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Northeast Corridor Service Pre-Amtrak

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 24, 2017 4:18 PM

Shock Control
Thanks all. So was PRR the only one that went all the way from Boston to DC?

"PRR" never went all the way from Boston to DC; even the dedicated trains like the Senator were handed over to NH at some point, just as the trains out of GCT went onto the New Haven at Woodlawn to travel by way of New Rochelle, and NH didn't become 'part' of a single Northeast Corridor entity until it was folded into PC at the eleventh hour.  Only under PC did the GG1s start being run through under the electrification.  I believe there was one Metroliner trip that ran straight through to New Haven under the electrification (arranged in Amtrak's first year, I think November 1971), but I think all the other sets were reserved for trips in the 'principal' corridor between New York and Washington which had been rebuilt to handle the appropriate high speeds and relatively low track impacts necessary for the Metroliners to operate properly.

There was a "Metroliner" service that ran through to Boston in the early '80s, but this was with Amfleet and more conventional power, including of course an engine change at New Haven.

All the other operations from either north or south terminated in the New York region, the PRR/PC being the only railroad with an effective passenger connection across the Hudson anywhere south of Albany.  While NYC had plenty of Chicago to Boston trains, they were split from the New York part at Albany and to my knowledge no ex-Great Steel Fleet trains from New York had a direct section going to Boston; they only received cars from there to go west.  NYC certainly had no run-through from the east side of the Hudson, and the Empire Connection (which would require a reversing move in Penn Station to continue south anyway; it runs right over the top of the North River bores at virtually a right angle as it enters the station trackage) was not completed until the late '80s.

The only possible alternative would be to use the Poughkeepsie bridge, connecting ultimately to the CNJ/Reading/B&O probably where the Belvidere Delaware crossed the West Trenton line, but after the fire in 1970 (which happened before Amtrak) it would be inconceivable to send passengers across that structure even if there were a point in directing them the Great Way Round through northern New Jersey that the Federal used before the Hell Gate Bridge route was done... a route that pointedly came nowhere near New York City.

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Posted by Shock Control on Friday, November 24, 2017 2:43 PM

Thanks all. So was PRR the only one that went all the way from Boston to DC?

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, November 24, 2017 8:08 AM

Overmod, thanks for correcting my memory. Perhaps after my trip from Back Bay to New York in 1969 I did not pay much attention to the Turbotrain operation. I did see one set in Tuscaloosa when it was touring the country.

I just now looked in my copy of the last real Guide (April 1971)--and, Lo and Behold, there were connections, except Saturday and Sunday, between the Turboliner and a Metroliner. By then the Turboliner ran from and to South Station. The Turbotliner ran week days only.

Johnny

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 23, 2017 11:39 PM

Johnny, I thought we were discussing Amtrak operations.  Under NH and then PC, the TurboTrain ran into Grand Central.  But by the time I was riding it the train ran over Hell Gate and into Penn Station.  Someone will be able to find out the shoe modifications required.  I never connected through to a Metroliner but I read that some sort of coordination was intended.

The RTL TurboLINERS of course ran up the Hudson out of Grand Central for about 15 years ... but then they too went into Penn, over the Empire Connection.

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, November 23, 2017 9:51 PM

Overmod

Don't leave out the UA Turbotrain, which up to the oil crisis in '73 was being positioned as the counterpart to the Metroliners north of New York.  It's interesting to consider what might have happened if improvement of track comparable to PRR's between NYP and Washington had been done north of New Haven, as was expected (to 150mph standards) starting in the mid-Seventies.  I do not know if there were across-the-platform timed transfers between the two high-speed services, but it was certainly possible, and further saved the time of a power or train change at New Haven that would still be required even if Metroliners ran through.

 

So far as I remember, the Turbotrain always operated into/out of Grand Central, so there was no direct connection with a Metroliner.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 23, 2017 9:17 PM

Don't leave out the UA Turbotrain, which up to the oil crisis in '73 was being positioned as the Amtrak counterpart to the Metroliners north of New York.  It's interesting to consider what might have happened if improvement of track comparable to PRR's between NYP and Washington had been done north of New Haven, as was expected (to 150mph standards) starting in the mid-Seventies.  I do not know if there were across-the-platform timed transfers between the two high-speed services, but it was certainly possible, and further saved the time of a power or train change at New Haven that would still be required even if Metroliners ran through.

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, November 23, 2017 8:37 PM

The other cool thing about the corridor was the through trains from the south.  The SCL trains powered by GG1s and the through sleepers on the Crescent.  

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, November 23, 2017 8:30 PM

I remember riding between NYP and WAS in the early 60s when I was a little kid - about 5 years old.  Very nice. Clean coach seats.  Very smooth (especially compared to Ping Pong coaches on the Long Island).  They even had a snack cart come by a few times.  I remember them adding and dropping  a few P70s with those green mohair seats in Phila.  

In the late 60s and early 70s I rode a bit between Phila and NYP as a young teen.  Metroliners were rough and fast - and very cool!  Conventional trains were tired and dirty by then and AC and heating were spotty.

In the early years of Amtrak, I traveled a good bit on the NEC and from NYG to Albany-Rensselaer.  New upholstery and a bit cleaner than PC, but rough ride and many hot cars in the summer.  It was almost always worth the extra buck or two to upgrade to Metroliner on teh south end of the corridor.  

Time keeping was good south of NYP and lousy north of there to Boston.  

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, November 23, 2017 6:52 PM

The Reading had Phily-New York service.  The aforementioned B&O DC-NY service also ran over that route.

The last competition that the New Haven had on NY-Boston were the boat trains that ended by WWII.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, November 23, 2017 3:10 PM

If I remember corrrectly the Metroliner equipment was first delivered in PRR emblems and lettering, then Penn Central,  the Amtrak.     PRR was really the one pushing for the Corridor to get DOT funds to upgrade it's infrastructure.    That's where it started from my recollection.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, November 23, 2017 11:13 AM

Shock Control

Supposedly, Amtrak's bread and butter is the line between Washington, DC. and Boston, MA.  

In the 1990s, I lived in the northeast, in a few different cities, and had friends in every city between Boston and DC.  I used to take Amtrak quite a bit when I would visit them.  During rush hour trips, this train was packed to the gills with professionals. 

What was it like pre-Amtrak?  I know that the Pennsylvania Railroad had a passenger train called The Senator that linked these two cities.  What about other railroads?  I'm no expert, but it seems that much of the northeastern passenger service linked northeast cities to points further west.  

I'm just curious how many options were available to a traveler going between DC and Boston.  I'm also curious if Amtrak's current route includes any track that the PRR would have used for The Senator.  

Thanks in advance.  

 

Well, the PRR and NH had three day trains, complete with coach, dining, and parlor car service, and one overnight train, complete with coaches. sleeping accommodations, and breakfast service that ran over the same route that Amtrak now uses between Washington and Boston. There was no service like the business class that Amtrak offers.

As to Northeast-Midwest service, both the PRR and NYC had through trains between New York and Chicago, St. Louis, and Cincinnati, with at least one NYC train to Chicago routed through Detroit. The Erie had trains New York-Chicago, with service New York-Buffalo. The B&O had through service New York-Chicago and New York-Cincinnati-St. Louis that went through Washington, and Washington-Detroit.

There were many other, shorter runs,that served cities along the way. 

If you could find a copy of The Official Guide of the Railways  from the late forties or early fifties you may be surprised at the passenger service that was offered.

 

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Northeast Corridor Service Pre-Amtrak
Posted by Shock Control on Thursday, November 23, 2017 10:14 AM

Supposedly, Amtrak's bread and butter is the line between Washington, DC. and Boston, MA.  

In the 1990s, I lived in the northeast, in a few different cities, and had friends in every city between Boston and DC.  I used to take Amtrak quite a bit when I would visit them.  During rush hour trips, this train was packed to the gills with professionals. 

What was it like pre-Amtrak?  I know that the Pennsylvania Railroad had a passenger train called The Senator that linked these two cities.  What about other railroads?  I'm no expert, but it seems that much of the northeastern passenger service linked northeast cities to points further west.  

I'm just curious how many options were available to a traveler going between DC and Boston.  I'm also curious if Amtrak's current route includes any track that the PRR would have used for The Senator.  

Thanks in advance.  

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