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Amtrak FL9's

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Posted by DMUinCT on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 8:31 AM

You all are right, a 50 year old locomotive is "un-maintainable", but they are graceful. 

EPA requirements can be meet during a rebuild with enough money, electrical parts from another era, long out of production is another story.  Cab armor and corrosion repair is expensive.  Still, Commuter railroads have successfully rebuilt F40PH, F40PHL, and GP40MC for service.

But then again, the "Acela" and "HP8' is modern, graceful, and looks like its moving standing still.  Sheet metal and fiberglass, a locomotive, an automobile, it's just as easy to make a beautyful one as an ugly one.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 8:02 AM

The Genesis and P42ac were designed to be easely cleaned and fixed the facetted front end  does both., A FL-9 with all its bondo does not meet collission strenght as mandated by FRA, and a new locomotive would in no way look like any of the old behemoths.

Issues with bulldog nose and ALCO PA nose is visibility, in commuter service trains stop at points were commuters walk around locomotives , just so they can get home one minute earlier.

 Would you like a line shut down every time one of these idiots is run over, been there done that.

 The bulldog nose may have looked great on a stremliner but for engineer its a hinderence, visibility difference between FL-9 (80 feet) or a Genesis (35 feet) is more than worth it to be ugly.

 

The commuter does not care if the locomotive is a square noisy box with no nose what so ever, as long as they get there on time.

As for the railfan, railroads don't care, if you want estethics go to your local museum and drool all you want

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Posted by kevikens on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 7:38 AM
You are, of course, correct that the average commuter is more concerned with reliability than appearance yet this does not mean that equipment HAS to be ugly. Why cannot designers produce locomotives that are also aesthetically pleasing as well as practical ? Is there something about the appearance of these Genesis "aardvarks" that makes them more ergonomic ? If not, why not design them to look like EMD E units, FL units, or better, Alco PA's ? Those locomotives were among the most beautiful pieces of locomotive engineering ever and if the angular lines of the Genesis do not serve some particular propulsion requirement why not try to make them more pleasing in appearance ? The FL 9's may not be any longer mechanically reliable or enviormentally sound but they and their brethren were always a sight to behold.
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:52 AM

Were do you get that the Genesis is a problem child ??? the MDBF is 300% better than the FL-9m. And the FL-9 is beyond fixing when it comes to EPA mandated polution control.

Any railbuff that believes a 1940's technology locomotive can outperform a 1990's technology locomotive lives in a dreamland.

The 2006 will never run again as the rear half burnerd out and DRM has no way of changing  tracktion motors and other non metal parts in truck. it dod not catch fire in GCT the 2006 burned when oil leaks ignited due to brake's on a Wassaic shuttle out of Brewster.

 2012 has HEP radiator leaks but is otherwise good unit.

And anyone who believes the commuter cares what pulls their train is again in dreamland the commuter could not care if there was a span of Budweister Clydesdales in front as long as their choo choo is on time.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:47 AM

 GMTRacing wrote:
Well the Genny may outperform the FL-9 (which was a problem child from the get go), but in my opinion the Genesis are among the homeliest devices ever built. We have 2006 in the Rail museum here (the one that caught fire in GCT after rebuild) but other MK FL-9 rebuilts are still running to Danbury mostly on the weekends and they look absolutely magnificent pulling into sight. I'd be willing to bet that if they rebodied the Genesis, ridership would increase. Who can get excited about getting towed or pushed to work by a demented toaster?  J.R.

As a daily Metra commuter, I can honestly respond that almost nobody cares.  While I enjoy the ride to and from work and the various motive power, other trains, etc. that I see from my ride, the average daily rider is more interested in on-time performance.  If a Genesis does a better job of that than the FL9, than the daily commuter will be very pleased with a Genesis, even if its appearance isn't particularly distinguished.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by GMTRacing on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 10:22 PM
Well the Genny may outperform the FL-9 (which was a problem child from the get go), but in my opinion the Genesis are among the homeliest devices ever built. We have 2006 in the Rail museum here (the one that caught fire in GCT after rebuild) but other MK FL-9 rebuilts are still running to Danbury mostly on the weekends and they look absolutely magnificent pulling into sight. I'd be willing to bet that if they rebodied the Genesis, ridership would increase. Who can get excited about getting towed or pushed to work by a demented toaster?  J.R.
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:54 PM

 PBenham wrote:
Wow. FL9s and I go way back. I saw my first one on the Hell Gate Bridge in 1964, leading some mail-express traffic. Then, later they were the queens of Grand Central after Spamtrak retired the last (NYC ex-CUT) P motors. I really got a kick out of watching them on "Empire Service" trains out of Albany-Rensselaer. The shop forces in A-R had to battle with those old girls by then, but they could outperform the GE dual modes that try to replace them. (MUCH to GE's never-ending disgust)  Now, if the NYSSR has it's way GCT will not be all M.U. cars (except for a very few trains,Laugh [(-D] soon). But this war is stuck in the bureaucratic mud, so it's muddling along at the expense of all NYSSR tax payersBlindfold [X-)]Banged Head [banghead]!

 

 I don't know where you got your Idea's but as locomotive engineer for Metro North I can assure you that the Genesis outperforms a pair of FL-9's any day.

I have been operating FL-9's since 1989 and Genesis since 1996  but give me a Genesis anytime, they pull good, they can get me up the hills on Danbury branch and have made diesel operations on MNCR about 3 times better due to less breakdowns than the FL-9's. The failure rate numbers don't lie, out MDBF rate went about 300% better with the GE's

Every GE on MNCR still operates in electric mode, while the FL-9 never lasted more than a week after coming out of the shop.

 The air quality in GCT is about 10 times better since the polluting two stroke engines and HEP units are no longer allowed in to the Terminal.

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Posted by DMUinCT on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:48 PM

A ConnDOT New Haven FL9, formally used by the Metro North Commuter Railroad.  When rebuilt with State money, the "as deliver" paint job was called for.  Shown hauling a scenic train on the Naugatuck Railroad at the Thomeston Dam.

www.rmne.org   Railroad Museum of New England

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by Erie Lackawanna on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 4:45 PM

PBeham wrote "Now, if the NYSSR has it's way GCT will not be all M.U. cars (except for a very few trains,Laugh <img src=" border="0" width="15" height="15" /> soon). But this war is stuck in the bureaucratic mud, so it's muddling along at the expense of all NYSSR tax payers."

 

I dont' understand what this meant (maybe there's a missing word).  New York is trying to get rid of the Gennies?  Or New York wants less MU cars?  If you get a chance, could you elaborate?

thanks

Charles Freericks
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Posted by PBenham on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 4:34 PM
Wow. FL9s and I go way back. I saw my first one on the Hell Gate Bridge in 1964, leading some mail-express traffic. Then, later they were the queens of Grand Central after Spamtrak retired the last (NYC ex-CUT) P motors. I really got a kick out of watching them on "Empire Service" trains out of Albany-Rensselaer. The shop forces in A-R had to battle with those old girls by then, but they could outperform the GE dual modes that try to replace them. (MUCH to GE's never-ending disgust)  Now, if the NYSSR has it's way GCT will not be all M.U. cars (except for a very few trains,Laugh [(-D] soon). But this war is stuck in the bureaucratic mud, so it's muddling along at the expense of all NYSSR tax payersBlindfold [X-)]Banged Head [banghead]!
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Posted by eolafan on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 12:35 PM
I am happy to see the FL9 units get a museum home as it was the FL9's that initially got me hooked on railfanning.  Back in the seventies when living in metropolitan New York I would take the train from Tuckahoe (on the Harlem line) into GCT and would marvel at the FL9 powered expresses from "way up north" on the line beyond the electrification.
Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim)
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Posted by DMUinCT on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 10:28 AM

FL-9s in New Haven Paint have found a home with two museum railroads in Connecticut.  One pulls Tourist Trains north out of Waterbury. Note the ditch lights etc.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by nicknoyes on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 10:00 AM
Thank you
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:26 AM

Sold to Morristown and Erie, 4 units stored and two active on their subsidiary

Maine Eastern railroad

http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/m/ME-Eastern-489-EXN.jpg.82241.jpg

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Amtrak FL9's
Posted by nicknoyes on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:02 AM

What happened to the Amtrak FL9's, road numbers 484 - 489?

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