PJS1 BaltACD Robust bidding - dream on! If bidders do the due dilegence, they will walk away in droves. A organization with a recognizable name and menu won't be able to sell their recognizable products at the same price point as the do in their 'normal' operations and customers would rebel at the required price point. Rather than destroy their reputation, they don't need the aggrevation. Yep, the way forward is not to try anything new. Just keep on keeping on. Maybe Anderson was brought on board to get the organization to think outside of the box. I spent more than 40 years in controllership functions of a three Fortune 200 corporations. If I had a dollar for every time someone said it could not be done, I could have retired by the time I was 50. I was 68 when I hung it up.
BaltACD Robust bidding - dream on! If bidders do the due dilegence, they will walk away in droves. A organization with a recognizable name and menu won't be able to sell their recognizable products at the same price point as the do in their 'normal' operations and customers would rebel at the required price point. Rather than destroy their reputation, they don't need the aggrevation.
Yep, the way forward is not to try anything new. Just keep on keeping on. Maybe Anderson was brought on board to get the organization to think outside of the box.
I spent more than 40 years in controllership functions of a three Fortune 200 corporations. If I had a dollar for every time someone said it could not be done, I could have retired by the time I was 50. I was 68 when I hung it up.
I am not saying don't try it. Just don't expect it to solve all the problems you think it will.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD I am not saying don't try it. Just don't expect it to solve all the problems you think it will.
Outsourcing some or all of Amtrak's food and beverage services would not be a panacea. It would create its own set of problems. Hopefully, they would be fewer and less intense than the current ones. In any case, management should give it a go.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
PJS1The key to getting a good deal for Amtrak's food and beverage service is to open it to robust, competitive bidding, and make sure the contractor understands that if she does not perform, she will lose the contract.
If you built in some sort of profit motive in the contract for sales, service and quality, you might be able to win this game. Otherwise, the only way for the contractor to increase profit is by cutting cost....
I'm not sure contract adminstration is an Amtrak core competancy, either. Where, exactly are those Viewliner sleepers....?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmannd If you built in some sort of profit motive in the contract for sales, service and quality, you might be able to win this game. Otherwise, the only way for the contractor to increase profit is by cutting cost.... I'm not sure contract adminstration is an Amtrak core competancy, either. Where, exactly are those Viewliner sleepers....?
The hope is that Anderson will make sure Amtrak has the skills to successfully manage its out-sourced activities, i.e. IT, reservations, marketing programs, etc. He may need to go outside to find the required skills. I suspect that is one of the reasons he was hired.
Speaking of contracts, what do the existing labor contracts say about outsourcing food and beverage service?
CSSHEGEWISCH Speaking of contracts, what do the existing labor contracts say about outsourcing food and beverage service?
PJS1 CSSHEGEWISCH Speaking of contracts, what do the existing labor contracts say about outsourcing food and beverage service? Amtrak’s labor contracts are not on-line as far as I can determine. According to the October 9th edition of the New York Post, the union(s) representing Amtrak's food and beverage workers held a rally outside of Penn Station to protest the potential loss of jobs to outsourcing. Presumably they would not have needed to protest if their labor contract(s) prohibited outsourcing. The jobs appear to pay well; it is understandable why the workers would not want to lose them. According to a February l, 2018 letter released jointly by the Transportation Communications Union (IAM), International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, and The American Railway Supervisors Association, a proposed agreement for the on-board service employees represented by these unions contains a 17.5% (18.8% compounded) increase from 2015 through 2022. The on-board service annual wage, which covers all on-board service employees, will increase from $67,680 at the beginning of the period to $80,424 at the end of the period. The average net retroactive pay will be $5,301. The monthly premium for health insurance will increase from $209.19 to $228 per month or $2,736 per year. The increase reflects in part coverage improvements. An Amtrak spokesperson stated that every employee that has been displaced or would be displaced has been or will be offered another job with Amtrak.
You overlook the traditional manner in which railroads outsource. Go ahead and outsource - labor contracts be damned - let the Unions file claims that will take years to finally adjucicate. By the time it works its way through all the appeals they will end up paying 10 cents on the dollar for the value of the claims and they will continue to out source.
Employees that would be displaced would in fact be offered a job - in a location far removed from where they are currently working and have established their families and lives and most likely at reduced wage, even if the Union(s) can get New York Dock protection provisions to apply for 5 years. The carrier(s) will do their best to calculate past earnings in a manner that will prevent application of New York Dock provisions.
When BN leased the Oakway SD60's on a power-by-the-hour basis with repair and maintenance of the locomotives to be performed by EMD, the IAM blew the whistle on the lease contract as a violation of the existing shopcraft labor contract. It was settled within a year or two with BN's own shopcraft people performing the repair and maintenance of the SD60's.
Evading the labor contracts may have been the real goal of power-by-the-hour leases since it was never proposed again.
PJS1 Unlike a private business, when Amtrak’s management makes a bad decision(s), the consequences fall on the taxpayers.
Unlike a private business, when Amtrak’s management makes a bad decision(s), the consequences fall on the taxpayers.
Oh yes, that's why when factories close or go bankrupt, they always clean up the contaminated ground and water, so that taxpayers never have to pay to do it. We never have to bail out any failed pension plans, either.
Steve B500 PJS1 Unlike a private business, when Amtrak’s management makes a bad decision(s), the consequences fall on the taxpayers. Oh yes, that's why when factories close or go bankrupt, they always clean up the contaminated ground and water, so that taxpayers never have to pay to do it. We never have to bail out any failed pension plans, either.
If a company still is in business, it pays for the clean-ups. If it has been liquidated, the cost of any cleanup, as you point out, falls on the taxpayers.
Prior the 1960, a small number of companies, in many instances unwittingly, contaminated their properties. However, since then contamination has been the exception albeit the one that get the headlines. Meanwhile, the thousands of companies that comply with the law and the regulations don't get any headlines.
The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is funded by premiums paid into it by businesses that have approved pension plans. Because of funding shortfalls, PBGC has a deficit that could fall on the taxpayers, although the more likely outcome is they will be made up over time by an increase on the premiums paid by participating businesses.
PJS1Amtrak is a financial failure. In retrospect, it never should have been founded. To date it has cost the U.S. taxpayers $34.7 billion in nominal dollars or more than $40 billion in 2009 constant dollars.
Considering what has been given away in tax breaks for those that didn't need them - THIS YEAR. $40 Billion for 47 years of rail passenger transportation is down right cheap.
BaltACD PJS1 Amtrak is a financial failure. In retrospect, it never should have been founded. To date it has cost the U.S. taxpayers $34.7 billion in nominal dollars or more than $40 billion in 2009 constant dollars. Considering what has been given away in tax breaks for those that didn't need them - THIS YEAR. $40 Billion for 47 years of rail passenger transportation is down right cheap.
What the government spends or does not spent on other activities has nothing to do with what it should spend on a government passenger railroad. And nothing it does takes away the fact that Amtrak, which is a commercial activity, is a financial failure.
Where does passenger rail make sense, what should it look like, and how should it be funded are the important questions.
Amtrak is a commercial activity. It should be managed like one. Government should not run any commercial activity. It should regulate them, and it should make sure that their is a level platform for the players, but it should not pick the winners and losers. And it should not be running a passenger railroad.
BaltACD Employees that would be displaced would in fact be offered a job - in a location far removed from where they are currently working and have established their families and lives and most likely at reduced wage....
Having uprooted my family and moved seven times over a 40 year business career, including assignments in Canada and Australia, I am not sympathetic to moving is hard argument.
If you work for a large organization, change is inevitable. And if you want to move up, you need to be willing to move if the organization asks you to do so.
Amtrak said that any employee impacted by outsourcing food and beverage services will be given another job. You have no idea whether it will be the same job, a lesser job, or perhaps a better job. I have no sympathy with the person who insists that the company owes him or her a job, and then insists on no compromise.
PJS1 BaltACD PJS1 Amtrak is a financial failure. In retrospect, it never should have been founded. To date it has cost the U.S. taxpayers $34.7 billion in nominal dollars or more than $40 billion in 2009 constant dollars. Considering what has been given away in tax breaks for those that didn't need them - THIS YEAR. $40 Billion for 47 years of rail passenger transportation is down right cheap. What the government spends or does not spent on other activities has nothing to do with what it should spend on a government passenger railroad.... And it should not be running a passenger railroad.
What the government spends or does not spent on other activities has nothing to do with what it should spend on a government passenger railroad.... And it should not be running a passenger railroad.
And why not?
PJS1Where does passenger rail make sense, what should it look like, and how should it be funded are the important questions. Amtrak is a commercial activity. It should be managed like one. Government should not run any commercial activity.
And it is political questions if you want to have nationwide passenger rail. Sometimes you need government involvement in passenger railroading as private companies usually don't have the necessary staying power and will to wait long enough for profits. And it is questionable if passenger rail gets profitable as long as the railroad has to pay for all expenses.
Most European railways were once government entities and some still are like SNCF in France. This and the geographical situation made the success of the current passenger rail system possible.
And in Germany the government is still involved by paying for investments into the rail infrastructur. Here it felt just fair as the government pays for road and air infrastructure too. But we have mostly corridor trains between major population centers. Only from the highest north to the deepest south, about 700 miles, are LD trains.Regards, Volker
PJS1 BaltACD Employees that would be displaced would in fact be offered a job - in a location far removed from where they are currently working and have established their families and lives and most likely at reduced wage.... Having uprooted my family and moved seven times over a 40 year business career, including assignments in Canada and Australia, I am not sympathetic to moving is hard argument. If you work for a large organization, change is inevitable. And if you want to move up, you need to be willing to move if the organization asks you to do so. Amtrak said that any employee impacted by outsourcing food and beverage services will be given another job. You have no idea whether it will be the same job, a lesser job, or perhaps a better job. I have no sympathy with the person who insists that the company owes him or her a job, and then insists on no compromise.
Just send them all to Mexico, the cost of living is cheaper (if they manage to survive the drug violence). Treat them like second or third class beings, it is what is expected in red number bottom line organizations. Why not find them jobs at Sears.
ROBIN LUETHEAnd aviation along with the Interstate highway system continue not to pay their way, requiring general fund subsidies. Let alone trillions to defend middle east oil. Down with them all, if people want to go somewhere Let them Walk.
Can I drive or fly? FWIW, we don't import middle east oil, although some of our (former?) allies do.
I've lost my job primarily to the H1b program (immigration abuses) 3 times over my IT career. I should be really racist and bigoted towards Asian Indians at this point but I am not as I see it more as a failure of our politicians to serve Americans first before foriegn interests that pay them huge speaking fees and contribute via large PACS. I find it really ironic that the Political Party that evangilizes on diversity on our culture hasn't raised questions on why almost all of our IT workers via H1b come from India or Pakistan and very tiny portions from other countries. You would think at some point that would raise suspicisions via common sense thinking about the issue...........maybe?
Anyhoo, off my rant. I do have very little sympathy for someone in a relatively low skilled job like food prep or food delivery complains about losing their job. Wake-up people thats part of the industry you belong too.
Agree with others that state they should have no problem finding another employer or another job. Despite rampant political abuses to hire cheaper foriegn labor, I never gave up on IT and was still able to make a career out of it. Though I would have preferred it be with all one employer, I still have a pension and decent 401k so I won't have to worry about retirement. Just took planning on my part to always have an emergency fund in case I got layed off (to live off of) and always keep training and educating myself in emerging technology via the local IT groups and Community Colleges. Keep yourself current is the name of the game in this country.
CMStPnP Just took planning on my part to always have an emergency fund in case I got layed off (to live off of) and always keep training and educating myself in emerging technology via the local IT groups and Community Colleges. Keep yourself current is the name of the game in this country.
Right on! I worked for large corporations all of my working life. I understood that my employment was dependent on my performance and keeping my skills current. I contributed. And I reinvnted myself every five years. As a result, I had a rewarding career.
When a person works for any organization, i.e. business, government, education, etc., his personal goals are secondary. The goals of the organization come first. If he cannot align his goals with the organization's goals, he needs to do something else.
Yes, Balt, not all managers know what their subordinates know about the work. I had a supervisor who would see that I did something unusual--which I saw as necessary--and think I had done something extraordimary.
Johnny
Organizations fail for many reasons.
In most organizations, especially large ones, no one is irreplaceable, including the CEO and the executive team.
Well managed organizations understand the need to recruit, retain, and succor productive employees. They also have well thoughout succession plans so that if someone leaves or dies, there is a person ready to take his or her job.
The primary objective of a business is to enhance the wealth of the shareholders, although in Amtrak’s case it is to minimize the damage done to the taxpayers. It is not to employee people. And if that means getting rid of employees that don't perform or no longer fit the organization’s needs, so be it.
Years ago, a boss that I respected gave me this perspective. Think you are irreplacable? Put your hand in a bucket of water, with draw it, and count the time it takes for the ripples to subside.
Hopefully Anderson will be given the authority to manage Amtrak like a real business. If so it probably will mean dislocating some or many employees. It will be painful, but most of them will land on their feet. As noted above, if food and beverage services are outsourced, the dislocated employees will have a shot at another job.
Deggesty Yes, Balt, not all managers know what their subordinates know about the work. I had a supervisor who would see that I did something unusual--which I saw as necessary--and think I had done something extraordimary.
Every successful manager that I have known solicits input from those who report to him or her. And takes it to heart if it makes sense.
Utimately it is management's responsibility and accountability to decide on a path forward. Sometimes they have to make tough decisions that can cause pain. But it is what managers get paid to do.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.