Amtrak FL9's

[Ham549]

What about the VIA crews who operate trains pulled by Genesis locomotives?

Yes they do have a few but unlike amtrak they diden't replace there F40PH fleet with them and it looks like Amtrak is paying the price.

[PBenham]

Amtrak's F40PHs were pretty well "used up" when they were sold off or scrapped. They are a lot older than VIAs F40s, by some years. The VIA F40s have had some hard use, not unlike the Amtrak units, but VIA's F40s get TLC from the shop forces in say, Toronto. Amtrak cannot afford this kind of TLC for their power, which explains the problems the Genesis units have now. If Amtrak's shop forces had the resources VIA's forces have, well they would be better off now. But, Amtrak cut their repair/maintence budgets and this is hurting them-big time.

[oltmannd]

A few observations and opinions:

1. "Harmon FL9 maintenance" may be an oxymoron.  Of all the shops I've been in, and I've been in some lousy ones, Harmon was the worst.  Rensselaer seemed to do a bit better with their rebuild 6.

2. I can't decide whether the FL9s design can best be decribed as a "kitbash gone wrong" or "back of coctail napkin after work at LaGrange".

3.  They looked really cool in their NH paint.  MTA blue/yellow was OK when the yellow was bright.  Amtrak Phase II was pretty good, but generic.

4.  Of all the times I rode behind them out of GCT on Amtrak trains in the mid 70s, they were dual mode in name only.  Rarely did they manage to clear the end of the platform on electric.  The Amtrak owned and maintained 6 actually did manage to clear the Park Ave tunnel on electric every time I rode behind them in the late 80s and early 90s.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Oltmannd makes some interesting points regarding the FL9, especially points 2 and 3.  The FL9 has come across as a specialized, complex locomotive sold to a railroad that could not afford to maintain them properly.  I will agree with the postings that imply that the FL9 lasted as long as it has primarily because nobody wanted to design the specialized replacement needed to fit that niche.  I will opine that the Amtrak and Metro North P32's will enjoy a long life for a similar reason.

As far as Point 3, almost anything looked better in "McGinniss Madness", in either New Haven or Boston & Maine colors.  Even H. Reid's mis-shapen bricks (the EF-4's) looked good in NH colors.

[Anonymous]

Ok the F40PH desighn was the best people all seem to agree that the Genes#!+ sucks. The F40ph has great colishion protection can out preform and out run (at least out run in the short hall) a P42. The P42s cab is cramped and uses badely placed desktop controlls and are haveing mantance problems. The people up in canada must be haveing fun lafeing at us as they go by in there F40PHs.

 

 

Have you actually operated the P42's.  There cabs are actually pretty roomy since there is only one person in the cab at all times.  But they give you 3 seats just in case you have some riders.  And with all the engine noise, you can not hear hardly any of it from the cab, but if you open the engine room door, you can hear it plain as day.

[espeefoamer]

VIA wwill learn before too long that they are sidelining their P42s while the F40s keep on running!

[cordon]

I notice that the Diesel engine in the Genesis runs at constant speed.  Idle or full power, it's the same.  What is the reason for this?

Only the engineer in the cab on AMTRAK?  Is that really true?  I would expect the conductor or assistant conductor to go to the cab now and then just to make sure everything is OK. 

With one person in the cab, how do they follow the rule on some RRs that the conductor has to verify signals as they appear?

 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The engine in a Genesis runs at constant speed for the same reason it does on an F40PH: the auxiliary HEP alternator is also turned by the prime mover's crankshaft and constant speed is necessary for heat, lights and air conditioning on the trailing cars.

Metra also has only one person in the cab, and unless he's operating from a control coach, it would be difficult for the conductor to look in on him.

[DMUinCT]

As for the F40PH, in Boston, with the takeover of Commuter Rail by the State, they ordered F40PHs with the same spec as Amtrak.  In Commuter service, a train is made up as a unit for "push pull" service.  Running srarts in the morning and then idle untill mid-afternoon when the outgoing rush starts.  They learned.  The next order was for custom built F40PHL (L for long).  The longer and more graceful carbody housed a separate 600 HP  Diesel to drive HEP (Head End Power for lights, heat, and cooling). You now go back to a prime mover tied to the demands of an 8 notch throttle and the abillity to slow idle for hour between runs.

[cordon]

I'm sure other people have said this before, but I want to go on record with it.

Train cabs should have two people in them for safety reasons.

Thanks for the info on HEP and engine speed.

 

 

[Anonymous]

I notice that the Diesel engine in the Genesis runs at constant speed.  Idle or full power, it's the same.  What is the reason for this?

Only the engineer in the cab on AMTRAK?  Is that really true?  I would expect the conductor or assistant conductor to go to the cab now and then just to make sure everything is OK. 

With one person in the cab, how do they follow the rule on some RRs that the conductor has to verify signals as they appear?

 

 

The way the rule is followed is when the engineer sees the signal he gets on the radio to the conductor and relays the signal to him.  The conductor then repeats the singal back to the engineer.  If the train is moving how does the conductor get into the cab.  The locomotive is actually fitted with an alerter.  If the engineer does not move a lever, or blow the horn with in I belive 45 to 60 seconds it will show a red light, and then start making this horrible noise.  If the engineer does not reset it with in a certain period of time the trains and locomotive brakes are applied at a supression rate.  Basically the train will apply full braking with the air exhausting at a service rate instead of an emergency rate. And the Enginer will go into Idle until everything is recovered.

[cordon]

So, the conductor repeats the signal back to the engineer even though he, the conductor, cannot see the signal?  If that is acceptable practice, then I imagine that the rule says to do just that, but leaves out any mention that the conductor should actually observe the signal.  Personally, I find that unacceptable.  Two crew members should observe and interpret each signal and then agree on what they see.  Simply repeating the words doesn't accomplish anything.

I thought one could walk from the front of the train through doors into the engine and to the cab.

 

[DMUinCT]

On freight service the Conductor is in the cab with the Engineer. (no Caboose)

Passenger service, one man in the cab (with exceptions).  An "Alerter" to keep him awake. Pass a Restrictive Signal an Alarm goes off. He (she) must reset the Alarm.  If a Restrictive Signal is in "ATC" territory, it will make the correction if he (she) doesn't.

On the "Acela", the conductor has an "office" in the Club Car, in it he has a duplicate of the Engineer's CRT screen to monitor what the Engineer does.

 

[Anonymous]

On almost every long distance amtrak train there is no way to even get to the enginner from the cars.  Even if the condyctor could get to the enginner they would already be past the signal.  My understanding is that when the engineer calls the signal over the radio the conductor then writes the signal on the signal awarness form.  If the train gets by a red signal or something I am sure the Conductor would not be completly responcible since he can not physically see the signal.  He can show what the enginner told him the signal was.  That would be a question for an actuall Amtrak conductor or assistant conductor.  I might be able to help you in a few months on that if I get the job with Amtrak, but I can not clerify it at this time. Since I my self could be wrong on parts of it.