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News Wire: Cold-meal service coming to 'Capitol Limited,' 'Lake Shore Limited'

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Posted by railfanjohn on Sunday, May 20, 2018 6:53 PM

PJS1

Here is the question that I would like someone(s) to address.  Maybe it has been covered, but if so I missed it.

Do the meal changes announced for sleeping car passengers on the Lake Shore Limited and the Capitol Limited mean the dining cars will be removed from those trains beginning on June 1?  

 

 

As I understand it:  YES

See my post of 4-27 where I mentioned I am booked on the Capitol Limited in June;  DC to Chicago & return a few days later.

Here is the information taked from the AMTRAK Capitol Limited public timetable  effective June 1, 2018:

Dining:  Contemporary and fresh dining choices for Sleeping car customers onboard.  Meals can be ordered with the Sleping car attendant and delivered to Sleeping car passengers through enhanced room service.  Sleeping car customers choose from a variety of quailty, fresh and ready-to-serve meals.  A Kosher meal is available with advance notice.  Sleeping car passengers have the option to dine at available seating in the Lounge car or served in their bedrooms or roomettes.

Lounge Service:  Sandwiches, snacks and beverages.

Sightseer lounge:  Available seasonally.

 

There is NO DINING CAR on the train!

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, May 20, 2018 7:43 PM

"Enhanced room service?" Currently, hot meal room service is available on all trains with diners. 

Since I use a walker for getting around (while not on board), I am often asked if I will be wanting my meals served in my bedroom--and I am able to say that I plan to go to the diner.

Apparently, those at Amtrak who say that meal service will be enhanced do not know the meaning of the word "enhanced," think the traveling public does not know the meaning of the word,  or are knowingly lying.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, May 20, 2018 9:33 PM

I think "enhanced" has replaced the worn out phrase "in order to serve you better...".  Either way you know you're going to be let down.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, June 1, 2018 11:05 AM

MidlandMike

I think "enhanced" has replaced the worn out phrase "in order to serve you better...".  Either way you know you're going to be let down.

 

Mike, you have something there.

I received the following this morning, in coneection with a trip I plan to take in September:

Beginning June 1, Amtrak will offer contemporary meal choices for sleeping car customers, in place of traditional dining car service, onboard the Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited trains. Sleeping car customers will choose from a variety of quality, fresh and ready-to-serve meals. Unlimited soft drinks, a complimentary serving of beer, wine or a mixed-drink and an amenity kit will also be offered to sleeping car customers.

Sleeping car customers will have the option to dine at available seating in the sleeping car lounge or can continue to be served in their bedrooms or roomettes.  

Reservations for in room dining will be available in frequent intervals consistent with today’s standards and meals continue to be included in the sleeping car fare. A Kosher meal continues to be available with advance notice.

More information is available here

Thank you for choosing Amtrak.

I am glad that "quality" was not mentioned. When I see or hear "quality," I think of the quality grade of fence boards--which may have knot holes, loose knots, wane, or any variety of warp. It is definitely inferior to the grade "#2 or better" (which, as I recall, may have a little bit of wane--it's been about twenty years since I worked in a lumber yard), which is inferior to the top grade.

When buying fence boards, I always looked at each board--and would find one or two quality boards mixed in with the better lumber.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, June 1, 2018 9:45 PM

All's I can think, is that Amtrak management must be empathy-challanged to subject a captive clientele to a 16 hour train ride with not a single hot meal.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, June 1, 2018 9:50 PM

MidlandMike
All's I can think, is that Amtrak management must be empathy-challanged to subject a captive clientele to a 16 hour train ride with not a single hot meal.

Anderson will have the airline refrain - Give them another bag of pretzels.

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Posted by SFbrkmn on Sunday, June 3, 2018 12:15 PM

Normally I do not agree much which comes from the keyboard of Fred Frailey but this time he hit it correct on the head. Anderson is getting a bad rap on this. The CEO is only doing what is being required by law from the US Congress on Amtrak bottom line. Just like Fred stated, the new meal service being launched is what has been around for yrs on the Portland section of Empire Builder. No one cried wolf when that came about. Dining car service is a huge money looser and no longer can be business as usual from yrs past. The food there is horrible. Lets fid a way to fix it. If nothing is done, then many will be standing around at some future point in the future when there are no more trains at all and be wondering "what were we thinking". I am for support of Amtrak but only in the least-costly and effficient method. At least Anderson is trying to do this and he has stood up to the issue while other past CEO's have not.

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, June 3, 2018 2:40 PM

It isn't 1970 anymore.  Microwave-able food has come a long way since then.  Maybe it's time to attempt the automat car again?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, June 3, 2018 3:03 PM

zugmann

It isn't 1970 anymore.  Microwave-able food has come a long way since then.  Maybe it's time to attempt the automat car again?

 

Very true.  But the complainers are stuck in the 1950s.  They want quality restaurant dinners served on a white tablecloth with china, silverware, crystal and a fresh rose, all for $10.

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, June 3, 2018 5:32 PM

charlie hebdo
 
zugmann

It isn't 1970 anymore.  Microwave-able food has come a long way since then.  Maybe it's time to attempt the automat car again? 

Very true.  But the complainers are stuck in the 1950s.  They want quality restaurant dinners served on a white tablecloth with china, silverware, crystal and a fresh rose, all for $10.

Guess everyone should get a 22nd Century food injection!

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, June 3, 2018 5:35 PM

BaltACD
Guess everyone should get a 22nd Century food injection!

Works for me.  Not everyone is a foodie.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by railfanjohn on Sunday, June 3, 2018 9:11 PM

OK.   Do we have a report from trackside?   

Did the Capitol Limited and Lakeshore Limited depart their respective terminals Friday WITHOUT dining cars?      

How about a report from anyone who was on board either of these trains?  What is the new menu?  What is the dining service (I use that word loosely) like?    

Sounds to me like the Sleeping Car Attendant is now also the Chef / Cook, Dining Car Steward, and also Waiter.  This guy will be worked to death before the train can even get up to track speed!  No wonder the unions are unhappy with the new situation.

Anyone have an up-to-date report on how things are now operating, meal-wise, on these two trains? 

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, June 3, 2018 9:30 PM

John, from information sent to me in connection with my planned upcoming trip, the former diners will now be first-class lounges, and sleeper passengers will be able to eat their meals in them.

Just what the division of labor will be, I do not know, but I somehow have the impression that there will be one person taking care of the meals for all of the sleeper passengers.

If you ever traveled in sleepers before Amtrak got its current sleepers you would know that the current sleepers are not quite first class, even though the regular Amtrak bedrooms and Viewliner accessible bedrooms do have showers. I even think that the Slumbercoach accommodations were better than the Amtrak roomettes.

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Posted by PJS1 on Sunday, June 3, 2018 11:06 PM

Deggesty

John, from information sent to me in connection with my planned upcoming trip, the former diners will now be first-class lounges, and sleeper passengers will be able to eat their meals in them. 

If the dining cars were parked, how much fuel would be saved by pulling a train with one less car?

A Superliner lounge car has eight tables topside and up to four tables on the lower level.  It seems to me that those sleeping car passengers who wanted to break bread with their fellow passengers could do so in the lounge car.  I suspect some of them would be happy to chow down in their rooms.  Unless everyone rushed the lounge car at the same time, there should be room.  

Dragging the dining car around as a lounge car gives the appearance that Amtrak doesn't really know what it is doing.  

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, June 4, 2018 10:24 AM

PJS1
Dragging the dining car around as a lounge car gives the appearance that Amtrak doesn't really know what it is doing.  

And this is news?

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Posted by Railvt on Monday, June 4, 2018 11:03 AM

Here's a photo of the Antipasto dinner box on the LAKESHORE LIMITED. There's not even a proper plate provided. This is an "upgraded" example of an airline snack pack--not a proper meal.

www.facebook.com/hvfoodservice

This is gosh awful. One group of riders will love this. The rodent family residents of the coach yards will find their way on-board, as there will be a treasure rolling around under the seats in the sleeper rooms to enjoy! I hope they'll enjoy their re-locations from the east coast to the Midwest (and return?)!

And I'm not just being sarcastic. Encouraging most passengers to eat in their rooms as the new policy does (even though a full Viewliner diner is present as the "Sleeper Lounge") means food will need to be aggressively cleaned up in the ultra-confined space of the sleeper rooms. This was an issue years ago when Amtrak was still handing out free snack amenity packs in the sleepers. Like it or not the yard crews just weren't capable of deep cleaning after every run. We can count on this to be a problem again.

Even in the "Sleeper lounge" the one person crew will be very unlikely to be willing/able to properly clean up after each "meal". Truly this plan is not clean or sanitary.

It's also sad to note that coach passengers are also really getting the shaft on the LSL. The Viewliner diner is for sleeper only access. The "Coach Lounge" is actually half of a Business/Lounge Amfleet I cafe car. At best that means only 5 1/2 tables--but invariably the conductors take one full table and the handicap half table. The attendent takes another--meaning the 240+ riders in the four Amfleet II coaches "share" at most three lounge tables on this train.

So the Anderson management pours down its contempt on all riders.

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Posted by PJS1 on Monday, June 4, 2018 1:45 PM

No problem Railvt! 

Just include the full cost of food and beverages in the price.  That is what a real business would do.  Then see how many takers Amtrak gets.

A case can be made for subsidizing long distance passenger trains in areas not served by other commercial passenger carriers, although they are few and far between in the U.S.  But there is no social justification for subsidizing meals on an Amtrak train.

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Posted by NKP guy on Monday, June 4, 2018 2:02 PM

   This dreadful, passenger-be-damned attitude of the new regime at Amtrak is just breaking my heart.  No good can come from such a misguided policy, which is no doubt management's goal.  

   The vision of me sitting in a brand new but non-functioning diner, eating my dinner out of a box with plastic utensils and then cleaning up after myself, is not at all a pleasant one.  Nor will I be likely ever to speak to a coach passenger again; so much for meeting young people and foreign tourists.  And all of this Amtrak-inflicted misery is being sold to us "to serve you better."  As if.

   When I rode #49 in late April I made sure I went into the station at Albany-Rensselaer and photographed the menuboard at the deli there.  I recommend westbound passengers either bring their own provender aboard at NYP or buy soup and sandwiches at the Rensselaer deli.  We will still have to eat in the segregated dining car-that's-not-a-dining car, and off of paper and cardboard, but at least the food we eat will be hot and of a much wider and better prepared variety than what Amtrak is grudgingly offering.  

   As far as I'm concerned, Amtrak can take their cold meal and shove it.  

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, June 4, 2018 8:42 PM

The problem started with Congress and PRIIA.  Running trains to maintain at least a contingency passenger rail network is going to need subsidy.  If you are transporting people for several hours, you are going to need to feed them.  If it takes more subsidy to run a moving eatery, than that is the cost of providing the public service.  To think you can parse out food service is absurd.  History is repeating itself.  Before Amtrak, the railroads were compelled to run the passenger trains, but apparently food service was left up to the carriers.  Some railroads installed automats or did other cost-cutting things to discourage patronage.  Now Congress has replaced private rail management, and the new Amtrak head is like the former passenger dept., tasked with cutting costs, with the added benefit of discouraging business.  Watching travelogues, I see that even third world countries serve hot food on their trains.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, June 7, 2018 12:06 PM

Now Trains Newswire states that Amtrak has reversed itself and will offer 2 hot meal options on these trains.    However, the dining options remain the same, in your compartment or in the dining car reserved for sleeping car passengers.

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Posted by NKP guy on Thursday, June 7, 2018 3:06 PM

   Once again, good news from Amtrak regarding their ongoing valiant efforts to serve us better!  A microwave oven has been placed in the brand-new, expensive dining car, and it's expressly for our use alone as First Class passengers!  

   Look out, Canada!  We're overtaking on you with our new Amtrak Prestige Service on the Lake Shore Limited and the Capitol Limited!

   

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, June 8, 2018 3:54 PM

NKP guy
   Once again, good news from Amtrak regarding their ongoing valiant efforts to serve us better!  A microwave oven has been placed in the brand-new, expensive dining car, and it's expressly for our use alone as First Class passengers!  

   Look out, Canada!  We're overtaking on you with our new Amtrak Prestige Service on the Lake Shore Limited and the Capitol Limited!

Will CSX & NS be told to operate the trains with 'Canadian' style On Time performance?

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, June 8, 2018 5:47 PM

Why, the next thing you know, we'll have a refrigerator available for our carry-on delicacies, and a CD player for ambient music or celebrations... and be up to the luxury-content level of Australian ore Trains!

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, June 8, 2018 10:27 PM

Overmod
Why, the next thing you know, we'll have a refrigerator available for our carry-on delicacies, and a CD player for ambient music or celebrations... and be up to the luxury-content level of Australian ore Trains!

All sleeping accomidations should be equipped with a refrigerator, microwave oven and a hot plate - then Amtrak can eliminate the diner.  With a hot plate Amtrak's sleeping accomidations would then be a step up on most current day hotels.  Exhaust manifold cooking on the locomotive is not a viable option for sleeping car passengers.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, June 9, 2018 7:14 PM

BaltACD
All sleeping accomidations should be equipped with a refrigerator, microwave oven and a hot plate - then Amtrak can eliminate the diner.  With a hot plate Amtrak's sleeping accomidations would then be a step up on most current day hotels.  Exhaust manifold cooking on the locomotive is not a viable option for sleeping car passengers.

You notice that even though the Sleepers have been rebuilt once or twice the electronics and electronic devices on them still date from the late 1970's.     Why Amtrak has not updated to bluetooth, Wi-Fi, etc.    Anyones guess and it would not be a huge added expense on top of a sleeper rebuild.

The communal kitchen in a sleeper would not work as it needs to be maintained to health department standards and most passengers can see with the toilet maintenece that is probably going to be spotty at best.     Putting a kitchen within a sleeping car compartment would be a fire concern as even with a microwave and a audible timer in front of them.......have seen employees at work nearly start a fire with microwaveable popcorn.     Some passengers would be idiots around anything that would be a fire hazzard.

Refrigerators and ice makers in the sleeping car compartment might be workable but still they have to be emptied, cleaned and sterilized at the end of each journey.   Sterialization can be done via traditional blue fluid spray (forget what that stuff is called but it non-toxic if mixed correctly).    So maybe a really small refrigerator and ice maker / cold water dispenser?   

If it was me and I was running Amtrak and I had a very little money to add something to the sleeping car compartment.    Definitely would be a lockable mini-bar and once the passenger was given the key they would be responsible for the inventory in the minibar.    Think of the marginal revenue that would add and you can store the liquor at room temperature so only would need a lockable cabinet with potentially a small ice maker.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, June 9, 2018 9:39 PM

Every hotel I have stayed at for the past decade have had a refrigerator and micorwave in the room.  Are normal hotel guests more astute in the use of these devices than the average Amtrak sleeping car passenger?  I have no idea what actions housekeeping perform to keep these devices clean - I doubt the hotel housekeeping staff is any more qualified than Amtrak car cleaners.  The hot plate I threw out there with my tongue firmly in my cheek, however, Canadian locomotives I understand must be equiped with a hot plate for Canadian crews.

Equiping Amtrak cars for Wi-Fi is realtively easy.  Equiping the right of way that Amtrak does not own for Wi-Fi is the problem.

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Posted by Enzoamps on Saturday, June 9, 2018 11:01 PM

Wifi?  aside from not owning the tracks, imagine running Wifi support wiring all along the CHicago to Washington route just for one Capitol Limited each day.  Even if they considered Toledo to Connelsville is usually traversed in the middle of the night and left it out, that is still many miles for a super low usage.  And further, I'd look at that investment as at risk since they are probably just as in doubt as I am that the Capitol will still be running in the near future.

Same argument for all the other cross country trains.  Darn difficult to get cell phone through the mountains too.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, June 10, 2018 7:22 AM

Enzoamps

Wifi?  aside from not owning the tracks, imagine running Wifi support wiring all along the CHicago to Washington route just for one Capitol Limited each day.  Even if they considered Toledo to Connelsville is usually traversed in the middle of the night and left it out, that is still many miles for a super low usage.  And further, I'd look at that investment as at risk since they are probably just as in doubt as I am that the Capitol will still be running in the near future.

I think you would use WiFi/WLAN on the train to distribute the signal picked up by the train through 2G/3G and 4G/LTE from the extensive cellular networks. The coverage in the US is quite good:

 

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, June 10, 2018 9:57 AM

Enzoamps

Wifi?  aside from not owning the tracks, imagine running Wifi support wiring all along the CHicago to Washington route just for one Capitol Limited each day.  Even if they considered Toledo to Connelsville is usually traversed in the middle of the night and left it out, that is still many miles for a super low usage.  And further, I'd look at that investment as at risk since they are probably just as in doubt as I am that the Capitol will still be running in the near future.

Same argument for all the other cross country trains.  Darn difficult to get cell phone through the mountains too.

.............and Yet VIA RAIL provides Wi-Fi on most of it's long distance trains including a very stable Internet connection along the route of the VIA Rail Skeena that traverses through several mountain ranges and tunnels......and extremely remote areas.    Guess how they do it?

They put a dish dome on the top of some of the cars and recieve from a combo of Satellite or local cellular depending on which is available and offers better quality.   The dish recievers are linked together so in short tunnels the signal is still picked up by the part of the train not in the tunnel.   The server on the train picks which signal to use based on speed and stability.    It's rather clever and works pretty good.   Speed is faster than dial up but not like Fiber but good enough to connect to the Internet for most apps.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, June 10, 2018 10:11 AM

BaltACD
Equiping the right of way that Amtrak does not own for Wi-Fi is the problem.

The technology is such now that VIA Rail equips it's cars for full reception and not the right of way.    I don't know if they put a dish on each car but on the Skeena you could see more than one dish on the top of the train (they appear as a circular white dome).    VIA Rail had a laptop sitting in the last Park Series Car.     Not sure if that was open to the public or if that was the "server" for corrdinating the onboard system setup by the VIA Rail crew.

BTW, Direct TV also offers pure satellite internet these days.    Never tried it because in bad weather I know it will fail.

Amtrak can do it but as the current Amtrak CEO correctly assessed a lot of the past management thinking is stuck in the 1970's and 1960's with what they provide to the passenger in Amtrak services.......and that needs to change.

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