What was being predicted in the 1970s of a cashless society in Popular Sceince mag. is now becoming true. Now about those monorails and moving sidewalks promised us in Popular Science mag.
If this post were expanded into a book, with only very rudimentary editing required, I think it would sell and become popular. Good eye, and not bad sarcasm.
Not to encourage off-topic posting, of course. But it does peripherally bear on why 'cash acceptance' on transit might be less critical in some circumstances...
It seems to me that college kids who in certain former working class neighborhoods (Like PGH South Side that was LTV Steel) which was raise the cost of living thru the expendsure of easy money vis via there credit cards. No more doller drafts, No more Jack and a beer for 3.00.No more breakfast for 4.00 Rent also went up as landlords turned old homes into a hive of student housing with students paying with mom and dads money to be cramed in spaces that are not for a rat at 2,000 dollers a semester. With the wear and tear by students who start partying on Thursday and break plumbing buy stuffing hygenic products down anciant and rental agenies who have no pride what was a place that kids played stickball and dad mowed the lawn and sat on the porch having a cold IC Light is now turned into a student slum. Sure the front of Carson street has new buildings but that is only the fasade of whats going on in the blocks behind it. Yes Transit Ridership is up but only due to students with free passes
DeggestyTimes have changed. When my father worked in the ACL's locomotive shop in Tampa, he was paid in coin until gold coins were forbidden; I do not know for certain, but I expect he was then paid in cash, until his death. In the early fifties, when I worked in a general store, I was paid in cash--and when I worked in a drug store in Baton Rouge one summer I was paid in cash (67.5 cents per hour). The last few years that I worked, I never even saw a check; my pay was depsoited directly into a credit union account--and my income now is so deposited. And, I pay credit card bills by direct payment.
In the early fifties, when I worked in a general store, I was paid in cash--and when I worked in a drug store in Baton Rouge one summer I was paid in cash (67.5 cents per hour).
The last few years that I worked, I never even saw a check; my pay was depsoited directly into a credit union account--and my income now is so deposited. And, I pay credit card bills by direct payment.
When I was a part of the team the created Chessie System's Baltimore Terminal Services Center in the late 1970's one of the job functions we had to plan for was distribution of pay checks every other Friday. BTSC would be the only distribution center for pay check for employees headquartered in Baltimore.
Pay checks could be distributed AFTER bank closings on Thursday - nominally 3 PM on Thursday. To do this a clerical position had to handle the disbursement of the checks which each employee had to sign or initial for. Those who could not write (and there were some in the category) had to have their 'mark' witnessed by two other persons.
Our planning for this happening dealt with having the company perform direct deposit so personnel would not have to be devoted to this activity. At that time the company would not do it so we had to designate a position to perform the function. Later on, after the formation of CSX, direct deposit became the company's prefered and then mandated method of payment.
Contract personnel were paid every other Friday except in New York where state law mandated payment weekly. Non-contract personnel at one time were paid on the 2nd and 17th of each month, later that was changed to the 1st of the month ONLY.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Times have changed. When my father worked in the ACL's locomotive shop in Tampa, he was paid in coin until gold coins were forbidden; I do not know for certain, but I expect he was then paid in cash, until his death.
Johnny
Many of these locations cater to a Hispanic clientele, as banks that provide business checking accounts begin to require accounts, or service fees, from employees trying to cash paychecks. Illegal Hispanics do not have the documentation needed to open bank accounts, and there is an infrastructure of petty 'capitalism' that has grown up around charging enormous 'convenience fees' or other agios to cash what are perfectly good checks written by reputable people against provably adequate reserves. The fun practice of rolling over short-term loan balances at fixed percentage per rollover, borrowed from that classic American institution, loan-sharking, only adds to the exploitation of the underprivileged. If there are additional 'fees' or paperwork involved in this that are greater than what a couple of script kiddees could gin up in a development environment to run on a cheap PC, I don't know what they are ... other than legal machinery to enforce personal guarantees or fee and charge payments out the wazoo without recourse. If there is any particular risk of non-recovery in cashing these checks, I am not sure where it is supposed to be (as it is a trivial thing to go into even a rudimentary payment gateway and do an available-funds check).
Saw Check Cashing Places pop up all over Cleveland 15 years ago in Black inner-city neighboorhoods. At the same time the banks were closing inner-city branches. Plus if you are on a fixed income and you need emergency cash you went to your credit cards then to your checking and paid the overdraft fees and after that to the payday loan places. It also happens to be that Check Cashing joints also are in high drug and crime areas and never in the burbs also known in local lingo as the the "Heights" in C-land.
The "paycheck loan companies" are another drain on personal economy--yet many people are so cash-strapped and have poor credit ratings that there is no other place for them to go. These companies say that they have high bookkeeping expenses which can be paid for only by charging high interest rates.
NKP guyAll one has to do is pay the balance each month and then reap the benefits (like free Amtrak trips).
There is a little important bit more that I think C&O is missing: you have to charge a meaningful amount on the card every month ... and then pay the entire due balance regularly off by the due date.
The trick is to watch out for the 'average daily balance' then being high in case you miss paying in full ... and not just the 'minimum balance due' because that's all the cash you want to flow. Yes, card issuers just love people who pay that minimum balance; it's like a license to earn over 30% on what isn't even really an investment per year. Much like that bane of modern life, the check-cashing 'money store' that seems to crop up on every street corner. It was a bad day for America when the usury laws were overturned or circumvented. And I speak as a staunch proponent of free enterprise when honest earning is concerned.
CandOforprogress2When you do get the bill its decieving because it only shows the min. payment so you think you are A-OK.
A close examination of any credit card bill shows the balance due, in fact, it's the same size type as the minimum payment due.
All one has to do is pay the balance each month and then reap the benefits (like free Amtrak trips).
I understand about the waitress & her tips and the effects of cards on restaurants specifically and some businesses in general, but the genie isn't going to go back into the magic lamp. These are tax problems and they are fixable if the political will is there.
Imagine doing any sort of business online without credit cards. I don't miss carrying around large sums of cash to pay for vacations and out of town trips.
Debit cards are the work of the devil, especially compared to credit cards used by a financially responsible person.
By the way, those college kids (with or without their parents) are supporting local businesses which might not be there without them. Would you rather the neighborhood slowly died as everyone moves away? Every small town in Ohio wishes it had plenty of college kids because they bring life to the city...with their debit & credit cards.
Quoting CandO for progress2: "Matter of fact Credit Card companies hate you and give you bad credit just for paying in full on time"' I must have better Credit Card companies than he does; I pay in full each month--and my credit report says I am a good risk. I did close one account because the financial institution had trouble crediting my account when I asked it to do so, and charged interest and a late payment fee (both were returned after I complained) and, later, charged me for a payment to a "bill-paying service" (with no other explanation even after I asked, "what bill-paying service?") They did refund that charge after I complained.
On the whole, I have had good experinces with the institutions I now use.
Seems that Credit Cards and Debit Cards too a lot of young people are not real money. It has been shown that folks with the cards tend to spend more money then those with cash and that has been a selling point for the banks that push them to buineses. Buisneses are willing to pay the fees if that means more money at the end of the day. My poor waitress at my local diner has to wait for her tips to come in minus the credit card fee and often company cards have limits on gratutitys. The origonal idea of credit cards in the 1960s like Diners Club was for companies to keep tabs on there traveling salesmen. Now its easy money.Parents now in 2017 give there college kids credit cards and the kids never see the bill. (I see the effects of this on the South Side Entertainment District of Pittsburgh where Drink and Food prices are twice that of my local dive bar thanks to college kids driving up prices in what used to be a working class hood)..When you do get the bill its decieving because it only shows the min. payment so you think you are A-OK. What you dont know is that you are slipping into a bottomless muck pit that you can never get out of. Matter of fact Credit Card companies hate you and give you bad credit just for paying in full on time. Now you dont even have to fumble for the right credit card that you did not max out as your I-phone will do it for you. It seems that the banks here have in essence become drug dealers always willing to give folks there fix untill they end up at the city mission.
Gee, modern technology is just too darn hard for some to adapt to. Bring back stagecoaches!
Deggesty ben Deggesty And, if you want to ride, but do not have such a phone? You will be able to use a "tap card". A very similar system is going to be implemented by the MTA. And if you are visiting, and would like to take only one or two rides?
ben Deggesty And, if you want to ride, but do not have such a phone? You will be able to use a "tap card". A very similar system is going to be implemented by the MTA.
Deggesty And, if you want to ride, but do not have such a phone?
And, if you want to ride, but do not have such a phone?
You will be able to use a "tap card". A very similar system is going to be implemented by the MTA.
And if you are visiting, and would like to take only one or two rides?
In this instance you would simply load it with the desired amount of money much like the current system today.
Thanks, Overmod. Obviously, I seldom ride such forms of transit.
I do not remember any form of proof of purchase when my wife and I rode Skytrain in Vancouver 15 years ago, and the only other form of local transit since that trip to Stockton was riding up to Antioch from Chicago and back about four? years ago to enjoy some time with Carl and to ride a new section (for me) of track, and a ride, also from Chicago, to Lisle and back to vist with a nephew and his wife three years ago. On the last two trips, I had printed tickets that were taken up by a conductor.
Think of validation as another way to produce grounds to criminalize 'farebeating' and thereby excuse fascist enforcement against otherwise law-abiding or unwitting citizens.
The kiosks sell you tickets 'good for one fare' but, as with MetroCards, they don't always expire the day of issue. A potential farebeater -- and in California any rider is prejudged to be a potential farebeater -- might keep using the same ticket until 'caught' by one of those periodic pass-law-like police sweeps through the train, but evade his just prosecution by claiming 'here's my valid ticket'. Therefore comes the additional step that the rider has to date, and therefore cancel, his own ticket by sticking it into a verification device before he boards -- this is the thing the sweeps look for, as well as the ticket they're printed on, and the absence of which can get you hustled off the train and into a cruiser if you can't explain it adequately.
This policy doesn't make me 'not ride light rail' when I go to San Jose for tech conferences, but it makes me profoundly depressed that we can evolve such a system in the United States of America.
ben spsffan Well, the homeless and plain old poor around here often have cell phones. And, one can buy a VISA debit card at the supermarket for cash. I used to work for a bank, and sure enough, they held the right to charge business customers for frequent and large deposits of cash. Furthermore, as some have mentioned, there are costs involved in servicing ticket machines that collect cash. The cash must generally be picked up by an armed service of some kind, counted by the customer and the bank, usually by hand, etc. Brightline is somewhat of a specialty service, so I have no particular problem with them not taking cash. Mass transit outfits, like the Los Angeles MTA, SEPTA, Washington Metro, San Francisco Muni, CTA, etc. are in a different position and should have a cash option available, as, I think they all do. Heck, these days, the parking meters take American Express...brave new world. MBTA is introducing a system where you pay with your phone for everything from Ferry to Subway to Light Rail to Bus to Commuter Rail. https://mbta.com/projects/afc2
spsffan Well, the homeless and plain old poor around here often have cell phones. And, one can buy a VISA debit card at the supermarket for cash. I used to work for a bank, and sure enough, they held the right to charge business customers for frequent and large deposits of cash. Furthermore, as some have mentioned, there are costs involved in servicing ticket machines that collect cash. The cash must generally be picked up by an armed service of some kind, counted by the customer and the bank, usually by hand, etc. Brightline is somewhat of a specialty service, so I have no particular problem with them not taking cash. Mass transit outfits, like the Los Angeles MTA, SEPTA, Washington Metro, San Francisco Muni, CTA, etc. are in a different position and should have a cash option available, as, I think they all do. Heck, these days, the parking meters take American Express...brave new world.
MBTA is introducing a system where you pay with your phone for everything from Ferry to Subway to Light Rail to Bus to Commuter Rail.
https://mbta.com/projects/afc2
Eleven years ago, my wife and I rode the ACE deom San Jose to Stockton. There was a machine to sell tickets in the station, and there was an ACE employee by it; he sold me the tickets. I do not remember now whether I paid cash or used a credit card.
By the way, what is ticket validation? A notice on the machine indicated that tickets must be validated; I asked the man about it, but he indicated that I did not have do any more than obtain the tickets from him?
spsffanWell, the homeless and plain old poor around here often have cell phones. And, one can buy a VISA debit card at the supermarket for cash. I used to work for a bank, and sure enough, they held the right to charge business customers for frequent and large deposits of cash. Furthermore, as some have mentioned, there are costs involved in servicing ticket machines that collect cash. The cash must generally be picked up by an armed service of some kind, counted by the customer and the bank, usually by hand, etc. Brightline is somewhat of a specialty service, so I have no particular problem with them not taking cash. Mass transit outfits, like the Los Angeles MTA, SEPTA, Washington Metro, San Francisco Muni, CTA, etc. are in a different position and should have a cash option available, as, I think they all do. Heck, these days, the parking meters take American Express...brave new world.
CSSHEGEWISCH there is apparently no such cap on the number of units of other cryptocurrencies. How is this any different from legitimate currencies?
What would lead you to believe there aren't caps on 'legitimate currencies', even those unsecured by specie? Hint: M1 and M2. Other central banks regularly undertake operations to establish limits on circulating money (problems usually arise elsewhere, as in the years when "petrodollars" became an issue) if for no reason other than to address reasonable expectations leading to inflation.
The days of John Law and the idea of the Banque Générale aren't quite dead, of course, especially when well-meaning governments misconstrue Keynes, but it doesn't happen often as a free upside of unsecured printing of paper (or other low-marginal-cost instruments) ... or cryptocurrencies, for those who buy into the 'ideas' ... without consequences.
The price of a cryptocurrency behaves a lot like a commodity. While there is a supposed limit on the number of Bitcoins in existence, there is apparently no such cap on the number of units of other cryptocurrencies. How is this any different from legitimate currencies?
CSSHEGEWISCH ben A 100% cashless society could occur once crypto-currencies are widely accepted. I've noticed that the "value" of a Bitcoin has plummeted by 50% over the last few days. The value of a cryptocurrency unit is based on how much suckers are willing to pay for it.
ben A 100% cashless society could occur once crypto-currencies are widely accepted.
That is true for any currency, but as crypto currencies become more widely accepted/used the value will probably level out, much like any currency that we use today.
Enzoamps But at the cost of marginalizing certain people. Poor people have no credit cards, debit cards require a bank account many of them do not have. Many of them have no internet connection, no smart phone. I have enough credit cards in my wallet to get in trouble, I could buy a Mercedes with them, but I do not carry a smart phone. Smart phone means an account somewhere, costs money.
But at the cost of marginalizing certain people. Poor people have no credit cards, debit cards require a bank account many of them do not have. Many of them have no internet connection, no smart phone. I have enough credit cards in my wallet to get in trouble, I could buy a Mercedes with them, but I do not carry a smart phone. Smart phone means an account somewhere, costs money.
Actually nowadays even homeless people can be found with cell phones as it gives them something to do.
Doing everything electronically also makes it much easier to track, if the powers that be so desire.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
CandOforprogress2 I Guess that leaves me with the rest of the unwashed heathen on Tri-Rail Brightline07:40 PMToday We accept Visa, Mastercard, American Express and Discover. All charges are in U.S. dollars. Cash is not accepted at this time. Create an account and save your preferred payment method for faster bookings.
I Guess that leaves me with the rest of the unwashed heathen on Tri-Rail
Brightline07:40 PMToday
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