daveklepper Unfortunately, Schlimm, the people I am labeling as racists are racists, and if you wish to call me racists I have to accept that. Undoubtadly you think Soros does not promote racism. I know for a fact that he does. The Islamic Fundamentalists are the most racist people in the world, even more racist than even the South African white supremisists at their worst. And Soros directly helps funding Islamic Fundamentalism. And Holocaust denial. If you believe that terrorism against civilians and firing rockets into civilian areas while using children and women as defensive shields for the rocket launchers is an appropriate and useful negotiating tool, I cannot help you. But I know you are not a racist and basically a good person. I blame the New York Times and HaAretz for your views. Not you personally. Do you have any idea what is happening to Christian comuniities throughout the Islamic world?
Unfortunately, Schlimm, the people I am labeling as racists are racists, and if you wish to call me racists I have to accept that. Undoubtadly you think Soros does not promote racism. I know for a fact that he does. The Islamic Fundamentalists are the most racist people in the world, even more racist than even the South African white supremisists at their worst. And Soros directly helps funding Islamic Fundamentalism. And Holocaust denial.
If you believe that terrorism against civilians and firing rockets into civilian areas while using children and women as defensive shields for the rocket launchers is an appropriate and useful negotiating tool, I cannot help you.
But I know you are not a racist and basically a good person. I blame the New York Times and HaAretz for your views. Not you personally. Do you have any idea what is happening to Christian comuniities throughout the Islamic world?
Johnny
And hey, there is a connection to Gander. Taking care of refugees, whether Muslim or Jewish or Christian or Vietnamese Boat People, Cubans, etc. can use what happened at Gander as an example. I think Schlimm would agree with that.
I think of the story of the Cubans that escaping from Castro would be possible if they coverted an old Chevie truck into a boat, by simply mounting a propeller on the extension of the drive-shaft. They figured the immigration authorities would accept their story that they were coming on a USA moving territorial island. They should have been welcomed with open arms for their ingenuety!
daveklepperUnfortunately, Schlimm, the people I am labeling as racists are racists, and if you wish to call me racist I have to accept that. Undoubtadly you think Soros does not promote racism. I know for a fact that he does financially, not through words.
Labeling or implying that people (Soros) or institutions (Haaretz) are racist or anti-Semitic for daring to question or oppose the actions of the Bibi government is McCarthyite smearing at its worst.
Soros: "I do not subscribe to the myths propagated by enemies of Israel and I am not blaming Jews for anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism predates the birth of Israel. Neither Israel's policies nor the critics of those policies should be held responsible for anti-Semitism. At the same time, I do believe that attitudes toward Israel are influenced by Israel's policies, and attitudes toward the Jewish community are influenced by the pro-Israel lobby's success in suppressing divergent views."
According to hacked emails released in 2016, Soros' Open Society Foundation has a
self-described objective of “challenging Israel’s racist and anti-democratic policies .
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I told you already I have no real gripe about what Soros says. I do disagree with him about Israel's policies, where just defending human lives is called war crimes, but I do not say he is promoting anti-Semitism by what he says. It is where he puts his money where I have problems. Certain of the organizations he funds defend the use of terror as a negotiating tool and blame Israel and Jews for problems, at least one including one or more people who are actually involved in terror. And he has financially helped people who maintain the Holocaust is a myth. Especially when one or more are caught teaching outright lies in universities and loose their jobs by turning education into propaganda and even the teaching of hate.
I did not say that either HaAretz or the New York Times are anti-Semitic. I can say that they are often blind to anti-Semitism and often do not present facts important to the issues they are discussing. Both newspapers give very inadequate coverage to what Arab leaders say to Arabs, to the persecution of Christians in Arab lands, and to the expressed motives of terrorists as they themselves state while performing terrorism.
And the New York Times and HaAretz are hardly repressed! But on some college campuses pro-Israel anti-BDS voices have been repressed.
daveklepperI told you already I have no real gripe about what Soros says.
daveklepperAnd he has financially helped people who maintain the Holocaust is a myth. Especially when one or more are caught teaching outright lies in universities and loose their jobs by turning education into propaganda and even the teaching of hate.
That is a very serious accusation. Let's see the proof from a respected source or retract your smear.
You seem to equate criticism of the current Israeli government, such as by Soros or John Mearsheimer, with anti-Semitism. It is not. But that tactic smells of the worst of McCarthyism.
Holocaust denial is not criticism of the Israeli Government. It is anti-Semitism. Kalt and Mersheimer are Holocaust deniers. Soros has contributed money to them.
Why is it, that anybody who does not completely, unequivocally and unquestioningly support the actions of Israel is branded as an anti-Semite? It implies that disagreement or dissent is the equivalent of hate.
I certainly do not call anyone who criticizes Israel and anti-Semite. Who on this thread does? But denying the fact that the Holocaust occured seems to me to identify someone as an anti-Semite. And I do not recall any official reprsentative of the Israeli government calling people who criticize Israel's policies an anti-Semite.
But someone who criticizes Israel's policies and then recommends serious punitive actions against Israel may well be an anti-Semite. But then again he may just be miissinformed. In either case, if he or she doesn't also recommend serious punitive actions against other nations who are clearly doing far more of what he or she accuses Israel of doing.
But someone who denies that the Holocaust happened is an anti-Semite, and so are those who support that person and demand that he or she has a right to teach students. (But he or she can make bricks or make a million on the stock market, but not teach students, in my opinion.)
And obviously someone who has taught that the Holocaust did not exist or supports such "teachers" might require some careful examination before his or her criticism of Israeli policies are considered.
Can you understand this? Without just repeating your message? Which clearly DOES NOT APPLY.
Going just a bit further, the cases of the NewYork Times and HaAretz. Specifically, I did not call them anti-Semitic. What I did say is that they are often blind to anti-Semitism.
A example of how the Times gets things wrong is in, I believe, today's issue. A headline something like "Isreal stops its critics form entering." What the truth is that non-Israelis, visitors, who have supported BDS, and BDS's object is to destroy Israel, are now prevented from entering. That is a very different matter, indeed. Thomas Friedman, the Times columist who regularly criticises Israel, still will have no trouble entering, because he never specifically supported BDS. EVen those who advocate a cut in foreign aid will be admitted. But not those that support an anti-Israel boycott.
Would any reader want intending visitors who support the destruction of the USA to be able to visit the USA?
And getting back to the topic: Of course none of the people forced o stop-over in Gander in 11-09-01 were even considering destroying Canada or Newfoundland or Gander. But the theology/ideology of those who brought on the tragedy has not been eradicated. I truly believe it can be. But not when people who believe either that it doesn't exist or that military might can do the job alone are in charge.
daveklepper I certainly do not call anyone who criticizes Israel and anti-Semite. Who on this thread does? But denying the fact that the Holocaust occured seems to me to identify someone as an anti-Semite. And I do not recall any official reprsentative of the Israeli government calling people who criticize Israel's policies an anti-Semite. But someone who criticizes Israel's policies and then recommends serious punitive actions against Israel may well be an anti-Semite. But then again he may just be miissinformed. In either case, if he or she doesn't also recommend serious punitive actions against other nations who are clearly doing far more of what he or she accuses Israel of doing. But someone who denies that the Holocaust happened is an anti-Semite, and so are those who support that person and demand that he or she has a right to teach students. (But he or she can make bricks or make a million on the stock market, but not teach students, in my opinion.) And obviously someone who has taught that the Holocaust did not exist or supports such "teachers" might require some careful examination before his or her criticism of Israeli policies are considered. Can you understand this? Without just repeating your message? Which clearly DOES NOT APPLY.
You seem to deny your previous statements, so I will simply ask two concise questions.
1. Can a person oppose the Israeli government without being anti-Israel or anti-Jewish? I think in a democracy that is true. But some powerful Israelis would disagree.
2. Holocaust denial is abhorrent. Per se, that should disqualify teachers of history. The private (as long as they remain private) views of someone in unrelated disciplines are irrelevant. Otherwise those who prevent that person from teaching are only on marginally better ethical grounds than the NS did in relation to Jewish academics. It's like the notorious blacklists here. Do you have any reputable citations to support your comments re Soros on that score? I asked that question once already.
daveklepperIt is anti-Semitism. Kalt and Mersheimer are Holocaust deniers.
That is simply a lie about John Hersheimer..
1. Which statements did I deny? I think I have been very careful to be consistant. Ahah--- To clarify - not teach students, I meant not teach students Holocaust Denial. Hope that clears up the matter. Obviously not be a history professor or specifically a teacher of European History, or German culture or Jewish history.
2. Concerning Soros, yes, definitely. But that is a matter for private distribution, not via this website, and would not know how to post it anyway. If you contact me at daveklepper@yahoo.com, I can bring the matters from my archive and attach it as part of return email. The sites where I got this information are, of course, defenders of Israel's right to exist and also against the etablishment of a "Palestinian" state that would continue to be a center of anti-Semitism and terror. (As opposed to one that would work cooperatively with Israel,)
3. I agree with your first statement, But the powerful Israelis are not that powerful. Israel is also a democracy, and most Israelis would agree with your statement and so would Netanyahu, not withstanding a few of the members of his cabinet.
The problem is when criticism is built on lies. An example, and good example of what most Israelis think is wrong with a large segment of USA Jewry, is Bernie Sanders saying Israelis killed 10,000 civilians in Gaza. He did apologize for that statement later. The actual number was less than 400, Israel did take all possible precautions to minimize civilian casualties, far beyond normal warfare, Hamas started the attack with their tunnels and missels, and then are truly guilty of these deaths because they deliberately used civlians as shields for their rocket launchers.
If Bernie Sanders, who I do not label an anti-Semite, but simply open to missinformation, or Soros, who has funded people that I consider anti-Semites, criticises Israel, I think their criticism can be discounted. When Senator Charles Shummer criticises Israel, even if I usually disagree with him except on public transportation matters, I think his criticism should be respected. I am just mentioning people born Jewish in making these comparisons. But to think that people are silenced either in the USA or in Israel is simiply rediculous. Rather it is the BDS crowd that has taken to actual violence on certain college and university campuses to silence pro-Israel voices.
And I agree that Holovcaust deniers who do not use their teaching positions to teach this nonsense should not be thrown out for their views. But apparently Kalt and Mersheimer did teach this and/or used their teaching positions to promolgate their views with their students.
On one campus there is a professor who is considered outstanding by some in his field. Others think his approach to his disciplin is not correct, and their is some controversy, and I cannot judge this matter, since it is not my specialty. He has always been an ant-Zionist and so were his parents. And he has written books presenting these views. But he keeps this whole matter off the campus, and he has no problem with his Jewish, even Israeli, students. He and I do share similar views on matters more main-stream for this website, and our correspondence has always remained polite, even when we disagree. And this is also a campus where there is a joint venture of Hillel and Muslim Students' Association to keep things calm and even friendly.
daveklepperConcerning Soros, yes, definitely. But that is a matter for private distribution, not via this website
If the sources' links cannot be seen in public, it strongly casts doubt on their accuracy. As to Mearsheimer's alleged anti-Semitism, prove it.
Smells like smears of any Jews who attack current Israeli policy.
Please contact the Gatestone Institute, www.gatestoneinstitute.org, and ask them to send you a list of organizations to which Soros has contributed. Then also ask them which organizations have officers who have supported terror. You will get the answers.
Please contact the Gatestone Institute, www.gatestoneinstitute.org, and ask them to send you a list of organizations to which Soros has contributed. Then alsd ask them which fo these organizations have officers who have supported terror.
daveklepperdaveklepper wrote the following post an hour ago: Please contact the Gatestone Institute, www.gatestoneinstitute.org, and ask them to send you a list of organizations to which Soros has contributed. Then also ask them which organizations have officers who have supported terror. You will get the answers.
That is an extreme right wing, anti-Islamist organization. Some of the people listed are notorious racists. Others are associated with the folks who pushed us into attacking Iraq with a great loss of blood and treasure. No thanks.
schlimm daveklepper daveklepper wrote the following post an hour ago: Please contact the Gatestone Institute, www.gatestoneinstitute.org, and ask them to send you a list of organizations to which Soros has contributed. Then also ask them which organizations have officers who have supported terror. You will get the answers. That is an extreme right wing, anti-Islamist organization. Some of the people listed are notorious racists. Others are associated with the folks who pushed us into attacking Iraq with a great loss of blood and treasure. No thanks.
daveklepper daveklepper wrote the following post an hour ago: Please contact the Gatestone Institute, www.gatestoneinstitute.org, and ask them to send you a list of organizations to which Soros has contributed. Then also ask them which organizations have officers who have supported terror. You will get the answers.
I took a look at that Web site:
"The Origin of 'Fake News' in Holocaust Denial by Alan M. Dershowitz, March 23 2017 at 5:30 PM"
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Paul Milenkovic schlimm daveklepper daveklepper wrote the following post an hour ago: Please contact the Gatestone Institute, www.gatestoneinstitute.org, and ask them to send you a list of organizations to which Soros has contributed. Then also ask them which organizations have officers who have supported terror. You will get the answers. That is an extreme right wing, anti-Islamist organization. Some of the people listed are notorious racists. Others are associated with the folks who pushed us into attacking Iraq with a great loss of blood and treasure. No thanks. I took a look at that Web site: "The Origin of 'Fake News' in Holocaust Denial by Alan M. Dershowitz, March 23 2017 at 5:30 PM"
1. You fail to note any of the long list of extreme rightists there.
2. Dershowitz is a liberal, but on Israel, he stands with that government's policies, attacking anyone who dares be critical. This is the sort of character assassination he does, often with no actual proof.
"In March 2006, John Mearsheimer, professor of political science at the University of Chicago, and Stephen Walt, professor of international affairs at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, co-wrote a paper entitled "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy," published in The London Review of Books. Mearsheimer and Walt criticized what they described as "the Israel lobby" for influencing U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East in a direction away from U.S. interests and toward Israel's interests. They referred to Dershowitz specifically as an "apologist" for the Israel lobby. In an interview in March 2006 for The Harvard Crimson, Dershowitz called the article "one-sided" and its authors "liars" and "bigots." The following day on MSNBC's Scarborough Country, he suggested the paper had been taken from various hate sites: "every paragraph virtually is copied from a neo-Nazi Web site, from a radical Islamic Web site, from David Duke’s Web site." Dershowitz subsequently wrote a report challenging the paper, arguing that it contained "three types of major errors: quotations are wrenched out of context, important facts are misstated or omitted, and embarrassingly weak logic is employed." In a letter in the London Review of Books in May 2006, Mearsheimer and Walt denied that they had used any racist sources for their article, writing that Dershowitz had failed to offer any evidence to support his claim." [Wiki]
Ever eaten a cod tongue? Ever been Screeched in? Newfoundand traditions, they are. Know what the Bluenose is and why others like it had a key role in making Newfie Screech? Do you know what that is and why it was popular amongst American servicemen in Newfoundland in WW2?
(a pathetic attempt at changing the subject back to the Rock)
I may fail at many things, but I won't diss' the Dersh'.
Paul Milenkovic I may fail at many things, but I won't diss' the Dersh'.
Good. But I won't give him a free pass on everything merely because I agree with him on so much.
BTW, although I do not agree with many of Walt's contentions, I support his right to speak without being smeared as an anti-Semite. Ditto with Mearsheimer.
As to ad hominem attacks, as an academic you should appreciate that. Suppose you wrote a paper critical of current dental practices with crown structure based on principles of engineering? And were attacked as an "anti-Dendrite" (apologies to Seinfeld, season 8, episode 19).
schlimm Paul Milenkovic I may fail at many things, but I won't diss' the Dersh'. Good. But I won't give him a free pass on everything merely because I agree with him on so much.
Emeritus Harvard Law Professor Alan M. Dershowitz, who has commented on many public matters over the years, putting his professional reputation on the line, is in agreement with an anonymous commenter on Trains Magazine on most matters except for a couple points of disagreement. It is on those points that the distinguished scholar of the law is flat out wrong. I guess that settles that and we can all move on, now.
I thought this was a RAILROAD forum. Can we agree to disagree and get off the political topics. I have views on political issues but I won't get into them here. I would like to say that the wonderful people of Gander deserve our thanks for how they treated their guests I commend them for their generosity.
54light15 Ever eaten a cod tongue? Ever been Screeched in? Newfoundand traditions, they are. Know what the Bluenose is and why others like it had a key role in making Newfie Screech? Do you know what that is and why it was popular amongst American servicemen in Newfoundland in WW2? (a pathetic attempt at changing the subject back to the Rock)
Cod tongues? YES! Fried with scrunceons, and man does it taste good!
Been Screeched In? No, that's just for tourists, and I don't do the usual tourist stuff.
The "Bluenose?" She was an outstanding Nova Scotia schooner, now portrayed on some Canadian currency, if I'm following the train of thought here. In addition to fishing she brought that good Jamaican rum up to the Maritimes for conversion into the high-test version called "Screech," but as I said I never touched the stuff.
I did drink a lot of "Black Horse" beer last time I was up there. As the ad said, "A heckuva nice beer!"
I NEVER did try seal flipper pie. The idea of some poor seal rolling around with no flippers was not to be bourne! Anyway, Lady Firestorm's mother said that was for "Cove Folk."
There was also the M.V. Bluenose which was a ferry between Newfoundland and Nova Scotia, carrying, as I recall, railroad cars and highway cars.
Regarding the Bluenose and other boats like her, one of the reasons that salted Cod was part of the Jamaican diet was that the boats would bring the Cod to the islands and return with sugar cane to Newfoundland. That's what a former Jamaican-born girlfriend told me. The screech was made on the rock. I've had it. No wonder I don't drink rum!
Look for Dashwood on the old map, between Glenwood and Benton.
http://www.ganderairporthistoricalsociety.org/_html_thirtys/Gander_1936.htm
http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/Exhibitions/Railway/en/m1.php?id=6
I've been familiar with Bluenose for many years and have always wondered about the name. It must have a local meaning I'm not familiar with.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Paul MilenkovicEmeritus Harvard Law Professor Alan M. Dershowitz, who has commented on many public matters over the years, putting his professional reputation on the line, is in agreement with an anonymous commenter on Trains Magazine on most matters except for a couple points of disagreement. It is on those points that the distinguished scholar of the law is flat out wrong.
Try reading others' comments accurately, instead of going off on a tangent. Both Prof. Dershowitz and I were exercising our constitutional rights to comment, in this case on issues unrelated to our fields. I simply think ad hominem attacks (calling someone an anti-Semite without good cause) is wrong. If the topic were constitutional law, I would defer to Prof. Dershowitz, just as I would defer to your opinion over his on engineering topics.
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