Trains.com

Article from retired NH engineer

15797 views
387 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, November 7, 2018 8:11 AM

BaltACD

 

 

 
243129
The NY.NH.& H.R.R  Merchants Limited in the year 1949 left South Station Boston @ 5:00PM and arrived Grand Central Station  @ 9:00PM

Amtrak Acela Express #2175 in the year 2018 leaves South Station Boston @5:20PM and arrives @ Penn Station N.Y. @ 8:52PM

69 years, billions in taxpayer dollars for a 'savings' of 28 minutes.

 

In 1949 there were not government imposed maximum speeds.  ICC regulation of speed was decreed in 1947 to be effective in 1952.

http://streamlinermemories.info/?p=358

 

Do you know what the MAS was between Boston and GCT in 1949?

Do you think it was higher than 125/150 MPH?

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,547 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 11:12 PM

I think it is a real shame that Volker Landwehr was either banished permanently from these increasingly otherwise vacuous forum discussions or else he decided he had had enough of being sentenced to these arbitrary "moderation" limbos as several others have experienced.  Explanations are never given so that folks could understand what were their egregious infractions. Sentences to forum purgatory are indefinite.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 24,937 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 10:26 PM

 

243129
The NY.NH.& H.R.R  Merchants Limited in the year 1949 left South Station Boston @ 5:00PM and arrived Grand Central Station  @ 9:00PM

Amtrak Acela Express #2175 in the year 2018 leaves South Station Boston @5:20PM and arrives @ Penn Station N.Y. @ 8:52PM

69 years, billions in taxpayer dollars for a 'savings' of 28 minutes.

In 1949 there were not government imposed maximum speeds.  ICC regulation of speed was decreed in 1947 to be effective in 1952.

http://streamlinermemories.info/?p=358

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    September 2011
  • 6,401 posts
Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 9:30 PM

243129

 

 
MidlandMike

 

 
243129

The Acela Express is an egregious waste of taxpayer dollars. Billions of dollars wasted for a 20 to 30 minute savings in time? A convential train making the same stops that Acela would makes would cut into the savings even further.

If you want waste your personal money go right ahead. I don't want the government wasting my tax dollars on something that is not economically feasible.

 

 

 

Anonymous has totally undermined any argument you may have with the economics of the Acela.  And the fact that millions of people ride the Acela, undermines your arguments that no one would ride a train that only saves 20 or 30 minutes.   

 

 

 

Please present Anonymous' argument.

 

You can read his post for yourself, dated  November 05, 2018 5:12 AM

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 5:04 PM

Euclid

Anonymous was Volker Landwehr yesterday when he posted on the previous page.   

 

Thank you.

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,148 posts
Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 4:40 PM

Anonymous was Volker Landwehr yesterday when he posted on the previous page.   

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 4:10 PM

charlie hebdo

I finally discovered a major reason why the former engineman has such a dislike for the Acelas, even though the public likes them, spends more to ride them and generate a large chunk of Amtrak's revenue and is the only profitable line on the Amtrak financials.   He is simply repeating the BLE-T position.

https://www.ble-t.org/pr/news/pf_headline.asp?id=4155

 

You have discovered nothing. I have my own reasons for considering the Acela not feasible on the NEC. If you have read my posts/article you have read my reasons.

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 1:37 PM

The NY.NH.& H.R.R  Merchants Limited in the year 1949 left South Station Boston @ 5:00PM and arrived Grand Central Station  @ 9:00PM

Amtrak Acela Express #2175 in the year 2018 leaves South Station Boston @5:20PM and arrives @ Penn Station N.Y. @ 8:52PM

69 years, billions in taxpayer dollars for a 'savings' of 28 minutes.

 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,321 posts
Posted by rdamon on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 8:44 AM

zugmann

 

 
243129
Add travel to and from midtown to the airport, security check, baggage check/claim and the train wins.

 

That's if you're going to midtown.  And not part of the TSA pre-check.  Who checks bags anymore?  That's what UPS/FedEx is for.

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Louisiana
  • 2,288 posts
Posted by Paul of Covington on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 8:23 AM

BaltACD

 

 
243129
"Anonymous" ???Confused

 

Anonymous is the standard that 'Trains' uses for posters, that for one reason or another, are not listed among the active posters.  They were valid posters at the time their post was written, however, over the years they have lost their active status and are thus shown as 'Anonymous'.  What criteria 'Trains' uses to assign the 'Anonymous' tag to someone is not known to me.

 

   "Anonymous" in this case is apparently Volker Landwehr.   Does anyone know what happened?

_____________ 

  "A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 7:37 AM

MidlandMike

 

 
243129

The Acela Express is an egregious waste of taxpayer dollars. Billions of dollars wasted for a 20 to 30 minute savings in time? A convential train making the same stops that Acela would makes would cut into the savings even further.

If you want waste your personal money go right ahead. I don't want the government wasting my tax dollars on something that is not economically feasible.

 

 

 

Anonymous has totally undermined any argument you may have with the economics of the Acela.  And the fact that millions of people ride the Acela, undermines your arguments that no one would ride a train that only saves 20 or 30 minutes.   

 

Please present Anonymous' argument.

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 7:36 AM

BaltACD

 

 
243129
"Anonymous" ???Confused

 

Anonymous is the standard that 'Trains' uses for posters, that for one reason or another, are not listed among the active posters.  They were valid posters at the time their post was written, however, over the years they have lost their active status and are thus shown as 'Anonymous'.  What criteria 'Trains' uses to assign the 'Anonymous' tag to someone is not known to me.

 

Thank you.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 24,937 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 7:04 AM

243129
"Anonymous" ???Confused

Anonymous is the standard that 'Trains' uses for posters, that for one reason or another, are not listed among the active posters.  They were valid posters at the time their post was written, however, over the years they have lost their active status and are thus shown as 'Anonymous'.  What criteria 'Trains' uses to assign the 'Anonymous' tag to someone is not known to me.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 6:39 AM

MidlandMike

 

 
243129

The Acela Express is an egregious waste of taxpayer dollars. Billions of dollars wasted for a 20 to 30 minute savings in time? A convential train making the same stops that Acela would makes would cut into the savings even further.

If you want waste your personal money go right ahead. I don't want the government wasting my tax dollars on something that is not economically feasible.

 

 

 

Anonymous has totally undermined any argument you may have with the economics of the Acela.  And the fact that millions of people ride the Acela, undermines your arguments that no one would ride a train that only saves 20 or 30 minutes.   

 

"Anonymous" ???Confused

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,518 posts
Posted by zugmann on Monday, November 5, 2018 11:23 PM

243129
Add travel to and from midtown to the airport, security check, baggage check/claim and the train wins.

That's if you're going to midtown.  And not part of the TSA pre-check.  Who checks bags anymore?  That's what UPS/FedEx is for.

  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.

  • Member since
    September 2011
  • 6,401 posts
Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, November 5, 2018 10:01 PM

243129

The Acela Express is an egregious waste of taxpayer dollars. Billions of dollars wasted for a 20 to 30 minute savings in time? A convential train making the same stops that Acela would makes would cut into the savings even further.

If you want waste your personal money go right ahead. I don't want the government wasting my tax dollars on something that is not economically feasible.

 

Anonymous has totally undermined any argument you may have with the economics of the Acela.  And the fact that millions of people ride the Acela, undermines your arguments that no one would ride a train that only saves 20 or 30 minutes.   

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 24,937 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, November 5, 2018 8:07 PM

243129
 
BaltACD
 
243129
BaltACD
In the eyes of those who pay for 1st Class - yes they are; just as coach passengers were to those in Pullman's (Parlor Car or sleeping car) in the heyday of rail passenger transportation. 

Amazing 

All those years you spent operating a locomotive you missed out on how human natture was taking place back in the train.  Human nature is funny that way when you don't place yourself in a position to see it.

In fact you might cast the current mid-term elections from the view point of First Class and Coach. 

All those years spent behind a desk makes you privy to what was "taking place back in the train"?

Riding them from time to time does - with one's ears open.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,547 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, November 5, 2018 7:57 PM

I finally discovered a major reason why the former engineman has such a dislike for the Acelas, even though the public likes them, spends more to ride them and generate a large chunk of Amtrak's revenue and is the only profitable line on the Amtrak financials.   He is simply repeating the BLE-T position.

https://www.ble-t.org/pr/news/pf_headline.asp?id=4155

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Monday, November 5, 2018 6:36 PM

BaltACD

 

 
243129
 
BaltACD
In the eyes of those who pay for 1st Class - yes they are; just as coach passengers were to those in Pullman's (Parlor Car or sleeping car) in the heyday of rail passenger transportation. 

Amazing

 

All those years you spent operating a locomotive you missed out on how human natture was taking place back in the train.  Human nature is funny that way when you don't place yourself in a position to see it.

In fact you might cast the current mid-term elections from the view point of First Class and Coach.

 

All those years spent behind a desk makes you privy to what was "taking place back in the train"?

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 24,937 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, November 5, 2018 6:29 PM

243129
 
BaltACD
In the eyes of those who pay for 1st Class - yes they are; just as coach passengers were to those in Pullman's (Parlor Car or sleeping car) in the heyday of rail passenger transportation. 

Amazing

All those years you spent operating a locomotive you missed out on how human natture was taking place back in the train.  Human nature is funny that way when you don't place yourself in a position to see it.

In fact you might cast the current mid-term elections from the view point of First Class and Coach.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Monday, November 5, 2018 5:26 PM

rdamon
JetBlue offers a 14 day advanced fare from JFK to IAD (Dulles) for as low as $59 for a ~1:15 flight.

Add travel to and from midtown to the airport, security check, baggage check/claim and the train wins.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,321 posts
Posted by rdamon on Monday, November 5, 2018 5:14 PM
Let’s not forget the other competition ..
Quick search on Google Flights:
 
 
JetBlue offers a 14 day advanced fare from JFK to IAD (Dulles) for as low as $59 for a ~1:15 flight.
 
Same day it approaches $225 one way.
 
Most of my coworkers prefer the Acela as they can work on the train and have flexibility. I always thought that the Acela was directed to the expense report crowd as a better option than dealing with the TSA and being able to get to NYP without riding in a cab.
 
Would I pay the difference if I were travelling personally?  On a vacation, probably, on a somewhat regular basis, probably not.
  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Monday, November 5, 2018 4:14 PM

BaltACD
In the eyes of those who pay for 1st Class - yes they are; just as coach passengers were to those in Pullman's (Parlor Car or sleeping car) in the heyday of rail passenger transportation.

Amazing

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 5, 2018 4:13 PM

BaltACD

 

 
243129
 
BaltACD
In the eyes of those who pay for 1st Class - yes they are; just as coach passengers were to those in Pullman's (Parlor Car or sleeping car) in the heyday of rail passenger transportation. 

Are these your observations also?

This seems to fit here.

im·pe·ri·ous
/ˌimˈpirēəs/
adjective
adjective: imperious
assuming power or authority without justification; arrogant and domineering.
"his imperious demands"
 
"riff-raff"Hmm

 

I am the riff-raff - I fly coach when I fly.  You are the iperious one.  I am just an observer of reality and comment on what it is that I see.

 

Thumbs Up

 

Johnny

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 24,937 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, November 5, 2018 3:42 PM

243129
 
BaltACD
In the eyes of those who pay for 1st Class - yes they are; just as coach passengers were to those in Pullman's (Parlor Car or sleeping car) in the heyday of rail passenger transportation. 

Are these your observations also?

This seems to fit here.

im·pe·ri·ous
/ˌimˈpirēəs/
adjective
adjective: imperious
assuming power or authority without justification; arrogant and domineering.
"his imperious demands"
 
"riff-raff"Hmm

I am the riff-raff - I fly coach when I fly.  You are the iperious one.  I am just an observer of reality and comment on what it is that I see.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Monday, November 5, 2018 1:53 PM

BaltACD
In the eyes of those who pay for 1st Class - yes they are; just as coach passengers were to those in Pullman's (Parlor Car or sleeping car) in the heyday of rail passenger transportation.

Are these your observations also?

This seems to fit here.

im·pe·ri·ous
/ˌimˈpirēəs/
adjective
adjective: imperious
assuming power or authority without justification; arrogant and domineering.
"his imperious demands"
 
"riff-raff"Hmm
  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 1,836 posts
Posted by 243129 on Monday, November 5, 2018 1:29 PM

zugmann
Is subsidising passenger service a given? I know a whole certain side of the aisle that says it isn't.

How long has it been since they were not subsidized?

zugmann
If we want to get cars off the highway - we're doing a lousy job. A few trainloads is not ever going to make a noticable difference.

Can you imagine the NEC without train service? Pure chaos.

zugmann
And if we want to entice people out of their cars (vs. legislating them), then you do have to offer amenities. Most people like having options. And people like newer things. Kind of a psychology/marketing thing. Iphone 10 anyone?

I disagree. Good, clean, frequent, dependable, affordable service is what would 'sell' on the NEC. If you're looking for the journey take a tour train or one of the LD trains.

zugmann
You can only rehab those amfleets so many times (and are there even enough to replace the Acela service at this point in time? And are they even capable of meeting all the standards that are in place? Crashworthiness? ADA?) Same question in regards to locomotives - are there even enough?

With the monies saved by discontinuing the Acela debacle new conventional locomotives and coaches could be purchased.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 24,937 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, November 5, 2018 12:55 PM

243129
 
BaltACD
 
Euclid 
243129

Let me ask you all a question.

You want to travel from NYP to WAS on a week day and you are not on an expense account. The fare in the same time frame is as low as $49.00 for a Regional train and as low as $130.00 for the Acela Express. The Regional train takes 3 hours and 22 minutes to complete the journey, the Acela Express takes 2 hours and 53 minutes to complete the same journey a difference of 30 minutes in trip time. Presented to the traveling public in this manner which do you think they would choose? 

Eight out of ten would pick the $49 ride.  One would pay an extra $81 for sizzle, and one would be undecided.  

When you market to the eschelon of customers that would not be caught dead with the 'dirty, unwashed, bargin transportation shoppers' the Acela has a viable market for its higher priced marginally faster trips.  Acela keeps out the 'rif raf' and there is a serious market where this is important.

Airlines still have 1st Class where the price is many times in excess of the bargin fares that the carrier offers for other seats on the same plane. 

Coach travelers are riff-raff?

In the eyes of those who pay for 1st Class - yes they are; just as coach passengers were to those in Pullman's (Parlor Car or sleeping car) in the heyday of rail passenger transportation.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,518 posts
Posted by zugmann on Monday, November 5, 2018 12:39 PM

243129
My observation is that this can be accomplished with conventional equipment with marginal differences in running time and a more judicious use of taxpayer dollars.

Observations are one thing.  Do you have numbers?

As Volker pointed out, over 3 million people seemeed to like Acela last year.

I guess we all have that line in the sand.  I just find your choice of location intriguing.

  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,518 posts
Posted by zugmann on Monday, November 5, 2018 12:37 PM

Is subsidising passenger service a given?  I know a whole certain side of the aisle that says it isn't.

If we want to get cars off the highway - we're doing a lousy job. A few trainloads is not ever going to make a noticable difference. 

And if we want to entice people out of their cars (vs. legislating them), then you do have to offer amenities.   Most people like having options.  And people like newer things.  Kind of a psychology/marketing thing.  Iphone 10 anyone?

 

You can only rehab those amfleets so many times  (and are there even enough to replace the Acela service at this point in time? And are they even capable of meeting all the standards that are in place?  Crashworthiness?  ADA?)  Same question in regards to locomotives - are there even enough?

  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy