charlie hebdo CUS 1943 https://m.ebay.com/itm/UNION-STATION-INTERIOR-CHICAGO-JACK-DELANO-1943-8x10-SILVER-HALIDE-PHOTO-PRINT/362702622375?ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-53200-19255-0%2F1%3Fmpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252FUNION-STATION-INTERIOR-CHICAGO-JACK-DELANO-1943-8x10-SILVER-HALIDE-PHOTO-PRINT%252F362702622375%253Fhash%253Ditem5472c2cea7%253Ag%253A6qcAAOSwGJFag0P3%26campid%3D5338328385%26toolid%3D20008%26srcrot%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D2044928021178%26rvr_ts%3D02e89d5016c0a4b60dc50400ffdddfb7&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true
CUS 1943
https://m.ebay.com/itm/UNION-STATION-INTERIOR-CHICAGO-JACK-DELANO-1943-8x10-SILVER-HALIDE-PHOTO-PRINT/362702622375?ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-53200-19255-0%2F1%3Fmpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252FUNION-STATION-INTERIOR-CHICAGO-JACK-DELANO-1943-8x10-SILVER-HALIDE-PHOTO-PRINT%252F362702622375%253Fhash%253Ditem5472c2cea7%253Ag%253A6qcAAOSwGJFag0P3%26campid%3D5338328385%26toolid%3D20008%26srcrot%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D2044928021178%26rvr_ts%3D02e89d5016c0a4b60dc50400ffdddfb7&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true
https://www.ebay.com/itm/UNION-STATION-INTERIOR-CHICAGO-JACK-DELANO-1943-8x10-SILVER-HALIDE-PHOTO-PRINT/362702622375?ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-53200-19255-0%2F1%3Fmpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fitm%252FUNION-STATION-INTERIOR-CHICAGO-JACK-DELANO-1943-8x10-SILVER-HALIDE-PHOTO-PRINT%252F362702622375%253Fhash%253Ditem5472c2cea7%253Ag%253A6qcAAOSwGJFag0P3%26campid%3D5338328385%26toolid%3D20008%26srcrot%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D2044928021178%26rvr_ts%3D02e89d5016c0a4b60dc50400ffdddfb7&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true
Sunnyland, you brought pleasant memories back to me, even though I was never in Los Angeles until the fall of 1971--and I did not see the interior of the station then, for I came down from Oakland late on the train from Seattle, and the Sunset was held for us. I did appreciate the interior, complete with the comfortable seats about six months laater. Later trips, with my wife, also gave us pleasant memories.
There is now a restaurant that serves dinner where the ticket area was.
Johnny
Have always wanted to get back to see that station, only one I remember with big overstuffed chairs to sit in and have seen them on recent TV shows too. Boarded there with tour group years ago to go to San Fran and 3 years later left from there on UP All Pullman City of Los Angeles with 2 friends. We were waiting in line and I was walking around and saw one line for Pullman and one line for coach. The lady at info desk had told us the wrong line, so I asked, we were in a Pullman bedroom and she immediately told us to get out of coach line and get into Pullman one and apologized. I guess she didn't think 3 gals barely out of their teens was traveling Pullman. We did it because none of us wanted to sit by ourselves on the train with a stranger in coach. Was not that expensive, about $50.00 for each of us which did include regular fare and Pullman add-on. One slept in upper and 2 of us on lower with our own bathroom. That was a fancy train with more lounges even round end obs on the rear and a dome diner. At Ogden, we were switched over to UP City of St. Louis, the only time I have ever rode in a Pullman car. Remember my friends who had too much luggage pushing a shopping cart up the ramp to the train, I only had two small cases so could easily walk up. Great memories.
charlie hebdo Maybe CUS should consider dual level and multiple through tracks to allow for expansion.
Maybe CUS should consider dual level and multiple through tracks to allow for expansion.
As for second level, CUS Company sold the air rights long ago. The old Harrison tower, enclosed by the Post Office building, is the only thing the railroad has up in the air. That because it couldn't be replaced on the PO bldg construction schedule. Operationally, the north end still has that horrible 16 degree curve at Canal Street.
This is a forum about railroads, not a display of the divisive, Red-scare tactics of neo-fascism.
A socialist convention was just held in Chicago, the city of big shoulders. It was about selling the abolishment of capitalism in a palatable way. Melding it in with hot button issues of the day. Climate change and such.
One of the areas of attention. Dissolving family structure. Families are considered a key underpinning of capitalism.
And we think about shoehorning more trains into the Loop.
charlie hebdoThe quote attributed to Daniel Burnham, "Make no little plans." was the motto that built Chicago, not, forget about it.
Don't forget this came out of a speech in which he called explicitly for overhead duplication of key transportation facilities. With a shout-out to ace Canadian figure William Van Horne.
But those were the days doers could do, and not be discouraged. Now we have a nation increasingly saprophytic, more prepared to trade and sponge than actually create wealth or welfare instead of euphemistically redefining the terms. Where's the pre-Daley democratic spirit when we need it?
I know
No tracks made it useless as a train station.
Last time I looked, Dearborn Station is still standing. The tracks were removed as part of the Dearborn Park project. Grand Central was always a minor station in Chicago and I believe that it was torn down prior to Amtrak.
The quote attributed to Daniel Burnham, "Make no little plans." was the motto that built Chicago, not, forget about it.
As the race to the moon reaches it's 50th anniversary, I have to wonder where our can do, spirit of excellence went?
Too bad the Grand Central and Dearborn depots were razed.
charlie hebdoFor the future expansion needs, what's a better alternative?
I don't think there is one, as things are now. (The only real 'alternative' I can see is some kind of very sophisticated combination of CBTC and PSR that gets trains more quickly in and out of the actual terminal plant, perhaps with elevated storage or holding tracks 'far enough out' to be more cost-effective to build and access. I wouldn't want to have to administer such a thing on a good day, let alone when Murphy's ghost and Mr. Finagle start to play.)
The point here is that overhead structure requires much more expensive attention than 'breaking out a few walls' at ground level. More so if it involves 'bridges' of any kind with limited approach and departure angle.
Expect the property value of any structure in the 'air rights' in that area to become increasingly "valuable" with respect to an eminent-domain taking. At least, as soon as the authorities start dedicating actual substantial funds to the double-decking alternative, and property-tax minimization stops being a real-estate priority...
I presume at least one bright-spark consultant has thought about tunnelling down, rather than building up. I can see a number of problems with this, not least among them that the whole installation including some portion of the approaches would likely have to be 'levee'd' in some kind of concrete cofferdam structure. The folks doing the Hudson Yards and 'Gateway tunnel box' may have distinctive competence in figuring out if this could be cost-effective. My own suspicion would be that a little Boring Company TBM action with relatively large bore could be engaged, sequentially under the existing terminal plant during relatively off-peak hours where some tracks could be idled at a time without prejudicing full use on-peak, with appropriate facilities for platforms and approach access cast into the tunnel walls as they are positioned or slip-cast. Then break laterally between the individual bores as desired, including bridges between adjacent platforms partially within the tunnel headroom where those are wanted for rapid clearing of full trainloads.
Be surprised if this could be built without billyuns and billyuns that neither Cook County nor Illinois will have much chance of getting. And in any case, there remains a backlog of NEC projects with higher priority, even if we leave New York/New Jersey commuters-subsidized-with-Amtrak-development-efforts out of the comparison.
For the future expansion needs, what's a better alternative?
CMStPnP CSSHEGEWISCH Consider that the existing CUS approaches have major structures above the tracks from Polk St on the south to Lake St on the north. The approach to Fort Worth Intermodal Terminal (Amtrak / TRE) had a large structure smack across the projected approach from the North into the station. They just cut a tunnel through the building and bricked off the new exposure to the outside. Building is still in use but now with two approach tracks running through part of it, owner was compensated for loss of space. Buildings in the way are really not a show stopper.
CSSHEGEWISCH Consider that the existing CUS approaches have major structures above the tracks from Polk St on the south to Lake St on the north.
The approach to Fort Worth Intermodal Terminal (Amtrak / TRE) had a large structure smack across the projected approach from the North into the station. They just cut a tunnel through the building and bricked off the new exposure to the outside. Building is still in use but now with two approach tracks running through part of it, owner was compensated for loss of space. Buildings in the way are really not a show stopper.
From rags to riches to rags in how many generations?
HA! I'm not against regulation. I'm all for regulation AND the smart-n-savvy enriching themselves with it.
We wouldn't have all the cool war-toys, freeways, airports, transit systems, and the rest of American wasteful bling if it wasn't for the smart-n-savvy people extracting all the loot they can out of the government.
I know if I was a contractor I'd milk an EIR for all it was worth (which is all I said in my previous post). Looting the government is one of THEE most honorable professions that exists. It's one of the primary reasons Federal, State, and Local government exists.
blue streak 1o the nearest fault to the 101 crossing is about 1 mile ? Of course there are always unknown faults. IMHO the engineering should be sufficient ?
There are several nearby named faults, found another map for ya: http://scedc.caltech.edu/significant/index.html
As I said before, I have confidence that the design will be 'strong enough' within a 'reasonable' budget. Seismic forces can come from the local faults or the more distant, well known San Andreas that is known to produce very large displacements.
Just noticed that C.C. Myers declared Chapter 7 and is no more, CalTrans needs to find another saviour .
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
CSSHEGEWISCHConsider that the existing CUS approaches have major structures above the tracks from Polk St on the south to Lake St on the north.
So the nearest fault to the 101 crossing is about 1 mile ? Of course there are always unknown faults. IMHO the engineering should be sufficient ?
http://dap3.dot.ca.gov/ARS_Online/index.php
blue streak 1What we are looking for is what magnitude quake will the viaducts be built to ? There is a limit to [what] engineering can design.
Ah, not really. It's all a matter of a) Risk and b) How Much Money Ya Got?
In Cali civil engineers always, always have to factor seismic factors in structure design. Caltrans has some guidelines, see here: http://dap3.dot.ca.gov/ARS_Online/index.php An important factor is distance from a known fault.
In parts of the midwest the next big New Madrid fault event will bring down a lot of road bridges and buildings (with tragic consequences), but railroad bridges may hold up if they were designed stout for steam engine load factors.
Civil engineers, please step in to correct or clarify.
blue streak 1 What we are looking for is what magnitude quake will the viaducts be built to ? There is a limit to engineering can design. There is also the problem if the earth under the viaduct has a separation or slip slide ? The last just 7.1 earthquake was a slip slide that moved how many feet ?
What we are looking for is what magnitude quake will the viaducts be built to ? There is a limit to engineering can design. There is also the problem if the earth under the viaduct has a separation or slip slide ? The last just 7.1 earthquake was a slip slide that moved how many feet ?
That is most likely to happen along fault lines. I would suspect they would avoid building a bridge over a mapped active fault.
blue streak 1The main concern in our opinion is .------- How earth quake resistant will the viaduct over the free way be designed to ? And remember there are several different quakes each with its unique quake shaking.
So far I have faith in the engineering firms (and sometimes Caltrans) that build and retrofit highways here in Cali. Every major quake teaches a new lesson and construction improves; fortunately we can call on contractors like C.C. Myers to fix things when disasters happen.
IIRC building codes do not apply to railroad construction so thorough reviews (EIS or other) overseen by the gov't are appropriate. They also may not apply to certain Privara compatible towns in Texas where homes were damaged by a fracking related magnitude two earthquake - WTH?
When I travel east of here I'm astonished at the spindly construction of some of the elevated roadways. A random wayward semi-truck or the next New Madrid fault event probably will bring them down.
blue streak 1 The main concern in our opinion is .-------How earth quake resistant will the viaduct over the free way be designedto ? And remember there are several different quakes each with its unique quake shaking.
The main concern in our opinion is .-------How earth quake resistant will the viaduct over the free way be designedto ? And remember there are several different quakes each with its unique quake shaking.
Good point, which those anti-regulation types like Privara tend to overlook.
CMStPnPThey (EIS) do increase costs and in many cases are redundant. ...
There may be some overlap between an EIS and, as an example, an engineering study, but both may be done by the same engineering firm, so the cost should only be for the incremental printing. An EIS is the price you pay for participatory democracy. It also may find problems that would be more costly to fix when discovered later.
I recall a TV program about Union Station in the early 70s which was about how it was used in the Barbra Streisand movie, "The Way We Were." It dealt with the lonely station master who remembered the great trains back in the day, the era that the movie depicted and how it was all over. People don't take trains anymore and Union Station was a ghost town and there he was, still on the job. Oh the irony. I never saw that film but I do own a copy of "Union Station" with William Holden- it's as classic a film as was ever made. There are scenes on the Chicago freight subway too, but I think we all know that.
JOHN PRIVARARe: Does anybody consider the fact that EIS delays cause the cost of the project to go up?
They do increase costs and in many cases are redundant. You know they have to do a EIS just for adding a new Amtrak train to an existing Amtrak route. They have to do one for the second Chicago to Twin Cities Empire Builder route for the second train there. The last remaining steps are an EIS and operational plan submitted together and then when approved they can seek federal funding.
In the case of the Second Empire Builder funding was denied by first Minnesota and then Wisconsin for this year 2019. Both states said they would try again in their next year respective legislature sessions. MN will try again in 2020, I am not sure when Wisconsin's legislature meets again. State subsidy for first year start up and operation was to be $10 million from each state (MN & WI). Rough projected ridership 155,000 per year. Final ridership forecast was to be in operational plan.
The EIS requirement was included in the National Environmental Policy Act when it was first enacted in 1973.
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