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Deterioration of Amtrak Service

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, January 10, 2019 9:04 PM

Shock Control
True dat.

It makes me simultaneously happy and sad that Amtrak still clings to old route names like the Capitol Limited, suggesting a glamorous, bygone era of rail travel, when you're riding on something a notch or two above a commuter rail. I can only assume that they are not using a B&O E unit for the locomotive.  ;)

Nor do they have the Napanee or Wawasee 5BR Observation/lounge cars bringing up the markers and EOT.

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Posted by Shock Control on Thursday, January 10, 2019 7:43 PM

NKP guy
...Still, having to carry one's own cocktail mixes, shakers and stirrers seems a minor inconvenience compared to customers/passengers on the Lake Shore Limited and Capitol Limited now having to bring along their own food.

True dat.

It makes me simultaneously happy and sad that Amtrak still clings to old route names like the Capitol Limited, suggesting a glamorous, bygone era of rail travel, when you're riding on something a notch or two above a commuter rail. I can only assume that they are not using a B&O E unit for the locomotive.  ;)

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Posted by NKP guy on Thursday, January 10, 2019 7:19 PM

Shock Control
In this era of craft cocktails, pop-up bars, neo-speakeasies, pre-Prohibition cocktails, and emphasis on fresh, high-end indgredients, this is what you get on a long-distance Amtrak trip. It's one thing to settle for a Bacardi and coke on a two-hour plane trip, but if I'm stuck on a train for two days and these are my options, I would consider flying.

 

   Remember that if one travels in a roomette or bedroom one can do as many people have for years:  mix one's own own drinks.  One can easily mix one's own cocktails in the Amtrak-provided clear plastic cup, add some AmIce, and then take one's drink into the observation or lounge car.  Just be discreet.  Or simply stay in your room and enjoy the ride from that fine location.

   The real trick in Amtrak travel is adding some whiskey to the aforesaid cup with AmIce, while traveling via Acela; one hates to be obvious, n'est ce pas?

   Still, having to carry one's own cocktail mixes, shakers and stirrers seems a minor inconvenience compared to customers/passengers on the Lake Shore Limited and Capitol Limited now having to bring along their own food.

 

 

   

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Posted by Shock Control on Thursday, January 10, 2019 4:54 PM

Deggesty
As to corn-syrup free mixers, nothing is said

As to spirits: (from the Coast Starlight menu found on Amtrak's website; this is the standard offering)

Premium Spirits ...........................................................7.50

Spirits  – Jack Daniel’s Black Label, Dewar’s Scotch, Finlandia Vodka,    Tanqueray Gin, Bacardi Rum   

Mixers – Club Soda, Tonic Water, Ginger Ale, Bloody Mary Mix, Orange Juice

So there you have it.

In this era of craft cocktails, pop-up bars, neo-speakeasies, pre-Prohibition cocktails, and emphasis on fresh, high-end indgredients, this is what you get on a long-distance Amtrak trip.

It's one thing to settle for a Bacardi and coke on a two-hour plane trip, but if I'm stuck on a train for two days and these are my options, I would consider flying.

On second thought, the Jack Daniels with club soda isn't too bad.

I write this drinking an Old-Fashioned using a California mandarin, Bada Bing cherries, bitters, Demerara sugar syrup, spring water ice, and Jim Beam Pre-Prohibition Rye.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, January 10, 2019 2:27 PM

On my last trip (1980) before Amtrak tried its McDonald experiment, I enjoyed some Benedictine on the Sunset Limited. I do not remember what else was available. After that trip, I paid little attention to what strong waters were available.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, January 10, 2019 2:00 PM

Shock Control
155 replies and not a single mention of cocktails.  Does Amtrak serve cocktails on its long-distance trips, and if so, do they use fresh, corn-syrup-free mixers? 

Back when the Superliners were new they had an upper level attendant in the Lounge Car that staffed the upper mini-bar.    I can't remember if he mixed the drinks himself or distributed the mini-bottles.     It was more passenger convienent than having to descend and reclimb the steps to the eating lounge everytime you wanted a soda.

They also used to have an electric piano down stairs against the opposite wall where the food is sold now.

Also remember on the Empire Builder of the 1970's if you were in the Vista Dome the car attendent would take drink orders at your seat and bring the drink to you.

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Posted by JPS1 on Thursday, January 10, 2019 1:55 PM

NKP guy
 Money spent/invested on Amtrak is, in part, spent/invested on infrastructure. 

Since its inception U.S. taxpayers have invested approximately $25.9 billion (nominal dollars) in Amtrak’s infrastructure, which for these purposes is defined as the property, plant and equipment required for its activity.
 
The approximate investments before depreciation have been: locomotives ($2.76 billion), passenger cars and other rolling stock ($4.56 billion), and right-of-way and other properties ($25.9 billion).  The information is taken from the company’s Consolidated Balance Sheet for the Year Ended September 30, 2017.
 
The difference between the monies received from the federal government and the total taxpayer outlays to fund Amtrak’s operations is $21.4 billion, which presumably has been used to cover operating expenses. 
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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, January 10, 2019 11:32 AM

Backshop
Everybody wants the govt to be frugal, except for when it comes to their pet projects.  How many times have you heard "my congresscritter is great, it's all the rest that suck"?

And thus the House always has 434 idiots and 'my guy or girl'.

Would it be beneficial to have a Amendment to the Constitution where in 'the nation' votes for 'your district's Representative' and you vote for or against the Representatives in all the districts EXCEPT yours?

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, January 10, 2019 11:29 AM

Shock Control

155 replies and not a single mention of cocktails.  Does Amtrak serve cocktails on its long-distance trips, and if so, do they use fresh, corn-syrup-free mixers? 

 

As to corn-syrup free mixers, nothing is said.

As to spirits: (from the Coast Starlight menu found on Amtrak's website; this is the standard offering)

Premium Spirits ...........................................................7.50

Spirits  – Jack Daniel’s Black Label, Dewar’s Scotch, Finlandia Vodka,    Tanqueray Gin, Bacardi Rum   

Mixers – Club Soda, Tonic Water, Ginger Ale, Bloody Mary Mix, Orange Juice

Johnny

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Posted by Shock Control on Thursday, January 10, 2019 9:56 AM

155 replies and not a single mention of cocktails.  Does Amtrak serve cocktails on its long-distance trips, and if so, do they use fresh, corn-syrup-free mixers? 

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Posted by NKP guy on Thursday, January 10, 2019 8:26 AM

   Well, I can say with certitude that it most definitely would not have been spent on education or medical care for the poor.  

   Money spent/invested on Amtrak is, in part, spent/invested on infrastructure.

   

   

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Posted by Backshop on Thursday, January 10, 2019 7:58 AM

Everybody wants the govt to be frugal, except for when it comes to their pet projects.  How many times have you heard "my congresscritter is great, it's all the rest that suck"?

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Posted by JPS1 on Thursday, January 10, 2019 7:49 AM

NKP guy
 JPS1 Priorities!  The money could have been better spent on infrastructure, education, medical care for the poor, etc. 

But it wouldn't have been, and you know that. 

No, I don't know that!   No one knows what would have been done if the money had not been spent on Amtrak.   
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Posted by NKP guy on Thursday, January 10, 2019 7:08 AM

JPS1
Priorities!  The money could have been better spent on infrastructure, education, medical care for the poor, etc. 

   But it wouldn't have been, and you know that.

   

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Posted by JPS1 on Wednesday, January 9, 2019 10:12 PM

NKP guy

If we take $34.7 billion in accumulated losses and divide it by 48 years, that comes to a loss of $723 million a year; right?  (My desk calculator doesn't do billions)

Forgive me for saying so, but as a taxpayer I can certainly live with that.

So what's the problem? 

Priorities!  The money could have been better spent on infrastructure, education, medical care for the poor, etc. 

The amount posted – $34.7 million - is the accumulated deficit shown in the Amtrak's FY17 Consolidated Balance Sheet.  It does not include the prior period(s) accumulated cash transfers from the federal and state governments that were capitalized and are yet to flow through the Consolidate Statement of Comprehensive Losses.

According to the Federal Railroad Administration, total federal funding in nominal dollars at the end of FY17 for Amtrak since its inception was $47.3 billion.  Restated in 2017 dollars, which have been adjusted for inflation, the amount is a tad over $81 billion.

Most of the difference between the $47.3 billion and the $34.7 billion probably lies in the funds that were capitalized for property, plant, and equipment in prior period(s) and are flowing through the income statement as depreciation, interest and miscellaneous expenses. 

In FY17 Amtrak received $2.3 billion from federal and state governments.  Where did it go?  Some of it - $355 million – went to cover the company’s cash shortfalls from operations.  Some of it - $1.6 billion – was used to purchase and/or refurbish property, plant, and equipment, and some of it was used to service the company’s long-term debt. 

The amounts that were capitalized as property, plant, and equipment, depending on the nature of the assets, could take decades to flow through the Consolidated Statement of Operations and, therefore, be embed in the accumulated deficit as shown in the company’s Consolidated Balance Sheet.

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Posted by NKP guy on Wednesday, January 9, 2019 9:13 PM

   If we take $34.7 billion in accumulated losses and divide it by 48 years, that comes to a loss of $723 million a year; right?  (My desk calculator doesn't do billions)

   Forgive me for saying so, but as a taxpayer I can certainly live with that.

   So what's the problem?

 

 

   

 

 

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Posted by JPS1 on Wednesday, January 9, 2019 12:28 PM

Backshop
 NKP guy  

Really?  Your insight comes as something of a shock to those of us who have been Amtrak's customers/passengers for the past 48 years.

You're right.  It's a thriving, expanding profitable operation.  I must have forgotten...

.......that Amtrak had accumulated losses of $34.7 billion as of the end of FY17.  Or that it needed $2.2 billion in federal and state government monies in FY17 to stay viable.    

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, January 9, 2019 10:05 AM

alphas
The second was the unforseen power of the Amtrak labor unions (similar to the unanticipated power of the Fed employees unions at that time) which has been a major barrier to any attempts to modernize or change Amtrak for the better.    Also, eliminating Amtrak service employees who aren't good with people but otherwise follow the rules is like trying to fire Federal employees or tenured teachers.     Hence the wide varience in Amtrak emplyees' customer service.

When it comes to dealing with Unions, companies that can present factual cases for discipline can make progress and live with their Unions.  Those that just try to bluster their way through Union relations are always at war with their Unions and make no progress for the betterment of the company.

Union agreements are just that agreements by both sides to uphold a standard of conduct in the workplace between the parties.  Historically, company's don't want to live by the conditions they AGREED to, and the war starts.

You're Fired is not a factual discipline case.

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Posted by alphas on Wednesday, January 9, 2019 9:48 AM

I was told by researchers studying Amtrak that 2 things have basically killed whatever chance Amtrak had to progress forward since its start.   The first was the arrival of the discount airlines which totally changed both the airline and travel industries.     The second was the unforseen power of the Amtrak labor unions (similar to the unanticipated power of the Fed employees unions at that time) which has been a major barrier to any attempts to modernize or change Amtrak for the better.    Also, eliminating Amtrak service employees who aren't good with people but otherwise follow the rules is like trying to fire Federal employees or tenured teachers.     Hence the wide varience in Amtrak emplyees' customer service.

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, January 9, 2019 7:17 AM

NKP guy

 

 
Backshop
Amtrak failed the day that it started.

 

Really?  Your insight comes as something of a shock to those of us who have been Amtrak's customers/passengers for the past 48 years.

 

You're right.  It's a thriving, expanding profitable operation.  I must have forgotten...

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, January 8, 2019 9:58 PM

A thought.  Memory fails and no other around to fill in.  Exactly when was the the  first discovery of the major problems at NYP under Wick or the accidents that precipated those discoveries   ?  Had Anderson beeen announced as the  co president yet ?  The implications of why the board choose  Anderson can implied by what time he was nominated,

Did board not like being told that deferred maintenance had passed a dangerous point is one question ?

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, January 8, 2019 8:07 PM

Here is a copy from Railway age analysis of Amtrak's Gardner reply to earlier Railway age article.  Several points but the increase ( not decrease ) of deferred maintenance on the NEC increased by over $500M.  Several causes also made the loss of $868M not as bad as it could have been except by deferred maintenance.  ( Can be found in annual 2018 FY report ) and deferred delivery and ordering of equipment by $679M.  AKA the V-2 bag dorms and sleepers as one example.

Another factor is ignoring that the  revenue passenger miles for LD trains exceed the NEC.  However not noted is revenue from the NEC is higher due to much higher NEC fares or state SD fares.  

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/urpa-responds-to-stephen-gardner/ 

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Posted by NKP guy on Tuesday, January 8, 2019 6:32 PM

Backshop
Amtrak failed the day that it started.

Really?  Your insight comes as something of a shock to those of us who have been Amtrak's customers/passengers for the past 48 years.

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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, January 8, 2019 5:21 PM

Amtrak failed the day that it started.  There's a reason the government had to take over the passenger trains.  They are a failed business model.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:40 PM

Backshop
 
Sunnyland

He sounds like Carl Icahn who did take a wrecking ball to TWA and other companies he was associated with.   

If you're comparing Richard Anderson to Carl Icahn, you have no grasp of history.  Icahn was a hostile takeover raider who bought companies to loot them.  He basically ran TWA into the ground.  Richard Anderson, on the other hand, made Delta the successful airline that it is today.  For those who think that charging for seat selection is terribel, have you ever heard of Allegiant, Frontier or Spirit Airlines.  They are all barebones carriers who are very profitable.  They give people what they want--the cheapest fare they can find.  Delta, United and American are just fighting back with their cheapest fares.  It's what many people insist on.

Anderson may have made something out of his time at Delta, his marching orders at Amtrak are to make it so bad no one will use it.

Mangers that have the ability to make things work, also have the ability to make them fail.

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Posted by Backshop on Thursday, January 3, 2019 6:24 PM

Sunnyland

He sounds like Carl Icahn who did take a wrecking ball to TWA and other companies he was associated with.  

 

If you're comparing Richard Anderson to Carl Icahn, you have no grasp of history.  Icahn was a hostile takeover raider who bought companies to loot them.  He basically ran TWA into the ground.  Richard Anderson, on the other hand, made Delta the successful airline that it is today.  For those who think that charging for seat selection is terribel, have you ever heard of Allegiant, Frontier or Spirit Airlines.  They are all barebones carriers who are very profitable.  They give people what they want--the cheapest fare they can find.  Delta, United and American are just fighting back with their cheapest fares.  It's what many people insist on.

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Posted by Sunnyland on Thursday, January 3, 2019 3:50 PM

He sounds like Carl Icahn who did take a wrecking ball to TWA and other companies he was associated with.  

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, December 31, 2018 11:38 AM

Just to reiterate--Delta is not charging extra for selecting your seat or some other things.  They came out with a new, lower fare called Basic Economy if you don't want, need or want to pay for those services.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, December 31, 2018 11:32 AM

BaltACD
Delta is one of the carriers that is doing it - I am certain Anderson is contemplating how to do it on Amtrak.

I have the same suspicions, the shoe to raise more revenue is going to drop somewhere soon.

Noted they are actually weighing the passenger checked bags now.    I wondered why that is all important but I suspect they have a weight limit in place now.   Have not looked on the Amtrak website for it though.    They are trying to limit the onboard carryons via sleeper passenger to just two max with one being a purse or laptop and the other being a carryon bag.    This is not enforced strictly yet but I see that comming too many people attempting to live out of their large suitcases on the lower level luggage rack causing issues with boarding and folks attempting to use the restroom.

So recently on the Texas Eagle the onboard attendants were telling passengers the Dining Car was really for Sleeping Car passengers and that is why they are seated first during a reserved seating time.    First time I heard that overt explanation by an Amtrak employee.    A more correct explanation would be they paid for the meals in advance but I am not going to quibble.

The onboard service crew seems to be a high percentage of new employees on the Texas Eagle of late and they were all doing a really good job at customer service and being honest and prompt on train status and train delays.     Though in both directions the Texas Eagle arrived at my destination at least 45 min prior to the scheduled arrival time.     Attribute that to lack of UP RR freights during the holiday period on the lines the Texas Eagle uses.

It seems they might go back to the old redefinition of the Superliner accomodations as I heard our sleeping car attendent refer to the roomette as the "Economy bedroom" and the regular bedroom as the "Deluxe bedroom" could be an old timer and I am just drawing the wrong conclusion.    A third class above the Bedroom would be beneficial to Amtrak's bottom line though and maybe that might be why Anderson is trying to shake the private cars?  

As mentioned in an earlier thread the menu on the Dining Car has a $39 item now for Dinner.    That is an a revenue improvement from the $25 Amtrak top steak or whatever that was max before.   Dining car crew also attempted to upsell folks to buy or pair their dinners with wine.........never saw them do that before on the Texas Eagle.     So my interpretation here is training has changed for the better with the onboard crews.

The dining car now has a cash register at one of the tables and if the Dining Car person takes cash they have to put it in the register now (lol).    Interesting change there but that was not there last year, that I noticed.

Sleeping Car attendents have somehow come up with a new method of not scanning tickets by just checking compartments after a station stop and reporting if said party is occupying them or not direct to the conductor who then enters them manually into the scanner.     This is a definite improvement.    On the way back to Chicago they were back to the conductor scanning each ticket again.   So again seems like methods and training are changing for the better and are not complete yet.

The Amtrak Cafe attendent also pushed booze on the way up to Chicago but did not mention it on the way back.   So I wonder if that was a change or just the attendent.    The sleeping car lounge in CUS serves hard liquor now.    I did not notice that before if it was there.

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Posted by Backshop on Thursday, December 27, 2018 8:11 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Backshop
I've never had Delta charge me to select a seat.  The only people they do are those that buy Basic Economy, which they just started last year in response to other airlines.

 

Just because they haven't charged you yet, doesn't mean they won't set something up to charge you in the future!  Airlines are becoming greedyier by the day.

 

Nope.

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