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Gridlock

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Gridlock
Posted by Lithonia Operator on Tuesday, September 6, 2022 4:34 PM

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/amtrak-freight-railroads-maintain-positions-in-latest-gulf-coast-filings/

Someone's going to be really unhappy once the STB finally rules on this. Best case scenario is that all parties are unhappy because compromises have been agreed upon. (Although, I guess some would say the best case scenario is if they rule that the Amtrak train is a no-go.)

I want Amtrak to get their train, but I doubt it can be done without significant new infrastucture. And if that's the case, I wonder what we're looking at: 2024 at best?

Still in training.


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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, September 7, 2022 8:20 AM

Download, and read, the two long responses (they are numbered PDFs that you can rename appropriately once you have them) and take notes as you go.

So much for the actual excuse for vaunted PSR.  One major reason CSX and NS say Amtrak's study is 'flawed' is, supposedly, that it is impossible to plan ahead to block space for four daily trains (2 each way).  Apparently Amtrak cherry-picked one RTC report -- the most favorable -- and then adjusted it a bit, rather than conducting worst-case estimates and finding approaches to solve those issues.  The other two 'showstopping' issues they cite are (1) all maintenance would have to be done at night, which is "unsafe", and (2) freights might need to be 'parked' across grade crossings for as long as two hours, which poses a 'burden on the general public'.  Much is then made of those two consequences.

Thyis has me wondering if there could be such a thing as a conditional crossing closure, analogous to the time restrictions on New York river crossings that appear to be in process.  If crossings need to be closed for an extended period, schedule that, as for any other detour, and clearly define things like emergency-vehicle alternate access... or holding trains in less critical areas.

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Thursday, September 15, 2022 9:10 AM

The change of CEO at CSX may help get this settled.

Still in training.


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Posted by York1 on Thursday, September 15, 2022 9:38 AM

All of this time and effort for a train that is projected to carry fewer than 200 people per day.

It was Amtrak's most subsidized route before Katrina.  It is projected that it will lose over $370 per passenger if it starts running in 2027.

Maybe the two states (Mississippi and Louisiana, with Alabama not providing any money) and the national government should look into running an electric bus line along the Gulf Coast.  Interstate 10 and Highway 90 travel almost the exact route of the railroad.

A bus line would be far cheaper and more adaptable to traffic and weather problems.  It is only a 2½ hour drive between New Orleans and Mobile.  That is without stops.

York1 John       

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, September 15, 2022 2:40 PM

York1
A bus line would be far cheaper and more adaptable to traffic and weather problems.  It is only a 2½ hour drive between New Orleans and Mobile.  That is without stops.

I agree. And Megabus (usually nice) is as quick as 2.5 hours now.

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Thursday, September 15, 2022 3:16 PM

Even more than this specific case itself, I'm interested in what precedents might be set by the STB ruling (if they do in fact rule) regarding the rights of Amtrak vs. the rights of the railroads.

Still in training.


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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, September 15, 2022 6:36 PM

Lithonia Operator
Even more than this specific case itself, I'm interested in what precedents might be set by the STB ruling (if they do in fact rule) regarding the rights of Amtrak vs. the rights of the railroads.

I get the feeling that the STB thinks they are Justin Tucker and will continue to kick the can down the road without making a decision.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, September 17, 2022 2:43 PM

York1
All of this time and effort for a train that is projected to carry fewer than 200 people per day.

My interpretation is Amtrak is using this route to set a legal precendent more than it is following some compulsive addiction to getting this train up and running.    This case is mentioned by Amtrak in other areas of the country where NS or CSX are involved.    Specifically the Dallas to Atlanta train mostly over KCS but which needs some NS access as well and some NS permissions.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, September 17, 2022 4:46 PM

CMStPnP
 
York1
All of this time and effort for a train that is projected to carry fewer than 200 people per day.

My interpretation is Amtrak is using this route to set a legal precendent more than it is following some compulsive addiction to getting this train up and running.    This case is mentioned by Amtrak in other areas of the country where NS or CSX are involved.    Specifically the Dallas to Atlanta train mostly over KCS but which needs some NS access as well and some NS permissions.

NS doesn't even referrence Amtrak trains by their Amtrak schedule number.

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Posted by 243129 on Sunday, September 18, 2022 8:09 AM

BaltACD
NS doesn't even referrence Amtrak trains by their Amtrak schedule number.

How then do they refer to them?

 

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Posted by Gramp on Monday, September 19, 2022 4:47 PM

I remember an IC freight crew calling Amtrak's Blackhawk "the chicken freight".

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, September 20, 2022 4:16 PM

243129
 
BaltACD
NS doesn't even referrence Amtrak trains by their Amtrak schedule number. 

How then do they refer to them?

https://railroadfan.com/wiki/index.php/NS_Train_Symbols#000_Series_-_Amtrak_.26_Special_Trains

000 Series - Amtrak & Special Trains

SymbolOriginDestinationFrequencyNotes

010-012VariousVariousAs NeededAmtrak Specials
013Alexandria, VARoanoke, VAMon-FriAmtrak 171 from Boston, MA
014Roanoke, VAAlexandria, VAMon-FriAmtrak 176 to Boston, MA
015Alexandria, VARoanoke, VASaturdayAmtrak 147 from Springfield, MA
016Roanoke, VAAlexandria, VASat-SunAmtrak 156 to New York City, NY
017Alexandria, VARoanoke, VASundayAmtrak 145 from New York City, NY
019Alexandria, VANew Orleans, LADailyAmtrak 19 "Crescent" from New York City, NY
020New Orleans, LAAlexandria, VADailyAmtrak 20 "Crescent" to New York City, NY
021-038Broad Run, VA/Washington, D.C.Washington, D.C./Broad Run, VAMon-FriVRE Manassas Line (VRE 325 is NS 025, VRE 334 is NS 034, etc.)
040-045VariousVariousAs NeededPassenger Deadheads
050Charlottesville, VAAlexandria, VAMon, Thu, SatAmtrak 50 "Cardinal" from Chicago, IL - New York City, NY
051Alexandria, VACharlottesville, VAWed, Fri, SunAmtrak 51 "Cardinal" from New York City, NY - Chicago, IL
052-059VariousVariousAs NeededHigh-Wide
060-069VariousVariousAs NeededAmtrak/Steam Specials
070Kansas City, MOHarrisburg, PAAs NeededJB Hunt stacks
070St. Louis, MO (UP)Bellevue, OHAs needed18A reroute
073Raleigh, NCCharlotte, NCDailyAmtrak/NCDOT 73 "Piedmont"
074Charlotte, NCRaleigh, NCDailyAmtrak/NCDOT 74 "Piedmont"
075Raleigh, NCCharlotte, NCDailyAmtrak/NCDOT 75 "Piedmont"
076Charlotte, NCRaleigh, NCDailyAmtrak/NCDOT 76 "Piedmont"
077Raleigh, NCCharlotte, NCDailyAmtrak/NCDOT 77 "Piedmont"
078Charlotte, NCRaleigh, NCDailyAmtrak/NCDOT 78 "Piedmont"
079Selma, NCCharlotte, NCDailyAmtrak 79 "Carolinian" from New York City, NY
080Charlotte, NCSelma, NCDailyAmtrak 80 "Carolinian" from New York City, NY
091Selma, NCRaleigh, NCDailyAmtrak 91 "Silver Star" from New York City, NY - Miami, FL
092Raleigh, NCSelma, NCDailyAmtrak 92 "Silver Star" from Miami, FL - New York City, NY
095-097VariousVariousAs NeededForeign Line Trains
098-099VariousVariousAs NeededExport Locomotives
00AChicago, ILPontiac, MIDailyAmtrak 350 "Wolverine"
00TChicago, ILNew York, NYWed, Fri, SunAmtrak 50 "Cardinal" (Near Chicago, IL)
01APontiac, MIChicago, ILDailyAmtrak 351 "Wolverine"
01TNew York, NYChicago, ILMon, Thu, SatAmtrak 51 "Cardinal" (Near Chicago, IL)
02AChicago, ILPontiac, MIDailyAmtrak 352 "Wolverine"
02EPetersburg, VANorfolk, VAMon-FriAmtrak 125 from New York City, NY
02JPetersburg, VANorfolk, VASundayAmtrak 157 from New York City, NY
02TChicago, ILPittsburgh, PADailyAmtrak 30 "Capitol Limited" to Washington, DC
03AChicago, ILPontiac, MIDailyAmtrak 353 "Wolverine"
03ENorfolk, VAPetersburg, VAMon-FriAmtrak 84 to New York City, NY
03GNorfolk, VAPetersburg, VASat-SunAmtrak 88 to New York City, NY
03TPittsburgh, PAChicago, ILDailyAmtrak 29 "Capitol Limited" from Washington, DC
04APontiac, MIChicago, ILDailyAmtrak 354 "Wolverine"
04TPittsburgh, PAHarrisburg, PADailyAmtrak 42 "Pennsylvanian" to New York City, NY
05AChicago, ILPort Huron, MIDailyAmtrak 364 "Blue Water"
06APort Huron, MIChicago, ILDailyAmtrak 365 "Blue Water"
07APontiac, MIChicago, ILDailyAmtrak 365 "Wolverine
07THarrisburg, PAPittsburgh, PADailyAmtrak 43 "Pennsylvanian" from New York City, NY
08AChicago, ILGrand Rapids, MIDailyAmtrak 370 "Pere Marquette"
08TChicago, ILCleveland, OHDailyAmtrak 48 "Lake Shore Limited" to New York City, NY
09AGrand Rapids, MiChicago, ILDailyAmtrak 371 "Pere Marquette"
09TCleveland, OHChicago, ILDailyAmtrak 49 "Lake Shore Limited" from New York City, NY

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, September 20, 2022 7:42 PM

So if you were to call Amtrak#171 via radio you would call said train as 013?

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, September 20, 2022 9:16 PM

243129
So if you were to call Amtrak#171 via radio you would call said train as 013?

If you were on the NS.  On CSX you would call the train as P171+the date of origination ie. P17120 operating today.  I don't know it the NS computer system appends a day of origination, however, I suspect it does.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, September 23, 2022 1:59 AM

GRIDLOCK!   It was eh, like it.

https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/vid.jpg

 

 

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