York1 Jackflash Dont know why they dont run it from NOLA to Biloxi and not worry about Mobile now, Biloxi is where the Casinos are, maybe in the future extend the run another 60 miles to Mobile if they deside to get on board. This might have been the answer 30 years ago. Mississippi had casinos and Louisiana didn't. Now there are casinos in New Orleans, with Caesar's building a huge addition to their downtown location. If the train ran from Mobile to Baton Rouge, with a stop at the New Orleans airport, at least there might be some train customers.
Jackflash Dont know why they dont run it from NOLA to Biloxi and not worry about Mobile now, Biloxi is where the Casinos are, maybe in the future extend the run another 60 miles to Mobile if they deside to get on board.
Dont know why they dont run it from NOLA to Biloxi and not worry about Mobile now, Biloxi is where the Casinos are, maybe in the future extend the run another 60 miles to Mobile if they deside to get on board.
This might have been the answer 30 years ago. Mississippi had casinos and Louisiana didn't.
Now there are casinos in New Orleans, with Caesar's building a huge addition to their downtown location.
If the train ran from Mobile to Baton Rouge, with a stop at the New Orleans airport, at least there might be some train customers.
MGM's casinos and hotels have been hacked and basically shut down.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
York1 John
Attitudes have changed a lot in Alabama, as they have in many other states, north and south. Perfect? No, but a lot better than in the past.
Alabama has consistently been against paying for this train.
New Orleans wants it because they believe it will bring tourists to the city. Mississippi wants it because they believe there are casinos at each of the four stops that will benefit.
Alabama has very little benefit other than some 'future' ideas about cruise passengers, museums, etc.
The biggest reason not to spend huge amounts of money on this train is Interstate 10.
You can travel on I-10 from downtown New Orleans to near downtown Mobile in a little over two hours. What's more, the interstate goes through all the casino cities in Mississippi.
I seriously doubt this train would attract many passengers, regardless of some optimistic projections.
blue streak 1A possible problem of getting Mobile station . Super majority of 5 required.
My Aunt was a Nun for over a decade in Montgomery, AL. She stated they have a serious issue with racism there and the public bus system in Montgomery was designed to not work but only fulfill a Federal requirement of some sort. She stated repeatedly they tried to upgrade the transit system and over and over again it was voted down. I am sure Mobile isn't much different.
The whole idea of just building a platform versus rebuilding a station blown away by a Hurricane just screams "CHEAP!!!". If they do ever build another station, hopefully they are smart enough to make the replacement of stone and design it to handle tidal surges. Just my two cents.
A possible problem of getting Mobile station . Super majority of 5 required.
AL: Amtrak’s return to Mobile in 2024 could come down to crucial council decision | Mass Transit (masstransitmag.com)
petitnj This has nothing to do with PSR, data or drawbridges. The railroads have realized that they can milk the government for millions to improve their privately owned right-of-way. The railroads are willing to spend millions on specious data modelling, lawers and guesses to get back 10's of millions from the government. The class 1's buy back stocks to reward their stock holders, but won't spend a penny if they can squeeze it out of the government.
This has nothing to do with PSR, data or drawbridges. The railroads have realized that they can milk the government for millions to improve their privately owned right-of-way. The railroads are willing to spend millions on specious data modelling, lawers and guesses to get back 10's of millions from the government. The class 1's buy back stocks to reward their stock holders, but won't spend a penny if they can squeeze it out of the government.
I have a slightly different viewpoint in that technology is changing so fast along with business and economoics......it is obsoleteing so much railroad infrastructure that railroad capital budgets cannot keep up. Railroads have to prioritize their capital spending as a result. So just looking at the CP to Amtrak relationship which is among the best. Does CP fix a track usage situation in say Red Wing that is not currently impacting operations now to accomodate future Amtrak trains or does it use the Amtrak budget to do so? The latter seems to be OK with Amtrak, WisDOT, etc. So I see no harm in it. WisDOT should be representing the Wisconsin Taxpayers and I think it does so pretty well. CP should be representing the CP shareholders and I think it does so pretty well.
Step back from your computer and really think about this topic though. Look at the increasingly short compression of time that the following has changed and think about that the largest railroad has maybe $3-4 Billion max to spend on Capital improvements......
1. Elimination of the caboose and replacement with FRED.
2. Improvements / Advancements in Locomotive technology allowing 2-4 mile long trains under one crew.
3. Two man crews and massive realignment of crew change points.
4. Fairly massive consolidation in RR companies from 1980-2000, just 20 years and think of all the spending on repainting, rehab, debt reduction, computer systems to make them compatible, employee transitioning, corporate HQ realignment, etc.
5. Nationwide PTC implementation.
6. The whole new PSR concept and resulting spending to change operations and procedures.
7. The 1980-2000 shortline boom and consolidation.
8. Fuel Oil by rail and it's impact.
9. Massive increase then decrease of coal by rail.
10. Intermodal increases since 1980, increase in ramps and trains both.
11. Needed replacement of major railroad bridges as they near the 100 year mark.
12. Consolidation of and rerouting of rail traffic necessitating double track of more than one transcontinental rail route.
13. Increasing automation of track infrastructure and train dispatching including the company paid for consolidations and relocations of employees and staff.
14. Using corn to produce alchol as a fuel additive and all the resulting online plants and traffic that generated.
15. Industrial dislocation and/or downsizing elimination in Midwest, Northeast, etc and resulting shifts in traffic flow as well as related track abandonment there.
16. Then there is NAFTA and it's impact on traffic flows and distributions.
The list goes on far beyond this. Just give an estimated tabulation of the above and add in the items I may have missed and you'll see the investments needed to keep pace of rapidly increasing technology / economics and business probably far outstrip the ability of railroads to spend out of operating funds..........and so they have to prioritize spending over which projects return the most back to the railroad the fastest.
Goddamn Kalmbach incompetents keep 'disappearing' replies.
STB allows Amtrak analysts access to that proprietary RTC data, but warns severe penalties if there is any breach of 'highly confidential' of the kind Amtrak was planning. And they evidently got tired of the circus and ordered 30-day mediation.
Read the details here, courtesy of Railway Age:
https://www.railwayage.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/51268.pdf
I am particularly interested in this case because I grew up in Gulfport MS. Hanging around the Gulfport depot watching L&N trains go by was my favorite thing. Also, the IC went by, via a diamond right at the depot, to go to the port. A great railroad town for a kid in those days.
Still in training.
Today, which was supposed to be the last day of testimony before closing statements, ended with Chairman Oberman giving each side 30 more days to come up with better evidence. He said something akin to "If it were practical, at this point I'd declare each of you the loser."
Both sides presented a lot of detailed data, but CSX could not show why the proposed service would be an unfair hindrance to freight service; and Amtrak failed to demonstrate in practical terms how they can operationally co-exist with CSX in the corridor.
Lots and lots of "facts," but no persuasive argument from either side. Amtrak's last witness was particularly weak.
Oberman really, really wants the sides to settle so the STB does not have to step in. If the STB orders that the Amtrak service begin without significant new infrastructure, it will be interesting to see how on-time the trains run in this marriage made in hell.
Does anyone have an idea of approximately how long after the hearing ends the board will rule?
Lithonia Operator The hearing/trial has been quite contentious. Monday's session included several hours of non-public confidential testimony. The parties are far apart, and (barring an eleventh-hour settlement) it will be very interesting to see what the STB does. Whatever it is, one party (or maybe both) will be very unhappy. I have no sense of which way this will go.
The hearing/trial has been quite contentious. Monday's session included several hours of non-public confidential testimony.
The parties are far apart, and (barring an eleventh-hour settlement) it will be very interesting to see what the STB does. Whatever it is, one party (or maybe both) will be very unhappy. I have no sense of which way this will go.
In my view, both sides are reaching too far and the STB will probably rule down the middle. If there trully was an issue here then BNSF and CP would see it as well but they aren't and both BNSF and CP have no issues with hosting Amtrak.
CNN taking up the battle.
Amtrak dumps its nice guy persona in fight for Gulf Coast trains (msn.com)
MidlandMike BaltACD MidlandMike Lithonia Operator It appears to me that (CSX) is overwhelming AMTK with data, CSX and NS refused to provide Amtrak with the data before the hearing. Lithonia Operator But my general impression is that CSX is focused on data, and AMTK is focused on "we simply have the right to do this." Amtrak has been waiting for years for the data. If CSX's data was so compeling, why didn't they provide it a long time ago. CSX had their chance, so now Amtrak might as well say they have the right to do this. Proprietary Information. So it's proprietary info when they are trying to hide the basis of their modeling, then proprietary when they try to further delay the resumption of passenger service, but as soon as they are forced into the hearing, they gush forth this supposedly proprietary info to overwhelm the other side in data?
BaltACD MidlandMike Lithonia Operator It appears to me that (CSX) is overwhelming AMTK with data, CSX and NS refused to provide Amtrak with the data before the hearing. Lithonia Operator But my general impression is that CSX is focused on data, and AMTK is focused on "we simply have the right to do this." Amtrak has been waiting for years for the data. If CSX's data was so compeling, why didn't they provide it a long time ago. CSX had their chance, so now Amtrak might as well say they have the right to do this. Proprietary Information.
MidlandMike Lithonia Operator It appears to me that (CSX) is overwhelming AMTK with data, CSX and NS refused to provide Amtrak with the data before the hearing. Lithonia Operator But my general impression is that CSX is focused on data, and AMTK is focused on "we simply have the right to do this." Amtrak has been waiting for years for the data. If CSX's data was so compeling, why didn't they provide it a long time ago. CSX had their chance, so now Amtrak might as well say they have the right to do this.
Lithonia Operator It appears to me that (CSX) is overwhelming AMTK with data,
CSX and NS refused to provide Amtrak with the data before the hearing.
Lithonia Operator But my general impression is that CSX is focused on data, and AMTK is focused on "we simply have the right to do this."
Amtrak has been waiting for years for the data. If CSX's data was so compeling, why didn't they provide it a long time ago. CSX had their chance, so now Amtrak might as well say they have the right to do this.
Proprietary Information.
So it's proprietary info when they are trying to hide the basis of their modeling, then proprietary when they try to further delay the resumption of passenger service, but as soon as they are forced into the hearing, they gush forth this supposedly proprietary info to overwhelm the other side in data?
I think we all know his rationale.
A funny thing with "quits" and PSR...
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann BaltACD I never told train crews how to do the job - just what it needed to look like when completed. Between Conductor and Engineer they can figure out the minimum number of steps, couplings and time to get the job accomplished. I've had it happen already.
BaltACD I never told train crews how to do the job - just what it needed to look like when completed. Between Conductor and Engineer they can figure out the minimum number of steps, couplings and time to get the job accomplished.
I've had it happen already.
I have no doubt that some Train Dispatchers think they are better switchmen than those who put in the foot steps. One thing I learned early - given the opportunity train and engine crews will always 'go for the quit' - getting the job done in the fewest moves and the shortest time possible - take away that opportunity and they will make sure they go in the law making the moves.
BaltACDI never told train crews how to do the job - just what it needed to look like when completed. Between Conductor and Engineer they can figure out the minimum number of steps, couplings and time to get the job accomplished.
zugmann BaltACD You are sounding like the Engineer on a slop freight that thinks he is the best Train Dispatcher on the railroad - without any idea of what the Train Dispatcher's job is all about and how his train ranks in the scheme of priorities because priorities are just irrelevant junk. That's ok - plenty of dispatchers think they are the best train crew on the planet - without an idea of, etc etc etc. Ying, yang, balance in the universe and all that.
BaltACD You are sounding like the Engineer on a slop freight that thinks he is the best Train Dispatcher on the railroad - without any idea of what the Train Dispatcher's job is all about and how his train ranks in the scheme of priorities because priorities are just irrelevant junk.
That's ok - plenty of dispatchers think they are the best train crew on the planet - without an idea of, etc etc etc.
Ying, yang, balance in the universe and all that.
I never told train crews how to do the job - just what it needed to look like when completed. Between Conductor and Engineer they can figure out the minimum number of steps, couplings and time to get the job accomplished.
BaltACDYou are sounding like the Engineer on a slop freight that thinks he is the best Train Dispatcher on the railroad - without any idea of what the Train Dispatcher's job is all about and how his train ranks in the scheme of priorities because priorities are just irrelevant junk.
BaltACD charlie hebdo BaltACD MidlandMike Lithonia Operator It appears to me that (CSX) is overwhelming AMTK with data, CSX and NS refused to provide Amtrak with the data before the hearing. Lithonia Operator But my general impression is that CSX is focused on data, and AMTK is focused on "we simply have the right to do this." Amtrak has been waiting for years for the data. If CSX's data was so compeling, why didn't they provide it a long time ago. CSX had their chance, so now Amtrak might as well say they have the right to do this. Proprietary Information. In other words, "We are only providing this because we were ordered to do so. Before we hid behind the smokescreen we labeled 'proprietary data' to withhold. So guess what? Now we're flooding you with that plus a bunch of irrelevant junk. Why? Because we are a-holes. "Public be damned!" You are sounding like the Engineer on a slop freight that thinks he is the best Train Dispatcher on the railroad - without any idea of what the Train Dispatcher's job is all about and how his train ranks in the scheme of priorities because priorities are just irrelevant junk.
charlie hebdo BaltACD MidlandMike Lithonia Operator It appears to me that (CSX) is overwhelming AMTK with data, CSX and NS refused to provide Amtrak with the data before the hearing. Lithonia Operator But my general impression is that CSX is focused on data, and AMTK is focused on "we simply have the right to do this." Amtrak has been waiting for years for the data. If CSX's data was so compeling, why didn't they provide it a long time ago. CSX had their chance, so now Amtrak might as well say they have the right to do this. Proprietary Information. In other words, "We are only providing this because we were ordered to do so. Before we hid behind the smokescreen we labeled 'proprietary data' to withhold. So guess what? Now we're flooding you with that plus a bunch of irrelevant junk. Why? Because we are a-holes. "Public be damned!"
In other words, "We are only providing this because we were ordered to do so. Before we hid behind the smokescreen we labeled 'proprietary data' to withhold. So guess what? Now we're flooding you with that plus a bunch of irrelevant junk. Why? Because we are a-holes. "Public be damned!"
You are sounding like the Engineer on a slop freight that thinks he is the best Train Dispatcher on the railroad - without any idea of what the Train Dispatcher's job is all about and how his train ranks in the scheme of priorities because priorities are just irrelevant junk.
The STB has approved CSX acquisition of Pan Am
https://www.railwayage.com/regulatory/stb-approves-csx-pan-am-combination/
This reminds me of obfuscated source in the software industry.
There are many reasons why a software company does not want others to have a clear and concise source to reverse-engineer. So they take advantage of a particular compiler, and write all kinds of fascinating but 'plausible' nonsense, including code that does nothing but confirm in the compiled binaries that it was copied from proprietary software...
Here, CSX wants to hide nuggets of its key proprietary knowledge' in a great deal of eagerly proffered material. I think with the hope that the STB eyes will glaze over before they extract the 'meat'.
BaltACDou are sounding like the Engineer on a slop freight that thinks he is the best Train Dispatcher on the railroad - without any idea of what the Train Dispatcher's job is all about and how his train ranks in the scheme of priorities because priorities are just irrelevant junk.
Wow man, you just described the METRA EXPRESS....ha-ha-ha. I get stuck behind it sometimes on Amtrak's higher speed Hiawatha service. :)
charlie hebdo Now we're flooding you with that plus a bunch of irrelevant junk.
An "expensive model collector"
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.