Just an opinion. I think it all hinges on TC. If it succeeds, it will change everyone's outlook regarding rail's place in Texas and the US.
No 21 was not so short tonight - November 23rd. At Temple it had three sleepers, a diner, and two coaches. Maybe some of the folks that would have flown to the major cities along the route decided on a room in one of the Eagle's sleeping cars.
Gramp Just an opinion. I think it all hinges on TC. If it succeeds, it will change everyone's outlook regarding rail's place in Texas and the US.
Actually, not exactly. I sometimes feel I live in a different Texas than some of the folks that post here. However the Austin to Hempsted study was not done by a private rail company it was done by the State DOT as part of a what if scenario.
Houston has a serious traffic problem and was looking at upgrading the Eureka to Hempsted line for commuter rail in 2011 and here is their study.
http://www.gcrd.net/docs/Hempstead%20commuter%20rail.09%2013%2011%20GCRD%20Board%20Meeting.pdf
The State DOT thought of a what if we connected that project with the goals of Austin Metro to also expand to the South and SE and possibly fill the gap to start up intercity rail service between Houston and Austin?
So the cost of such a project would be paid for via Houston, Austin, the State and the Feds. And honestly I have no clue how we arrive at the conclusion that Amtrak would never be a contender. The state looks at all bidders so I chalk that up as just opinion.
Now the studies were done in 2011 and there has not been a lot since but that is normal for projects of this size. Houston tabled the commuter rail project for now but I am fairly certain it is still interested in it. I don't know about Austin or State DOT. I don't actually think the State DOT gives one whit about the private proposal of Dallas to Houston. I think it views it as more a nice to have if it happens but that the state is still going forwards with transportation planning regardless of the success of that specific project. So are most of the transit agencies in the state. I don't see them pausing in breathless anticipation of the Dallas to Houston project but rather continuing to plan and look over the various scenarios for the future.
BTW, the same is true of WisDOT. It could care less of the various fantasy private proposals in Milwaukee to spend on rail passenger service and does not take them seriously until it sees ground broken and rails laid. It continues to plan on it's own and improve on what is now in the present.
CMStPnPThe State DOT thought of a what if we connected that project with the goals of Austin Metro to also expand to the South and SE and possibly fill the gap to start up intercity rail service between Houston and Austin? So the cost of such a project would be paid for via Houston, Austin, the State and the Feds.
I still think there is a call for Austin-the-capital to Houston via TC, which would provide the 'through' service much more compellingly if the demand exists, and build the 'other' out, perhaps to San Antonio as well, to no more than PRIIA or even fancy Stadler equipment and track levels.
OvermodAustin-the-capital to Houston via TC
TC cannot incorporate that via their existing line as it is too far East, you have to look at a map of Texas to understand that Austin is a lot more West then North of Houston. So for TC to build Dallas-Austin-Houston would have introduced a major dog leg to their line and slowed the Dallas to Houston Time. Either that or build a whole new Houston to Austin line seperately.
Now Austin is more North than East of San Antonio. So that is much more of a direct routing. This is why the railroads built this way to begin with. The branch to Austin from Houston was always a branch vs a mainline and it was off the original Houston and Texas Central. Galveston-Houston-Dallas-Denison line.
BTW, the railroads built from Galveston first because that is where initially the JP Morgan Steam Ship lines docked from New York City and points East (New Orleans). So Galveston to North Central Texas to first and initially open up the state to settlers. Not sure of the history of Houston or it's port but it gained relevance later.
CMStPnPTC cannot incorporate that via their existing line as it is too far East, you have to look at a map of Texas to understand that Austin is a lot more West then North of Houston. So for TC to build Dallas-Austin-Houston would have introduced a major dog leg to their line and slowed the Dallas to Houston Time. Either that or build a whole new Houston to Austin line seperately.
The nifty thing about Austin is that you have relatively short travel up and down the 125mph rebuilt corridor from the DFW area down the I-35 corridor to 'all those cities too close for true effective HSR'. Likewise either from Houston west, or Austin east/southeast, on what starts as regional rail and might grow ultimately into interurban-grade connection of communities between those cities, again that the rocket train could not serve.
I believe that even "connecting" via Houston the high-speed time from Dallas to Austin will be competitively short, but the HST/PRIIA service from Dallas to Austin offers more inexpensive travel as well as more connections... and perhaps a better route with fewer complications for the Amtrak LD service.
Haha, Dining Car Server. Poor guy or gal gets to microwave some Swanson TV dinner and serve it to a sleeping car patron who overpaid for "free meals". Yeah, it's passable, but not for what you paid for the sleeper. I've been on the Builder, Eagle, Chief, and the city of New Orleans more than once. I'll be back when there's some real food.
To return to the topics of scenery and ride quality on Amtrak's "Texas Eagle" -- the line between St. Louis and Poplar Bluff is a roller coaster because it traverses the Ozark foothhills, which at least partially accounts for the rough ride. As such it offers scenery, but the "Eagle" traverses this segment at night. I've ridden it when the northbound train was hours late, and gotten some good views and photos looking out the rear door. I was delighted, as this is one of my favorite stretches of railroad, being the route of MoP's original "Texas Eagle," one of my favorites.
Just south of St. Louis, the tracks run on a bluff above the Mississippi River for a few miles. However, due to scheduling, this segment is covered in darkness, except maybe close to the summer solstice.
The Mississippi River crossing at St. Louis is worth viewing, too. The northbound schedule covers this in daylight, southbound in daylight probably only late spring, summer, and early fall, assuming on-time.
CMStPnP TC cannot incorporate that via their existing line as it is too far East, you have to look at a map of Texas to understand that Austin is a lot more West then North of Houston. So for TC to build Dallas-Austin-Houston would have introduced a major dog leg to their line and slowed the Dallas to Houston Time. Either that or build a whole new Houston to Austin line seperately.
Clearly the latter. The Dallas-Houston line (via, kinda-sorta, College Station) is a 'done' routing that goes nowhere near Austin, or anything else in the I-35 corridor either. A TC 'capital' line might make sense as a second service, perhaps run as an elbow extension from Houston using the same high-speed stock but NOT having Austin as a midpoint.
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When I took the Eagle from Chicago to Dallas in October six years ago, it was a very smooth ride all the way, and within 20 minutes of being on time both ways. The only problems were an Amtrak conductor with anger management issues on the Little Rock segment and a baby getting changed in coach. Whooooey! Had everyone in the whole car gasping for air.
GrampWhen I took the Eagle from Chicago to Dallas in October six years ago, it was a very smooth ride all the way, and within 20 minutes of being on time both ways. The only problems were an Amtrak conductor with anger management issues on the Little Rock segment and a baby getting changed in coach. Whooooey! Had everyone in the whole car gasping for air.
Almost everytime I ride it, it is on time but I choose days in which the UP is largely asleep with most of its employees at home for the holidays. I made the mistake once of riding it in mid-summer during a traffic surge. 4 hours late into Dallas Southbound.
JPS1 As a sign of the changed times, the engineer, conductor and assistant conductor were women. No. 22 arrived at Taylor 10 minutes early and departed one minute early by my watch.
Not that big a deal. I'm familiar with female conductors and collectors on Metra and NICTD and female engineers on BNSF operating Metra trains.
CSSHEGEWISCH JPS1 As a sign of the changed times, the engineer, conductor and assistant conductor were women. No. 22 arrived at Taylor 10 minutes early and departed one minute early by my watch. Not that big a deal. I'm familiar with female conductors and collectors on Metra and NICTD and female engineers on BNSF operating Metra trains.
True! But this is the first time that I saw an all female crew. I have known one of the conductors for several years, and I have seen the female engineer in Fort Worth twice.
One of the San Antonio based conductors that I have known for years told me that some of the guys in Fort Worth ragged a bit on the lady engineer when she first came on board. Apparently she put them in their place in no short order.
that was wild, he is lucky he did not fall off or get arrested. The train did stop but I guess they would not let him on so he hopped down and walked away. I never stray far from train but he looked like he was not on it, did not see him get off, just walking from the front. About how the conductor would report delay, a friend is retired BNSF engineer and tell the story of being dive bombed by a private plane going over a bridge in upper IL. He pulled up at the last minute and friend wondered how he would tell dispatch he hit a plane. Parents and I were in Buffalo returning home from Niagara Falls for hours, one of the "perks" of a pass. We watched people running for their trains down a incline, one guy with his fishing pole made it, but a family did not. Mom said we had better not miss it after waiting so long We had lunch in the cafe and came back for dinner, the server said "still here" and Dad said "pass" and she knew what he meant.
I think the conductor should have waited too, it was not that long, only a couple of minutes, he had to see him waving and running before they pulled out but the guy was a fool for jumping and hanging on the train.Some can be jerks, Dad ran into one on New York Central, he said when Dad handed him the pass, "you people and your damn passes". Dad told him "we are part of the same industry and one of the perks of my job. Even if you don't want to use yours or don't like it, I do want to use mine." The guy never said another word. Conductors do take cash fares, before Covid, but not now. That is why they still carry the punch, I found out a couple of years ago from a conductor on River Runner. So I have been carrying a notebook the last couple of years on trips and get them to punch on page and they sign in with name and train #, the first guy started that so all have followed. When I was on Saluki last year, conductor had ace of spades punch and then he joked I jinxed him as a man and kid got on with cash fares and he had to use the punch, he had only been conductor a couple of months and it was his first time to use the punch. Mom used to help her father sort his paperwork, tickets, cash, passes, lots of work, but not now with just scan ticket or phone. Mom did say passes required more paperwork, so probably whey the NYC conductor did not like Dad using a pass, but it was part of the job and wrong to complain about having to do it.
Have read all the comments and very interesting. I usually sit in lounge car when I am traveling with friends, but when I take a roomette, I usually just stay there, except I will take walks thru the train at times. I have never been south of St. Louis on Eagle, except with local AAR railfan group riding the first southbound to stop at Arcadia, which was a new stop for them. But Eagle is late many times coming into St. Louis, a lot of freights mostly UP from what I hear messes up their schedule. When I going to Chi to catch City of New Orleans later in day, I take the 6:40 am train north and many times I will get Eagle passengers on with me, because they have announced it is 2-3 hours late and people can switch if they choose, one time we were so crowded, conductors had to get people to not sprawl over 2 seats and break up family groups. One time there was a shootout in the train at Dallas station a few years, heard about that on our local news. PD was following a suspicious man and woman in station recognized as known drug dealers, when the cops boarded the train, the guy started shooting, people were running and jumping off the train, cops did kill the guy and arrest her. Car had to be cut out as crime scene and people moved to other cars. I think it was really late that day. And one time I was riding from Springfield, IL with friends, we had went up to see new Lincoln Museum and my cousin had never rode a train. A terrible storm hit in Springfield late in afternoon and we ran back to station, as sky was green. Eagle was about an hour late arriving, but it had cleared up and sun was out. We did OK to Alton, IL and had to stop, Signals out, derailment up ahead, buses finally came to take the crew off, and I went out to talk to Amtrak rep about us, they said as long as we were only going to St. Louis we could ride along, so we did. I did call Julie the next day and train was 20 hours late, But neither incidents were their fault. My cousin said her first train ride would be her last, but she did go with me another time to Hermann with a group to visit wineries.
About food, friends and I were on CZ May of '19 taking the train into CO and picking up rental car to drive to Utah for 150 Golden Spike event. We had a "real" diner, one friend got his fav signature steak, other friend got her chicken and I got my grilled salmon. We had same meals on return trip. When I rode Builder, Starlight and SW Chief in early 2000's, it was great meals too. But when I rode CONO for the first time in 2016, it was not what I expected. Dinner upon boarding, was chicken, a salad or deli sandwich. I chose the deli and salami and cheese were good but other meats were fatty so I pushed them aside. Breakfast was scrambled eggs, etc, and dinner on return was pasta probably microwaved, so they had already downgraded. I remember reading about their regional meals with red beans and rice, etc. but that was no longer served. Same meals in 2018, have not been able to get back with Bonnet Carre spillway open for weeks and busing, and this year virus, so have not had the new "improved" meals yet. At least I will get a free drink, but some do not sound too bad. Nothing can compare with the way the diner was in the days I rode with parents and friends, linen tablecloths, real china with RR logo, silverware and glasses, and even a guy would brush off the breadcrumbs into a little dustpan. Anyone was welcome, as we always traveled coach and maybe Pullman got seated before us if they were waiting, but same food. I have heard airlines no longer serve real meals, maybe some snacks, I do not about overseas, have not known anybody who has gone TWA did a first class job with food, have not flown since 2003 and no reason to do so. That was on American who had just taken over TWA returning from San Fran, with my friend, I had taken Builder and Starlight out to meet her, left 5 days earlier. And I remember watching movies in the Sightseer Lounge on the trains, they were first class movies same as theaters were showing,
To the question [from: Lthonia Operator] about Yemassee, So. Carolina.....
Last time I was there [Spring of 1961]:
Heading to Parris Island Recruit Training, We were marched to the Recruit Training Receiving ( buses were not running, right then) from the RR Station... About the only people waiting for a train out, were traveling FROM Parris Island; they were riding on tickets provded by USMC....
Yesterday was a special treat for those of us that watch Number 21, the southbound Texas Eagle. It had two North Coast Limited cars sandwiched between the locomotive and the transition sleeper.
Both were dome cars. One of them had coach seats near the rear of the car and lounge seats near the front, along with the dome seats. The other was a sleeper. The cars looked like they had just been outshopped. They were beautiful.
This is the first time that I have seen private cars behind an Amtrak locomotive in regular service. I suspect they were placed there so that any passengers that wanted to do so could go to the dining car. Or maybe the operator had contracted with Amtrak to bring meals to the riders.
I saw just two persons on the cars. They may have been the owners or employees. I was not able to determine where the cars had been picked up or where they were going.
If I remember correctly, the cars had a small decal: WERN followed by a number. Anyone recognize them?
It might be appropriate to mention on this Thread: "The Shortest Eagle" whch operated from 1941 to 1954 (Fall, I think?) by The Missouri Pacific.
It Ran daily from Memphis to Tallulah, La; via Marianna,Ar, Helena,Ar,Lakeview,Ar. McGehee, Ar,Lake Village Ar. and to Tallulah...West of the Vicksburg, Ms area. The stop at Helena was interesting, because it required a long back up move to get to the station. Helena was served by a rairoad car ferry from Friar's Pt, Ms[ Connection was with ICRR] to Helena.Ar.
The Delta Eagle utilized a EMD[ ID: was as AA6 model] a 1 of a kind power built in 1940, it resembled the original 'shovel nose' E style. Had 1 engine, a baggage compartment, and a small aux power unit. the train was an RPO with a small food service area, and seating, and the second car was a coach. During its period of operation,[ the passengers rode in segregayed accomodations.] IT sometimes ran with additional cars, as needed, and plower as required.
The Helena line had been part of the service provided by the Missouri&North Arkansas RR before it went 'out' in the late 1940's. For information[M&NARR] see linked @ https://encyclopediaofarkansas.net/entries/missouri-and-north-arkansas-railroad-5103/
REF to link @ https://www.condrenrails.com/MRP/MemphisUnionStation/MP-Memphis-Pass-Pixs.htm
The last run of No. 21 left Chicago on Friday. It has been tied up in San Antonio since Saturday due to inclement weather. Oh well, assuming they are not iced in, the Chicago based on-board staff should have ample opportunity to explore the Alamo City. The next offering of #22 is for Friday, February 19th.
What happened to the notion that passenger trains run in all kinds of weather while the airlines are grounded and buses cannot run on icy roads?
It's not just passenger operators. You'd be surprised at how much freight gets parked during periods of 'tough weather'.
The railroads simply don't have as much extra manpower or capacity as they did in the past. You can automate and "schedule" things all you want, but during tough times you still need people to fix frozen switches and signals, not to mention the air brake and locomotive problems that show up in cold weather.
The passenger operators have obviously decided that they will get less bad publicity from cancelling trains than they would from a few stranded trains full of passengers.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70DudeIt's not just passenger operators. You'd be surprised at how much freight gets parked during periods of 'tough weather'. The railroads simply don't have as much extra manpower or capacity as they did in the past. You can automate and "schedule" things all you want, but during tough times you still need people to fix frozen switches and signals, not to mention the air brake and locomotive problems that show up in cold weather. The passenger operators have obviously decided that they will get less bad publicity from cancelling trains than they would from a few stranded trains full of passengers.
There has always been one thing that has EVER kept the railroads operating during bad weather.
MANPOWER
21st Century railroad do not possess the level of manpower required to operate in severe Winter conditions.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
JPS1 What happened to the notion that passenger trains run in all kinds of weather while the airlines are grounded and buses cannot run on icy roads?
People have realized that it is stupid to endanger the lives of passengers and crew just to have a macho title. People have been told to not travel in much of the country due to the weather. If the roads are too icy for buses, people should not be out to go get on the train.
An "expensive model collector"
JPS1What happened to the notion that passenger trains run in all kinds of weather while the airlines are grounded and buses cannot run on icy roads?
You can't have all weather railroad operations without MANPOWER. 21st Century railroads do not have sufficient manpower.
The carriers acknowledge that fact by curtailing their operations.
The Dinosaurs can have all weather operation if they are willing to have the additional 100K to 300K body's wages placed on their personal tab for the entire year.
JPS1The on-board staff of No. 21, which arrived in San Antonio on Saturday, February 13th, got to experience a lot more of San Antonio than maybe they had expected or wanted. Thanks to the severe winter storms that swept through Texas, they have been stuck in the Alamo City ever since. Ah, but good news. No. 22 is scheduled to resume operations tomorrow morning, February 23rd. If a bit a bad weather cancels a train for more than a week, just how critical is it to the nation’s mobility requirements? If we can do without the Texas Eagle for more than a week, we can do without it period!
If we can do without Texas for more than a week, should we give it back to Mexico?
BaltACD JPS1 The on-board staff of No. 21, which arrived in San Antonio on Saturday, February 13th, got to experience a lot more of San Antonio than maybe they had expected or wanted. Thanks to the severe winter storms that swept through Texas, they have been stuck in the Alamo City ever since. Ah, but good news. No. 22 is scheduled to resume operations tomorrow morning, February 23rd. If a bit a bad weather cancels a train for more than a week, just how critical is it to the nation’s mobility requirements? If we can do without the Texas Eagle for more than a week, we can do without it period! If we can do without Texas for more than a week, should we give it back to Mexico?
JPS1 The on-board staff of No. 21, which arrived in San Antonio on Saturday, February 13th, got to experience a lot more of San Antonio than maybe they had expected or wanted. Thanks to the severe winter storms that swept through Texas, they have been stuck in the Alamo City ever since. Ah, but good news. No. 22 is scheduled to resume operations tomorrow morning, February 23rd. If a bit a bad weather cancels a train for more than a week, just how critical is it to the nation’s mobility requirements? If we can do without the Texas Eagle for more than a week, we can do without it period!
Only if Mexico pays for a wall around their new territory!
LD trains appear to be a relic from 50+ years ago. They are not transportation for the most part; they're just land cruisers and a vehicle to get congressional support for Amtrak funding.
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