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Amtrak 501 Derail in Washington State

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, August 2, 2018 8:04 PM

charlie hebdo

 

 
243129

So what's your point Chuck?

 

 

 

It is obvious to anyone who can understand descriptive statistics. 

 

You C&P a bunch of statistics and the point you are trying to make is? Explain it to me I am only a retired railroad engineer with only a high school education

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, August 2, 2018 7:47 PM

243129

So what's your point Chuck?

 

It is obvious to anyone who can understand descriptive statistics. 

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, August 2, 2018 7:08 PM

So what's your point Chuck?

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, August 2, 2018 6:33 PM

A lot of words have been said about how bad Amtrak's hiring, training and supervision of engineers is and how "disasters are waiting to happen."  Yet if one looks at the number of collisions on all class ones, including ATK, caused by human factors, the numbers are very different (2014-17).

  

ACCIDENTS IN DESCENDING FREQUENCY BY RAILROAD

 

Selections: Railroad Group - CLASS 1 RAILROADS (Includes AMTRAK)
State - All States County - All Counties
All Regions
Human Factor / All Collisions / All Track Types 
January through December, 2017
 TotalTotal Year CountsYTD Counts Jan -
Dec
% Change Over Time
AccsPct of Total201420152016201620172014
to 2016
2015
to 2016
To Dec 
2016 
2017
CSX CSX Transportation [CSX ] 87 29.3 25 28 14 14 20 -44.0 -50.0 42.9
BNSF BNSF Rwy Co. [BNSF] 85 28.6 29 23 15 15 18 -48.3 -34.8 20.0
UP Union Pacific RR Co. [UP ] 57 19.2 27 15 9 9 6 -66.7 -40.0 -33.3
NS Norfolk Southern Railway Company [NS ] 35 11.8 7 6 9 9 13 28.6 50.0 44.4
CN Canadian National - North America [CN ] 19 6.4 5 6 3 3 5 -40.0 -50.0 66.7
ATK Amtrak [ATK ] 6 2.0 3 . 1 1 2 -66.7 . 100.0
KCS Kansas City Southern Rwy Co. [KCS ] 5 1.7 . 3 . . 2 . . .
CP Canadian Pacific Rwy Co. [CP ] 3 1.0 1 . . . 2 . . .

 

ACCIDENTS IN DESCENDING FREQUENCY BY RAILROAD

 

Selections: Railroad Group - CLASS 1 RAILROADS (Includes AMTRAK)
State - All States County - All Counties
All Regions
Human Factor / All Collisions / All Track Types 
January through December, 2014
 TotalTotal Year CountsYTD Counts Jan -
Dec
% Change Over Time
AccsPct of Total201120122013201320142011
to 2013
2012
to 2013
To Dec 
2013 
2014
BNSF BNSF Rwy Co. [BNSF] 127 30.8 28 32 38 38 29 35.7 18.8 -23.7
UP Union Pacific RR Co. [UP ] 120 29.1 35 30 28 28 27 -20.0 -6.7 -3.6
CSX CSX Transportation [CSX ] 71 17.2 14 18 14 14 25 . -22.2 78.6
NS Norfolk Southern Railway Company [NS ] 37 9.0 6 13 11 11 7 83.3 -15.4 -36.4
KCS Kansas City Southern Rwy Co. [KCS ] 25 6.1 12 9 4 4 . -66.7 -55.6 .
CN Canadian National - North America [CN ] 15 3.6 4 1 5 5 5 25.0 400.0 .
CP Canadian Pacific Rwy Co. [CP ] 11 2.7 3 5 2 2 1 -33.3 -60.0 -50.0
ATK Amtrak [ATK ] 6 1.5 2 . 1 1 3 -50.0 . 200.0

The railroad industry’s overall safety record is very positive, and most safety trends are moving in the right direction.  While not even a single death or injury is acceptable, progress is continually being made in the effort to improve railroad safety.  This improvement is demonstrated by an analysis of the Federal Railroad Administration’s (FRA) database of railroad reports of accidents and incidents that have occurred over the nearly three decades from 1978 through 2006.  See 49 CFR part 225.   (The worst year for rail safety in recent decades was 1978, and 2006 is the last complete year for which preliminary data are available.)  Between 1978 and 2006, the total number of rail-related accidents and incidents has fallen from 90,653 to 12,833, an all-time low representing a decline of 86 percent.  Between 1978 and 2006, total rail-related fatalities have declined from 1,646 to 915, a reduction of 44 percent.  From 1978 to 2006, total employee cases (fatal and nonfatal) have dropped from 65,193 to 5,035, the record low; this represents a decline of 92 percent.  In the same period, total employee deaths have fallen from 122 in 1978 to 16 in 2006, a decrease of 87 percent.

            Contributing to this generally improving safety record has been a 74-percent decline in train accidents since 1978 (a total of 2,834 train accidents in 2006, compared to 10,991 in 1978), even though rail traffic has increased.  (Total train-miles were up by 8.5 percent from 1978 to 2006.)  In addition, the year 2006 saw only 28 train accidents out of the 2,834 reported in which a hazardous material was released, with a total of only 69 hazardous material cars releasing some amount of product, despite about 1.7 million movements of hazardous materials by rail.

            In other words, over the last almost three decades, the number and rate of train accidents, total deaths arising from rail operations, employee fatalities and injuries, and hazardous materials releases all have fallen dramatically.  In most categories, these improvements have been most rapid in the 1980s, and tapered off in the late 1990s.  Causes of the improvements have included a much more profitable economic climate for freight railroads following deregulation in 1980 under the Staggers Act (which led to substantially greater investment in plant and equipment), enhanced safety awareness and safety program implementation on the part of railroads and their employees, and FRA’s safety monitoring and standard setting (most of FRA’s safety rules were issued during this period).  In addition, rail remains an extremely safe mode of transportation for passengers.  Since 1978, more than 11.2 billion passengers have traveled by rail, based on reports filed with FRA each month.  The number of rail passengers has steadily increased over the years, and since 2000 has averaged more than 500 million per year.  Although 12 passengers died in train collisions and derailments in 2005, none did in 2006.  On a passenger-mile basis, with an average about 15.5 billion passenger-miles per year since the year 2000, rail travel is about as safe as scheduled airlines and intercity bus transportation and is far safer than private motor vehicle travel.

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, August 2, 2018 1:15 PM

charlie hebdo

 

 
243129

 

 
charlie hebdo

 

 
243129
Arrogance? Yes. The fellow who named himself after a heinous crime arrived in this discussion with an arrogant condescending attitude so he begets that sort of treatment in return.

 

Your level of ignorance is surpassed only by your arrogance in thinking you are right about any and all.  Charlie Hebdo, as anyone with any reading skills would have known or could Google and discover, is the name of a French satirical weekly magazine whose employees were the victims of a vile terrorist attack in 2015.

 

 

 

Thank you for confirming my observation of your arrogance. The rallying cry/slogan for that terrible incident at Charlie Hebdo is Je Suis Charlie is it not? You have chosen to name yourself after the crime which is commonly referred to as Charlie Hebdo.

You have also avoided answering when challenged on your statements. Your calling me ignorant is laughable.

 

 

 

Hoisted on your own petard.  Try Googling, if you know how.

I looked at the two links, plus this gem:  http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey/archive/2015/06/05/the-agony-of-changing-amtrak.aspx 

You've been spouting the same stuff since at least 2013, almost word for word, and the reaction you received was similar to what you've gotten on here.  Five years of repetitious 'rants' (as others called your posts) is pretty montonous.  Never any concrete specifics, mostly just broad complaints. 

 

There are concrete specifics but I would not expect you to recognize them.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, August 2, 2018 11:34 AM

243129

 

 
charlie hebdo

 

 
243129
Arrogance? Yes. The fellow who named himself after a heinous crime arrived in this discussion with an arrogant condescending attitude so he begets that sort of treatment in return.

 

Your level of ignorance is surpassed only by your arrogance in thinking you are right about any and all.  Charlie Hebdo, as anyone with any reading skills would have known or could Google and discover, is the name of a French satirical weekly magazine whose employees were the victims of a vile terrorist attack in 2015.

 

 

 

Thank you for confirming my observation of your arrogance. The rallying cry/slogan for that terrible incident at Charlie Hebdo is Je Suis Charlie is it not? You have chosen to name yourself after the crime which is commonly referred to as Charlie Hebdo.

You have also avoided answering when challenged on your statements. Your calling me ignorant is laughable.

 

Hoisted on your own petard.  Try Googling, if you know how.

I looked at the two links, plus this gem:  http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey/archive/2015/06/05/the-agony-of-changing-amtrak.aspx 

You've been spouting the same stuff since at least 2013, almost word for word, and the reaction you received was similar to what you've gotten on here.  Five years of repetitious 'rants' (as others called your posts) is pretty montonous.  Never any concrete specifics, mostly just broad complaints. 

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, August 2, 2018 10:46 AM

Euclid

 

 
243129
Amtrak calls for employee input yet when it is offered it is ignored even when accompanied by bowing, scraping, kowtowing and sundry forms of servile countenance. Those tactics, which make me nauseous, were ineffective so now it is 'tell it like it is time'. A constant barrage of criticism and the publicizing of their inept and dangerous hiring and training procedures will perhaps result in change 'somehow'.

 

Why don't you write an article for Railway Age or Progressive Railroading?  If you can't move Amtrak, maybe you can move the public, and then they can move Amtrak. 

 

 

 

I have been trying.

https://www.railwayage.com/news/guest-blog-amtrak-another-accident-waiting-to-happen/?RAchannel=home

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey/archive/2015/08/11/the-making-of-engineers-and-conductors.aspx

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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, August 2, 2018 9:53 AM

243129
Amtrak calls for employee input yet when it is offered it is ignored even when accompanied by bowing, scraping, kowtowing and sundry forms of servile countenance. Those tactics, which make me nauseous, were ineffective so now it is 'tell it like it is time'. A constant barrage of criticism and the publicizing of their inept and dangerous hiring and training procedures will perhaps result in change 'somehow'.

Why don't you write an article for Railway Age or Progressive Railroading?  If you can't move Amtrak, maybe you can move the public, and then they can move Amtrak. 

 

 

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, August 2, 2018 9:27 AM

charlie hebdo

 

 
243129
Arrogance? Yes. The fellow who named himself after a heinous crime arrived in this discussion with an arrogant condescending attitude so he begets that sort of treatment in return.

 

Your level of ignorance is surpassed only by your arrogance in thinking you are right about any and all.  Charlie Hebdo, as anyone with any reading skills would have known or could Google and discover, is the name of a French satirical weekly magazine whose employees were the victims of a vile terrorist attack in 2015.

 

Thank you for confirming my observation of your arrogance. The rallying cry/slogan for that terrible incident at Charlie Hebdo is Je Suis Charlie is it not? You have chosen to name yourself after the crime which is commonly referred to as Charlie Hebdo.

You have also avoided answering when challenged on your statements. Your calling me ignorant is laughable.

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 2, 2018 9:17 AM

243129
Arrogance? Yes. The fellow who named himself after a heinous crime arrived in this discussion with an arrogant condescending attitude so he begets that sort of treatment in return.

Sorry, but you had this arrogance from the beginning. When you got objections your first question was for their "experiences in the trenches". As if locomotive engineers are the only people in world knowledge and discrimination.

243129
Amtrak calls for employee input yet when it is offered it is ignored even when accompanied by bowing, scraping, kowtowing and sundry forms of servile countenance.

I have only letters I would have thrown into the wastepaper basket.

243129
Those tactics, which make me nauseous, were ineffective so now it is 'tell it like it is time'. A constant barrage of criticism and the publicizing of their inept and dangerous hiring and training procedures will perhaps result in change 'somehow'.

You should have learned by now that it was not the right tactics or at least not the appropriate writing. Truth packaged in more friendly letters without insults etc. might have worked better.

The next step will be the NTSB's recommendations. If a safety management system is aimed at, as Amtrak proposed, I have severe doubts. Implementing it is only the first step. You have to live it. Amtak needs a positive handling of errors and mistakes to make it work, a no blame culture.

From all what I've read hear about the relationship between management and operating personell I don't see this no blame culture as likely.
Regards, Volker

 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, August 2, 2018 9:00 AM

243129
Arrogance? Yes. The fellow who named himself after a heinous crime arrived in this discussion with an arrogant condescending attitude so he begets that sort of treatment in return.

Your level of ignorance is surpassed only by your arrogance in thinking you are right about any and all.  Charlie Hebdo, as anyone with any reading skills would have known or could Google and discover, is the name of a French satirical weekly magazine whose employees were the victims of a vile terrorist attack in 2015.

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, August 2, 2018 8:47 AM

VOLKER LANDWEHR

 

 
243129
You have no frontline experience so you don't matter.

 

What an arrogance!

Each of your letters you posted here proofs that your frontline experience is completely worthless when trying to sell an idea to top management or a customer. To do this different skill are needed and there are people here have this kind of frontline experience.

But it is a useless discussion as you don't comprehend.
Regards, Volker

 

Arrogance? Yes. The fellow who named himself after a heinous crime arrived in this discussion with an arrogant condescending attitude so he begets that sort of treatment in return.

Amtrak calls for employee input yet when it is offered it is ignored even when accompanied by bowing, scraping, kowtowing and sundry forms of servile countenance. Those tactics, which make me nauseous, were ineffective so now it is 'tell it like it is time'. A constant barrage of criticism and the publicizing of their inept and dangerous hiring and training procedures will perhaps result in change 'somehow'.

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, August 2, 2018 8:30 AM

charlie hebdo

 

 
243129

 

 
charlie hebdo

 

 

 

Although I have no "frontline" experience, several of those who have made well-intentioned comments do. He is always right and everyone else is wrong and against him.

 

 

 

??? Who can't read? Looks like it might be you.Smile, Wink & Grin

Disgruntled? No. Disappointed? Yes.

 "He is always right and everyone else is wrong and against him."

Can you qualify that statement Chuck?

 

 

 

You have demonstrated what I've stated over and over with folks like zugmann, Balt, Volker, etc.  I'm not going to waste my time with a crank.  The myriad of folks to whom you sent your ridiculous non-proposal sure didn't.  They did as Volker stated but you are living in a Trumpian bubble where you are only truth.  But you cannot see that.

 

"I'm not going to waste my time with a crank."= I don't have an answer.

"The myriad of folks to whom you sent your ridiculous non-proposal sure didn't." Show me where my proposal is "ridiculous".

The tone of your post is that of a whiny prepubescent child.

"Trumpian bubble"? Hardly, all of my veteran co-workers are of like mind. I am just the most vociferous.

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 2, 2018 8:06 AM

243129
You have no frontline experience so you don't matter.

What an arrogance!

Each of your letters you posted here proofs that your frontline experience is completely worthless when trying to sell an idea to top management or a customer. To do this different skill are needed and there are people here have this kind of frontline experience.

But it is a useless discussion as you don't comprehend.
Regards, Volker

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:27 PM

243129

 

 
charlie hebdo

 

 

 

Although I have no "frontline" experience, several of those who have made well-intentioned comments do. He is always right and everyone else is wrong and against him.

 

 

 

??? Who can't read? Looks like it might be you.Smile, Wink & Grin

Disgruntled? No. Disappointed? Yes.

 "He is always right and everyone else is wrong and against him."

Can you qualify that statement Chuck?

 

You have demonstrated what I've stated over and over with folks like zugmann, Balt, Volker, etc.  I'm not going to waste my time with a crank.  The myriad of folks to whom you sent your ridiculous non-proposal sure didn't.  They did as Volker stated but you are living in a Trumpian bubble where you are only truth.  But you cannot see that.

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:05 PM

charlie hebdo

 

 

 

Although I have no "frontline" experience, several of those who have made well-intentioned comments do. He is always right and everyone else is wrong and against him.

 

??? Who can't read? Looks like it might be you.Smile, Wink & Grin

Disgruntled? No. Disappointed? Yes.

 "He is always right and everyone else is wrong and against him."

Can you qualify that statement Chuck?

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:01 PM

n012944

 

 
243129

 You have no frontline experience so you don't matter.

 

 

 

 

What a sad statement.

 

He can't even read.  I said several posters do/did have "frontline" (engineer?) rail experience and he rejected their comments as well.  He's a disgruntled former employee whose caustic letters have been rejected by everyone he's sent them to. QED.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 7:04 PM

n012944
 
243129

 You have no frontline experience so you don't matter. 

What a sad statement.

In today's manner of interpersonal discourse it is right on today's level of venom.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by n012944 on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 7:01 PM

243129

 You have no frontline experience so you don't matter.

 

 

What a sad statement.

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 6:58 PM

Read it anyway you like Chuck. You have no frontline experience so you don't matter.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 6:54 PM

Euclid
Maybe you should develop your ideas into a more specific proposal and present it to them as a defined option.  It seems to me that what you are facing is a marketing challenge.  Could you tell them about some of the specific solutions that might be offered by veteran operations personnel?  I think that giving them such specifics would have the potential to make your strongest argument.

That suggestion was made on here long ago by several members and rejected.  My hunch is he is short on specifics and long on venom.

Although I have no "frontline" experience, several of those who have made well-intentioned comments do. He is always right and everyone else is wrong and against him.

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 6:17 PM

I presented it to them. They feel their 'system' is better.

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Posted by Euclid on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 6:07 PM

243129
 
Euclid

 

 

 
243129

I have told them (Amtrak) that I have a template for hiring and training of T&E employees. They expressed no interest.

 

 

 

Is your template something that you consider to be proprietary information that you are offering to sell to them?  If so, have you presented it to them in those terms?

 

 

 

 

 

Yes it is propietary information but it is not for sale. It is 'free' if they choose to entertain it. They have not.

 

What do you mean by, "if they choose to entertain it"?

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 5:15 PM

Euclid

 

 

 
243129

I have told them (Amtrak) that I have a template for hiring and training of T&E employees. They expressed no interest.

 

 

 

Is your template something that you consider to be proprietary information that you are offering to sell to them?  If so, have you presented it to them in those terms?

 

 

 

Yes it is propietary information but it is not for sale. It is 'free' if they choose to entertain it. They have not.

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 12:21 PM

VOLKER LANDWEHR

When you are addressed in the style of the posted letters would you buy something especially not knowing what you get?

As Amtrak did I wouldn't react on the letters. Perhaps discussing them internally.

As long he is not willing to get professional help to learn how to present his proposal without offending, hurting, insulting someone he will not have success.

I think it is too late now, too much china smashed.

On the other hand I expect NTSB to come up with recommendation giving Amtrak the feeling following these is enough, making his proposals moot.
Regards, Volker

 

I presented my template they did not want to hear it. All of my suggestions and warnings have been documented and will be presented after future disasters. Perhaps someone or some agency will notice that Amtrak has not heeded the warnings from its veteran employees.

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 12:16 PM

zugmann

 

 
243129
You remind one of a Trump supporter. Deflect, distort and avoid answering questions. I am reactive not proactive as is in evidence early on in our 'relationship'.

 

Uh-huh.   If that is how you choose to remember it, then so be it. 

 

 

That is not how I choose to remember it that is how it is.

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 12:01 PM

When you are addressed in the style of the posted letters would you buy something especially not knowing what you get?

As Amtrak did I wouldn't react on the letters. Perhaps discussing them internally.

As long he is not willing to get professional help to learn how to present his proposal without offending, hurting, insulting someone he will not have success.

I think it is too late now, too much china smashed.

On the other hand I expect NTSB to come up with recommendation giving Amtrak the feeling following these is enough, making his proposals moot.
Regards, Volker

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Posted by Euclid on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 11:26 AM

 

243129

I have told them (Amtrak) that I have a template for hiring and training of T&E employees. They expressed no interest.

 

Is your template something that you consider to be proprietary information that you are offering to sell to them?  If so, have you presented it to them in those terms?

 

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 11:01 AM

243129
You remind one of a Trump supporter. Deflect, distort and avoid answering questions. I am reactive not proactive as is in evidence early on in our 'relationship'.

Uh-huh.   If that is how you choose to remember it, then so be it. 

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, August 1, 2018 10:46 AM

zugmann

 

And it's your playbook.  I was just borrowing a few pages.

 

You remind one of a Trump supporter. Deflect, distort and avoid answering questions.

I am reactive not proactive as is in evidence early on in our 'relationship'.

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