bethlehem, Conshohocken, Phoenixville, Pottstown, Harrisburg and a number of other minor mills.
As the steel buisness consolidated many of the smaller mills purchased ingots from the majors and a good amout of ingots were hauled. This continues today where Ingots from countries of the former Soviet Union are unloaded at the former PRR facility in Philadelphia and hauled west to Steelton and Pittsburgh to be rolled.
Of course there was the Kaiser Steel ore line out west that was known for its GE U-Boats.
There were some less known ore roads down in Alabama, I will have to let others tell about them.
Thanks for the info JonathanS!
Ore trains in the West: Utah
I have no idea if there's any activity today, but Union Pacific used to move iron ore from a mine connected to the Cedar City branch, probably taking it up to the USS facility near Provo.
The only time I saw it was in 1969. After getting off #6 at Lund (the junction of that branch with the main, and jumping-off point for tours of the National Parks), I was waiting for #5 to arrive in the other direction so that the shuttle bus would haul me to Cedar City. During the delay, I saw a pretty good show of ore-hauling.
Perhaps someone else more familiar with the area can bring this story up to date.
Ore trains beyond our borders:
In Australia, the Pilbara ore haulers handle tonnages that make DMIR look like a small-time operation.
In Brazil, there are two sizable operations, both are subsidiaries of CVRD. EF Vitoria a Minas is the well-known meter-gauge operation (home of the DDM45's) and EF Carajas is a broad-gauge railroad that operates in Brazil's Northeast.
What's a silk train?
First time I've been to this forum..I like it! I'll be back!
Bill Field
Modeling St. Louis 1960 - I know exactly where the MoPac Barrett Tunnel is.
onebiglizard wrote: What's a silk train?First time I've been to this forum..I like it! I'll be back!Bill FieldModeling St. Louis 1960 - I know exactly where the MoPac Barrett Tunnel is.
Welcome Aboard, onebiglizard!!Silk trains were high priority express trains in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. They usually ran on expedited schedules {akin to the crack passenger trains of the day}, because their cargo was a precious and delicate commodity. In many ways, they were the pioneers of the "unit train" concept we take fore granted today; a single commodity, shipped on a fast reliable schedule that avoided all the hazards of "normal" {ie, loose or single-car} railroading like yards, classification, etc.
Sadly, this particular source of rail traffic was easy prey for the emerging trucking {and for a time, airline freight} industries, which is why we no longer have them.
In the 1920's Great Northern's 4-8-2 "Marathon" earned it's name by making the entire run from Seattle to St.Paul with a train of silk from Japan. A steam engine making that long a run was unheard of, but by not changing engines they made the run in record time.
Silk decays rapidly, so it needed to be shipped in express reefers and gotten to it's intended customer ASAP to avoid it's deterioration. Silk trains usually had top priority, on the Great Northern the Empire Builder would even be put 'in the hole' to allow a silk train to race by.
jimrice4449 wrote: Finally, Bob Fryml could have save the worry about those postal clerks w/ guns by just using the mail slot next to the door which was a feature of all RPOs
Finally, Bob Fryml could have save the worry about those postal clerks w/ guns by just using the mail slot next to the door which was a feature of all RPOs
Jim:- The envelope was too large and too thick to fit through the slot, and there was no way for me to hand the envelope up to the clerks because the platforms, of the mail and express tracks, in Chicago Union Station, on both sides of The Milwaukee Road's Fast Mail R.P.O., were elevated. The guys working the mail in that car were so busy, they probably wouldn't have noticed me unless I walked in!
Best wishes! /s/ Bob
wjstix wrote: As far as the ore, except for a few steel plants (like US Steel's plant in Duluth MN) basically all steel production was done in Chicago or cities east of Chicago, so there really wasn't a market to send ore west from MN, WI or MI. I believe Union Pacific did serve some western ore mines, but not sure where that ore went??
As far as the ore, except for a few steel plants (like US Steel's plant in Duluth MN) basically all steel production was done in Chicago or cities east of Chicago, so there really wasn't a market to send ore west from MN, WI or MI. I believe Union Pacific did serve some western ore mines, but not sure where that ore went??
Many years ago the Union Pacific had its own fleet of 100-ton mini-gons in service to haul iron ore to the U.S. Steel mill in Provo, Utah. The ore originated at the South Pass City mine located about 70-miles north of Rock Springs, Wyo. U.S. Steel's own railroad, powered by a matched set of F-units, hauled the ore for the first 60-miles or so. U.P. power and crews took over on a connecting branch that ran north of Rock Springs. The mine eventually played out, U.S. Steel's track was ripped up, and the steelmaker sold its mill to an independent operator.
Colorado & Southern also had an iron ore movement between Sunrise Mine located in east central Wyoming and the C.F.& I. steel mill at Minnequa (south Pueblo), Colorado. The ore moved in some really ancient open top hoppers, 70-to-77 ton capacity and equipped with solid bearing journals. The cars carried C.B.& Q., C.& S., and F.W.& D. reporting marks plus "Everywhere West" and "Route of the Zephyrs" (?) slogans. The Sunrise Mine too eventually played out and the C.F.& I. mill converted to processing mostly scrap steel. Today, I believe, that mill is owned by Schnitzer Steel of Portland, Ore.
wjstix wrote:Didn't Upper Michigan ("Yooper Country") have some 3-1/2' gauged railroads??
I am not aware of any 3 1/2-ft.-gage, but the Atlantic & Lake Superior and the Hecla & Torch Lake were 49-inch-gage as I recall. There was some explanation for the odd gage, but I would have to look it up to refresh my memory. I think it had something to do with mistakenly building the first locomotive to that gage, and then building the railroad to match.
JonathanS wrote: JanOlov wrote:Great stuff fellas! Which were the big ore railroads besides the DM&IR?While not generally considered an "Ore Road" the Pennsy actually carried more ore than many of the "Ore roads". Pennsy carried ore from Cleveland to Youngstown, Pittsburg, Wheeling, Steubenville and many other mills in Western PA, Northern WV and Eastern Ohio. Additionally there was a fairly famous move of ore that ran from Erie to Mount Carmel PA where it was turned over to the Lehigh Valley for delivery to Bethlehem Steel. Ore was also carried from Cleveland to Steelton and Harrisburg PA. Foreign ore was unloaded in Pennsy's facility in Philadelphia and hauled west to Coatesville, Steelton, Harrisburg, and quite a bit was hauled all the way across the state to Pittsburgh.Bessemer & Lake Erie was used by US Steel as a conveyor to bring ore from Lake Erie into the US Steel mills around Pittsburgh.The Reading also had considerable ore business. They carried ore from various mines, Grace and Cornwall being two of the majors, to the Bethlehem Steel plants in Bethlehem and Lebanon. Ore unloaded at the Reading's Port Richmond facility in Philadelphia was hauled to Bethlehem, Conshohocken, Phoenixville, Pottstown, Harrisburg and a number of other minor mills.
On the "receiving end" of things (that is, the Lake Erie ore ports and RRs) don't forget the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie. The NYC managed to get a hold of this line and kept it out of the Pennsy's hands which netted it a handsome little dividend maker. I seem to recall that for some years it was considered one of, if not the most, profitable lines in the country for it's size (basically, just a mainline from the lake to the Ohio River, not much in the way of branches).
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