CMStPnP Basically all Amtrak offers is a compartment with bed between point a and b..........and the meals suck unless your a Waffle House patron. It has never offered a true first class experience. It's business class stinks too.
I will second CMSt&P's recomendation. I took the Gold Leaf option and it was all I could have wanted.
CMStPnP Gramp We're looking into Mountaineer for our special train experience Pay for the Gold Leaf class. You will only ride that train once or twice in a lifetime so the lower classes will save you money but are you taking a vacation to remember or a vacation that is cheap. Ultimately it is your choice. When I go on vacation, I pay through the nose for a decent rental car and a decent hotel with the attitude vacation is supposed to be my splurge and relax time not my stress out time because I cut a few corners financially. Thats why I always make the arrangements myself and never use Expedia, Hotels dot com, or any of the other middle people.
Gramp We're looking into Mountaineer for our special train experience
Pay for the Gold Leaf class. You will only ride that train once or twice in a lifetime so the lower classes will save you money but are you taking a vacation to remember or a vacation that is cheap. Ultimately it is your choice.
When I go on vacation, I pay through the nose for a decent rental car and a decent hotel with the attitude vacation is supposed to be my splurge and relax time not my stress out time because I cut a few corners financially. Thats why I always make the arrangements myself and never use Expedia, Hotels dot com, or any of the other middle people.
Thx for your recommendation, CMStPnP.
GrampWe're looking into Mountaineer for our special train experience
OvermodI thought he said 'socalist' -- Erik, wouldn't that be Metrolink?
No it's trying to market a long distance train with bare bones offerings to keep expenses low and at the same time setting up the fare tiers for that same train to appeal to the largest market segment possible. Basically all Amtrak offers is a compartment with bed between point a and b..........and the meals suck unless your a Waffle House patron. It has never offered a true first class experience. It's business class stinks too.
charlie hebdoyet want LD trains with bells and whistles
That is Amtraks goal for the LD line they want an "experience" type train, which means with some of the luxury items brought back. Apparently they see a market for that being stronger than what they are offering now........though they want someone to backfill for any deficits as well so they also feel the "experience" trains will lose some money but maybe not as much as being lost now.......that is the vibe I get from Amtrak management comments to the press.
"We want to run them right" was one comment I heard.
We were going to take Thruway/Hiawatha/Texas Eagle (Roomette) to Dallas for Thanksgiving to see family, but have thought better of it. Took a $150 bath to cancel. My wife wanted to take a "sleeper" train, and I did, too. Just don't want to risk a miserable travel experience. Canceled flight back, too (fully refundable). Airline shrank connection time at OHare. Too iffy. We're gonna drive instead. If it snows, it snows. Used to it with our Outback. We're looking into Mountaineer for our special train experience at a later date.
If LD trains went away, would what remained be run any better? I don't think I'd bet on it.
Putting lipstick on a pig,
I think JBL would be more knowledgeable on this, but it seems adding more amenities including more staff would raise the above rails cost even higher than now. The sleepers are supposedly well-patronized already so improving them would be just throwing more good money down the deepening hole.
My impression was, as CMStPnP said, that Amtrak had separated LD to show this more clearly with a view to discontinuing most/all this pointless operation.
I thought he said 'socalist' -- Erik, wouldn't that be Metrolink?
I think there are few true LD trains left in Europe or Asia that mirror the money-losing ones here. The problem is that when Amtrak tries to pretend the service they're selling is 'transportation'... there are competing ways that uniformly get the job done both better and cheaper if a 'bare-bones' model (or the kind of 'transit' model that cuts out as much as possible to trim overhead in what is usually a 'captive' market) is tried.
Any overnight train without functional arrangements to accommodate sleeping is not very useful, and unsurprisingly if the only arrangements are high-priced sleepers with Motel 6-style amenities it isn't surprising to me that the trains are underpatronized.
Which does not solve the issue you brought up in a number of posts about Amtrak government-sponsoring perceived luxuries for train-riders not available to other taxpayers.
I keep looking over at Joe's critique of the Avelia Liberty purchase, though: if you're going to have a network of money-losing LD trains at least try making them less of a least-common-denominator commodity.
Overmod charlie hebdo ...you shift gears and talk in contradiction of yourself about rejecting a transit model yet want LD trains with bells and whistles. You honestly think many people will pay the enormous costs of such services? He's not talking about "bell and whistle" amenities, he's talking about things that would make LD traffic more attractive to modern riders -- at more reasonable cost than putative time reductions would cost. We could easily be guided by the Delta discussion of in-flight services, and recognize that just a 'refresh' of existing cars and facilities won't solve many of the concerns that keep potential riders away from the LD trains. None of what he's discussing is 'break the bank' luxuries, and I doubt you'll see a return to lounge pianos, but things like faster and better wireless-Internet connectivity (which is rapidly becoming preferable to wired satellite radio in Superliners), "to-go" apps for food pickup at stations en route, charge points for various devices, "hover seats" in at least business class, hostel sleeping for the coach contingent... those aren't bank-breaking amenities and they would vastly enhance the experience for many who wouldn't consider Amtrak otherwise. I won't get into crew training and management, but that's another place Amtrak really, really needs to improve... and it will be difficult.
charlie hebdo ...you shift gears and talk in contradiction of yourself about rejecting a transit model yet want LD trains with bells and whistles. You honestly think many people will pay the enormous costs of such services?
He's not talking about "bell and whistle" amenities, he's talking about things that would make LD traffic more attractive to modern riders -- at more reasonable cost than putative time reductions would cost.
We could easily be guided by the Delta discussion of in-flight services, and recognize that just a 'refresh' of existing cars and facilities won't solve many of the concerns that keep potential riders away from the LD trains. None of what he's discussing is 'break the bank' luxuries, and I doubt you'll see a return to lounge pianos, but things like faster and better wireless-Internet connectivity (which is rapidly becoming preferable to wired satellite radio in Superliners), "to-go" apps for food pickup at stations en route, charge points for various devices, "hover seats" in at least business class, hostel sleeping for the coach contingent... those aren't bank-breaking amenities and they would vastly enhance the experience for many who wouldn't consider Amtrak otherwise.
I won't get into crew training and management, but that's another place Amtrak really, really needs to improve... and it will be difficult.
He denounces those nasty 'socialist' trains, which would mean he rejects the modern trains of much of the world outside NA, I guess. I regard 'bells and whistles' as pretty much synonomous with 'frills' though apparently you would not.
charlie hebdo...you shift gears and talk in contradiction of yourself about rejecting a transit model yet want LD trains with bells and whistles. You honestly think many people will pay the enormous costs of such services?
CMStPnPThe problem you run into from a state transit guy, ... That prices should be kept artifically low and service should never rise above just what is necessary to maximize ridership and reduce expenses. ...
I agree that a transit guy does not necessarily translate into a passenger rail guy. I remember in Boston they were thinking about converting the Rockport commuter line into transit rail, but luckily thought better. IIRC, NJT operates on 30% fare recovery.
CMStPnP Sunnyland now a guy who only seems to care about NEC I wouldn't agree with that. In fact I think some of Amtrak's recent negotiations with Coridors outside the NEC has been relatively intelligent of late. Expecially their agreement with CP in exchange for what? A near meaningless vote for the KCS merger? I am in total agreement with their position on LD trains. Cough up the funding for them Congress or the States or they will abandon the train. Very reasonable to me. Why should the rest of Amtraks network suffer at the expense of a LD train nobody is interested in paying for but in which produces deficits. The problem you run into from a state transit guy, typically is the socalist view of rail. That prices should be kept artifically low and service should never rise above just what is necessary to maximize ridership and reduce expenses. Which is NOT a model Amtrak should ever follow but has been forced into following with past Presidents because they viewed Amtrak as a larger transit system vs a competing transportation provider. Personally, I would like to see the next generation of LD passenger cars with more passenger frills vs just utiltarian models. Superliners started down that path but then the Amtrak bozo's stripped them down. Over time the lounge bartender disappeared, then the lounge piano, I don't think they ever implemented the sleeping car radio system which should have at least a subset of SIRIUS radio on it now. I still remember the days when the sleeping car linens were white in color and Amtrak provided a full compliment of shampoo, conditioner, etc. They appear to be going back to that but it was stupid to cut that back in the first place.
Sunnyland now a guy who only seems to care about NEC
I wouldn't agree with that. In fact I think some of Amtrak's recent negotiations with Coridors outside the NEC has been relatively intelligent of late. Expecially their agreement with CP in exchange for what? A near meaningless vote for the KCS merger?
I am in total agreement with their position on LD trains. Cough up the funding for them Congress or the States or they will abandon the train. Very reasonable to me. Why should the rest of Amtraks network suffer at the expense of a LD train nobody is interested in paying for but in which produces deficits.
The problem you run into from a state transit guy, typically is the socalist view of rail. That prices should be kept artifically low and service should never rise above just what is necessary to maximize ridership and reduce expenses. Which is NOT a model Amtrak should ever follow but has been forced into following with past Presidents because they viewed Amtrak as a larger transit system vs a competing transportation provider.
Personally, I would like to see the next generation of LD passenger cars with more passenger frills vs just utiltarian models. Superliners started down that path but then the Amtrak bozo's stripped them down. Over time the lounge bartender disappeared, then the lounge piano, I don't think they ever implemented the sleeping car radio system which should have at least a subset of SIRIUS radio on it now. I still remember the days when the sleeping car linens were white in color and Amtrak provided a full compliment of shampoo, conditioner, etc. They appear to be going back to that but it was stupid to cut that back in the first place.
I agreed with the first part of your post about LD. But then you shift gears and talk in contradiction of yourself about rejecting a transit model yet want LD trains with bells and whistles. You honestly think many people will pay the enormous costs of such services?
Sunnylandnow a guy who only seems to care about NEC
sounds like a good idea, Amtrak needs a leader with RR experience, they had 2 airline guys who knew nothing about trains and now a guy who only seems to care about NEC. About time we get someone who cares about trains, it has been a mess the last couple of years since all the cuts and furloughs with Covid and now they are short staffed and equipment.
He did OK when he ran the TTC.
I would think that if he was to head up Amtrak woul be a great solution of the present incompetance. Recognize that he does not have experience with intercity rail his work at the NY City MTA was significant. He has experience with dealing with Coumo who tried to interfeer with MTA operations . IMO he probably is one person who will be able to hold back efforts to eviscerate Amtrak.
Former NYC Transit President Byford to leave London job, return to US - Trains
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