NS engine question

Apparently that's the "current NS paint scheme".  See the "Horsehead White Paint Key" note near the top of this webpage on Chris Toth's outstanding "NSDash9" website at:  http://www.nsdash9.com/horsehead.html 

- Paul North.

Hello ndbprr!

This is something that actually carried over from the old Southern Railway.  Back then the Southern would identify engines equipped to be operated as lead units in radio trains with white number boards.  The control stands inside these units actually had the equipment necessary to control mid train helpers.  The Southern converted a group of old 40' boxcars as receiver cars which would be coupled to the engines two-thirds of the way back in the train.  These boxcars had radio equipment that received the signals from the lead units and jumper cables which would be used to send signals to the helper engines.

All of the older radio engines have had their old control stands removed but the practice of white number boards on the front of the locomotives continued on with the later NS paint schemes.

Hope this helps.

Tim G

NS Locomotive Engineer

EMD#1

Hello ndbprr!

"...This is something that actually carried over from the old Southern Railway.  Back then the Southern would identify engines equipped to be operated as lead units in radio trains with white number boards.  The control stands inside these units actually had the equipment necessary to control mid train helpers.  The Southern converted a group of old 40' boxcars as receiver cars which would be coupled to the engines two-thirds of the way back in the train.  These boxcars had radio equipment that received the signals from the lead units and jumper cables which would be used to send signals to the helper engines..."

All of the older radio engines have had their old control stands removed but the practice of white number boards on the front of the locomotives continued on with the later NS paint schemes.

Hope this helps.

Tim G (EMD#1)

NS Locomotive Engineer

Just to add a note; The original Southern Rwy system was operational in the early 1960's and was called LOCOTROL ( and each variant had a Model Number I, II designator as well.)

 Transmission equipment Installation was too large for locomotive cabs so it was mounted in  specially designated boxcars.  See link below to see photos of operational trains.  Helpers were placed just ahead of middle of trains.

Here is photo link: http://www.carrtracks.com/sr2567a.htm

samfp, if you don't know, then don't pretend. The equipment in the boxcars was for reception, not transmission. It was not too large for a locomotive. If , however it was installed in a locomotive then it could only control that locomotive and those MU'ed to it. By putting it in the boxcar, which could be coupled and MU'ed to any locomotive in the system it made every locomotive in the fleet useable midtrain. It was similar to UP's idea of using old GE units with the prime mover and traction motors removed to do the same thing. (the gray locomotives). Of course it was much cheaper and even more flexible.

tdmidget

samfp, if you don't know, then don't pretend. The equipment in the boxcars was for reception, not transmission.

It would be both transmission and reception.  Locotrol establishes a link which requires constant two-way  communication.  If the link is lost the helper goes to idle.

The equipment for the master locomotive did not take up much room, and CPR was able to put the locotrol equipment in the quite small short nose of their MLW M-630s.  The locotrol receiving unit that was mounted in a dedicated car included a separate airbrake control system.  Perhaps the earlier versions of locotrol needed this separate brake control, and later the boffins figured out how to command the remote locomotive to do the same thing directly.  We often forget how primitive microprocessors were back ca1970.  The power in what you carry today in your pocket to connect with the internet would have needed a rather large room back then.

John

tdmidget

"...samfp, if you don't know, then don't pretend.

The equipment in the boxcars was for reception, not transmission. It was not too large for a locomotive. If , however it was installed in a locomotive then it could only control that locomotive and those MU'ed to it. By putting it in the boxcar, which could be coupled and MU'ed to any locomotive in the system it made every locomotive in the fleet useable midtrain. It was similar to UP's idea of using old GE units with the prime mover and traction motors removed to do the same thing. (the gray locomotives). Of course it was much cheaper and even more flexible..."

tdmidget:

"...samfp, if you don't know, then don't pretend. The equipment in the boxcars was for reception, not transmission..."

"...It would be both transmission and reception.  Locotrol establishes a link which requires constant two-way  communication.  If the link is lost the helper goes to idle..."

To tdmidget;  I am not wanting to get into a battle over this, I am not a technical person, by any stretch of any one's imagination. I simply over the years, have had the benefit of speaking with and having contact with a number of folks who were in the Railroad business. To them I am grateful for their friendships and wealth of experience.

The LocoTrol systems have benn around since the late 1950's in a number of formats.The L&N RR at one point had a system of radio control that utilized strain gauges to monitor train control and communicated that info by radio links.

See This link: http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/162904/1793947.aspx

The system was also tried by the Southern Rwy. Both roads discarded it as ineffective(?). and moved on.

We are discussing a technology that existed in the 1950/1960 eras. Computerized equipment was in many cases rather large and cumbersome to handle and utilize.

[side note}  My first experience with a major IBM system(1962) was in an installation at Univ of Ga (Athens) it was an IBM 7094. It FILLED a three Story HOUSE on the Campus a UGA.  Iwt was a card reader that converted info to tape drives, and processors that reproduced the information product onto massive line printers (very noisy!) . UGA rented out time on that system at the rate of $10K a minute. The program we took there  normally ran on (read tied up) common business systems ( card readers,etc) of the time for approx two weeks.  The UGA computer process that program in about 4 minutes, once it was loaded.

The LocoTrol of the Southern Railway's system was mounted in converted boxcars ( side door removed and man doors installed in the ends). The Boxcar also received some ballasting, as well. 

That LocoTrol system was mounded down the center of the car in cabinets. There were also, Radio gear, air valves that were rather bigger than normal that were computer controlled,to handle Train line air, as well. The whole installation took up roughly the center of the cars floor, and roughly half the interior length.

The beauty of the Boxcar Locotrol installation was that any manufacturer's power could be hooked up to the Control Car and utilized over the road.  The engines did not need additional installations of equipment beyond some radio gear on them to function under LocoTrol control. 

Those original LocoTrol Systems were also used by ATSF which (IIRC) were mounted in  former 'F' Booster (B Units). CPR utilized a boxcar system similar to the Southern Rwy's cars.  

CPR Control Car: http://www.mountainrailway.com/CP%201000%20Page%203.htm

and this as well: http://www.carrtracks.com/cap22.htm

Bear in mind they were some of the original LocoTrol models, subsequent versions were growing smaller as the technology improved. Many being mounted in the 'noses of the locomotives. Now I understand the LocoTrol Technology is pretty much contained on a 'card' that chan be changed out as needed.

here is a video,linked to show a control car in a passing train (1988):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f06noVlFzyY

It took until the 70's BEFORE Microproccesers were small enough for all Locotrol to be Mounted on the LOCOMOTIVES.  On the Santa Fe the Process was for Odds to be Masters and Evens to be Recivers.  So if you saw a set of Midengine Helpers with a Even Number leading it was UNMANNED.  This process Continued all the way until the C-40-8W's they got for the York Canyon Coal Trains over Raton Pass until the Mine Closed. 

ndbprr

Why do some NS enngines have the area around the cab number boards paintedwhite?

Before we wound up in Locotrol-land, I think you wanted to know about the white "eyebrow".  That was originally part of the "horsehead" paint scheme - which debuted around 2000.  Apparently, that part of it got dropped - probably to save some time and effort when repainting.

   Sampf, (just curious), the pictures of the boxcars in question show them pretty much sealed up.   Having maintained computer systems back in the good ole days, I remember that they produced a tremendous amount of heat, and that they were sensitive to high temperatures.   Up around 75 degrees, they started getting flaky, and as you approached 80 degrees, they would just quit.   It wasn' till the mid 70's that they would run at higher temperatures.   Do you remember if those old boxcars were air-conditioned?  If not, they must have had a tremendous ventilation system.

oltmannd

 

 

 

 

Before we wound up in Locotrol-land, I think you wanted to know about the white "eyebrow".  That was originally part of the "horsehead" paint scheme - which debuted around 2000.  Apparently, that part of it got dropped - probably to save some time and effort when repainting.

The part that got dropped was the white around the windshield.  I heard it was too much of a pain to do all that masking.   I've heard speculation it was to make the engines a little more visible, but who knows.  Probably a case of someone thought it would look cool... (which it kind of does).