Deggesty Buslist A McIntosh Buslist GERALD L MCFARLANE JR oltmannd You would think that Brightline would need PTC to legally operate. Passenger train on national network... Except for one little problem...FEC operates intirely within the state of Florida, though it may be connected to the national network FEC itself is not. Boy I bet all those other single state passenger operations, like CalTrain, will be glad to hear that! On Youtube, Gene Skorowpowski was giving a presentation in which he mentioned, if I recall, that FEC has its own PTC system, which is why he said that all freights operating on FEC either have an all FEC locomotive consist, or an FEC unit in the lead That lead locomotive requirement is for the cab signal system, much as it is on the UP's line across Illinois. Unless its been greatly enhanced somehow it does not not meet the legislated fictional requirements of PTC. I understand that the UP's cab signal system runs alway the way from Chicago to Ogden. Jeff, please correct me if I am wrong.
Buslist A McIntosh Buslist GERALD L MCFARLANE JR oltmannd You would think that Brightline would need PTC to legally operate. Passenger train on national network... Except for one little problem...FEC operates intirely within the state of Florida, though it may be connected to the national network FEC itself is not. Boy I bet all those other single state passenger operations, like CalTrain, will be glad to hear that! On Youtube, Gene Skorowpowski was giving a presentation in which he mentioned, if I recall, that FEC has its own PTC system, which is why he said that all freights operating on FEC either have an all FEC locomotive consist, or an FEC unit in the lead That lead locomotive requirement is for the cab signal system, much as it is on the UP's line across Illinois. Unless its been greatly enhanced somehow it does not not meet the legislated fictional requirements of PTC.
A McIntosh Buslist GERALD L MCFARLANE JR oltmannd You would think that Brightline would need PTC to legally operate. Passenger train on national network... Except for one little problem...FEC operates intirely within the state of Florida, though it may be connected to the national network FEC itself is not. Boy I bet all those other single state passenger operations, like CalTrain, will be glad to hear that! On Youtube, Gene Skorowpowski was giving a presentation in which he mentioned, if I recall, that FEC has its own PTC system, which is why he said that all freights operating on FEC either have an all FEC locomotive consist, or an FEC unit in the lead
Buslist GERALD L MCFARLANE JR oltmannd You would think that Brightline would need PTC to legally operate. Passenger train on national network... Except for one little problem...FEC operates intirely within the state of Florida, though it may be connected to the national network FEC itself is not. Boy I bet all those other single state passenger operations, like CalTrain, will be glad to hear that!
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR oltmannd You would think that Brightline would need PTC to legally operate. Passenger train on national network... Except for one little problem...FEC operates intirely within the state of Florida, though it may be connected to the national network FEC itself is not.
oltmannd You would think that Brightline would need PTC to legally operate. Passenger train on national network...
You would think that Brightline would need PTC to legally operate. Passenger train on national network...
Except for one little problem...FEC operates intirely within the state of Florida, though it may be connected to the national network FEC itself is not.
Boy I bet all those other single state passenger operations, like CalTrain, will be glad to hear that!
On Youtube, Gene Skorowpowski was giving a presentation in which he mentioned, if I recall, that FEC has its own PTC system, which is why he said that all freights operating on FEC either have an all FEC locomotive consist, or an FEC unit in the lead
That lead locomotive requirement is for the cab signal system, much as it is on the UP's line across Illinois. Unless its been greatly enhanced somehow it does not not meet the legislated fictional requirements of PTC.
I understand that the UP's cab signal system runs alway the way from Chicago to Ogden. Jeff, please correct me if I am wrong.
somewhere I thought UPs and C&NWs, although both US&S. based were slightly different somehow, but the memory gets faulty once in a while. IIRC North Western's system is 2 aspect without wayside intermediate signals (hence the requirement for an equipped locomotive leading) but still with distant and home signals. UP's is multiaspect with wayside signals. But PTC overlay still required In either case.
Johnny
Guess we just need to look a little harder. Interesting that they are not going with the WABTEC, system but with GE's system ala Michigan.
http://m.railwayage.com/index.php/ptc/all-aboard-florida-selects-ge-for-signaling-ptc.html
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
BaltACD Is or has FEC installing PTC on any of their existing lines?
Is or has FEC installing PTC on any of their existing lines?
They don't appear on any of the FRA reports that I can find so I guess not. No hazmat?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Buslist blue streak 1 Maybe some problems with PTC ? With all the PTC problems around the country certainly would not surprize anyone here.. Below is link to article very unclear. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/brightline-west-palm-miami-year-end/chdHJItoYLjUCcclTYArVL/ What PTC problems are you referring to?
blue streak 1 Maybe some problems with PTC ? With all the PTC problems around the country certainly would not surprize anyone here.. Below is link to article very unclear. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/brightline-west-palm-miami-year-end/chdHJItoYLjUCcclTYArVL/
Maybe some problems with PTC ? With all the PTC problems around the country certainly would not surprize anyone here..
Below is link to article very unclear.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/brightline-west-palm-miami-year-end/chdHJItoYLjUCcclTYArVL/
What PTC problems are you referring to?
Who knows? The extended version of the article never mentions that the delay was because of PTC or other signaling problems. It appears the necessary completion of the Miami terminal (track) is the main factor.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
kgbw49 If this passenger train operation turns a true unsubsidized profit - covering all operating expenses and all capital costs for equipment and roadbed plus a return for the owners - they will really have done something unique in the world.
If this passenger train operation turns a true unsubsidized profit - covering all operating expenses and all capital costs for equipment and roadbed plus a return for the owners - they will really have done something unique in the world.
You need to become familiar with the private Railways in Japan. There are 16 major privates all meeting your criteria.
blue streak 1 Appears that for some reason Brightline is posponing the opening of West Pam Beach - Fort Lauderdale to later in year. The article is someone vague. Maybe the whole MIA - WPB rote will be opened at same time. There is a hint about signals. Maybe some problems with PTC ? With all the PTC problems around the country certainly would not surprize anyone here.. Below is link to article very unclear. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/brightline-west-palm-miami-year-end/chdHJItoYLjUCcclTYArVL/
Appears that for some reason Brightline is posponing the opening of West Pam Beach - Fort Lauderdale to later in year. The article is someone vague. Maybe the whole MIA - WPB rote will be opened at same time. There is a hint about signals. Maybe some problems with PTC ? With all the PTC problems around the country certainly would not surprize anyone here..
Well here in Texas, construction has to be completed and then you have to run around and get permits from the Health Dept, Fire Dept, and I believe the final inspection from the Building Inspector. They roll all three together in some suburbs of Dallas but you have to submit a written request and it takes up to a week to a week and a half for them to complete all three. I'll bet in a City such as Miami the process probably takes up to a month. Not only that but typically you do not pass all three inspections unless your really good. So the Fire Department might gig you on too many seats in a given area or not enough exits or extinquishers, you have to fix it and get inspected again. They will let slide lack of fire extinguishers but not other items. Healh department makes an inspection of restrooms and/or eating areas. Building inspector checks out electric wiring and construction approach. Anyhoo, article states some of the stations are still under construction so my guess is they have not been inspected yet or have not passed inspection.
Buslist CandOforprogress2 Fortress Investment is out of the picture after shareholders and stakeholders pointed out that every passenger train venture has been a money loser. When did they bail? Any details? http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/03/28-all-aboard-florida-remains-with-fortress-after-fec-sale
CandOforprogress2 Fortress Investment is out of the picture after shareholders and stakeholders pointed out that every passenger train venture has been a money loser.
Fortress Investment is out of the picture after shareholders and stakeholders pointed out that every passenger train venture has been a money loser.
When did they bail? Any details?
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/03/28-all-aboard-florida-remains-with-fortress-after-fec-sale
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
blue streak 1 ... 4. Extension of Brightline from Cocoa <> Jax could make for a connecting train station at Cocoa. When the design of the Cocoa station is announced we can tell better Brightline 's plans. Again if Brightline ceases that would give Amtrak a good route.
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4. Extension of Brightline from Cocoa <> Jax could make for a connecting train station at Cocoa. When the design of the Cocoa station is announced we can tell better Brightline 's plans. Again if Brightline ceases that would give Amtrak a good route.
Brightlines agreement with the Beachline Expressway for ROW includes a non-competition clause, so there can never be a Cocoa Station (at least for local service.)
Tell that to the private Railways in Japan.
The best way to think of Brightline Florida is as a horizontal elevator that connects the developing downtown properties and thereby enhancing their value. If at any time the developing properties do not meet financial expectations: insufficient rentals, sales or leases then expect FECI's masters to pull the plug and cut their losses. The service will not be taken over by another party or the state. The contract with the vendor will be terminated, the equipment sold and the stations sold for some other use. Imagine a Starbucks with a view of the FEC main.
AAF or Brightline, whatever you want to call it, has always been linked with real estate development. It is simply a means to add additional value to the real estate portfolio. As to FEC freight service to Orlando, AAF says that this line from Coccoa is only for passenger. The same goes for the line over to Tampa, I suppose. If Brightline goes under, look for a contract passenger carrier to take it over. They and FECI can agree on service and price.
The future of Brightline may be complicated.
1. If Brightline track gets to Orlando airport that service will be permanent either by Brightline or a bad choice Amtrak.
2. With track to Orlando FEC can run freight trains to Orlando with a connection from airport to Florida Central RR. Trackage rights from Airport would probably be needed over Sun Rail to keep CSX from blocking access. "IF" Sunrail can make its route to airport by 2020 then that would fit ? That freight route would be faster than CSX from JAX.
3. Proposed extension of Brightline to Tampa could be a game changer both Passenger and freight. That may allow the already high Amtrak TPA <> south Florida STAR traffic to boom with an early TPA departure and late south Florida departures for the Florida east coast allowing same day connections to cruise ships for out of town visitors. Could be until Brightline route to TPA is built it could contract with Amtrak to operate Orlando <> TPA ?
Again Brightline's future will determine how these options progress ?
CMStPnP BaltACD Amtrak will exist long after Brightline That could be the outcome but I am still in the benefit of the doubt phase vs throwing in the towel. If Brightline is successful it would change the country's approach to rail corridor transportation much in the way that adoption of light rail has. Though I think the ONLY reason FEC got involved in this experiment was that their 6 trains a day or so main line wasn't making a whole lot of money and was running well under capacity.
BaltACD Amtrak will exist long after Brightline
That could be the outcome but I am still in the benefit of the doubt phase vs throwing in the towel. If Brightline is successful it would change the country's approach to rail corridor transportation much in the way that adoption of light rail has. Though I think the ONLY reason FEC got involved in this experiment was that their 6 trains a day or so main line wasn't making a whole lot of money and was running well under capacity.
The reason FEC got involved was that their owners saw what they thought was an untapped opportunity. Heard that directly from a Rail America exec.
BaltACDAmtrak will exist long after Brightline
CMStPnPI hope they find a way to keep the financing completely private vs obtaining a Federal Loan. If the system in Florida remains completely privately financed and it turns a profit.........it will open the door to other entrants. If not, well then we are stuck with Amtrak.
Amtrak will exist long after Brightline
I hope they find a way to keep the financing completely private vs obtaining a Federal Loan. If the system in Florida remains completely privately financed and it turns a profit.........it will open the door to other entrants. If not, well then we are stuck with Amtrak.
The delayed start up date is due to issues getting financing. They previously said that after financing is in place, then it would take about 30 months to build phase 2 to orlando. They have almost all of the permits for phase 2 approved. They recently in april started the process to formally apply for a 1.75B RRIF loan. They considered this loan back in 2013 but went instead with PAB's which didn't work out due to disinterest in PAB's in general by investors. They have had some success with the EB5 visa program though. Bright Red should be delivered in another 2-3 weeks. Lots of PTC testing and signal work yet to be done. They have been cutting in new crossovers this summer.
Question for our posters in south Florida. Could this Orlando delay be due to West Palm Beach - Cocoa taking longer to upgrade than originally planned ? Any reports of the WPB - COCOA progress ?
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