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Amtrak winter experiences

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, February 8, 2017 9:19 PM

As of 2200  ( 10:00 PM ) Amtrak shows no cancellations or changes for expected snow.  Some changes at MBTA ( not yet ), MTA ( subway trains stored on express tracks most trains local only ), NJ Transit ( still normal tomorrow ), SEPTA ( no info ),  MARC ( no info )

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Wednesday, February 8, 2017 10:29 AM

BNSF restored service between Summit and Essex MT at 23:45 PM Central time, 22:45 Local, Tuesday 2/7.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 11:21 PM

schlimm
Don't be such a Hoosier.  Recent winters, seems like Richmond could use heaters more than Chicago.

but then there is the West Virginia slaw dog metric!

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 10:15 PM

Don't be such a Hoosier.  Recent winters, seems like Richmond could use heaters more than Chicago.

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Posted by n012944 on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 6:12 PM

schlimm

 

 
n012944

 

 
schlimm

 

 
BaltACD
Pre and Post Stagger's there is a different mind set as to what is required to run a railroad - Post Stagger's if an investment can't bring something to the bottom line 365 days a year the investment is rarely made.

 

Short-sighted.  Although Chicago has been almost snowless b/c of climate change of late, a few years back we had some heavy snows, which Metra and the BNSF, UP and others managed to handle.

 

 

 

 

I am not sure what you point is. Just about every interlocking in Chicago is equipped with switch heaters.  

 

Lets look at it this way.  You won't find a fleet of snow plows in cities in the south, just in case of a once a decade snow storm.  You won't find tons of road salt in areas of the south, just in case.  You won't find de-iceing pads at the Orlando airport like you do at Denver, just in case.  And you won't find switch heaters in areas that don't get much snow, just in case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
AFAIK, this thread was not entitled, "Amtrak's Winter Experience in the South."
 

AFAIK, the only place in the thread where there was a switch heater issue that you seem to take such issue with, was in Richmond, which IS in the south.  Sorry, I thought we were talking about actual delays caused by the lack of switch heaters, and the reasons why there are none there.  I didn't realize you were ranting just to rant. My apologies.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/where-does-the-south-begin/70052/

"Most Americans would agree that Richmond is a southern town"

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 4:53 PM

n012944

 

 
schlimm

 

 
BaltACD
Pre and Post Stagger's there is a different mind set as to what is required to run a railroad - Post Stagger's if an investment can't bring something to the bottom line 365 days a year the investment is rarely made.

 

Short-sighted.  Although Chicago has been almost snowless b/c of climate change of late, a few years back we had some heavy snows, which Metra and the BNSF, UP and others managed to handle.

 

 

 

 

I am not sure what you point is. Just about every interlocking in Chicago is equipped with switch heaters.  

 

Lets look at it this way.  You won't find a fleet of snow plows in cities in the south, just in case of a once a decade snow storm.  You won't find tons of road salt in areas of the south, just in case.  You won't find de-iceing pads at the Orlando airport like you do at Denver, just in case.  And you won't find switch heaters in areas that don't get much snow, just in case.

 

 

 

 

 

 
AFAIK, this thread was not entitled, "Amtrak's Winter Experience in the South."

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 4:20 PM
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Posted by n012944 on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 3:46 PM

schlimm

 

 
BaltACD
Pre and Post Stagger's there is a different mind set as to what is required to run a railroad - Post Stagger's if an investment can't bring something to the bottom line 365 days a year the investment is rarely made.

 

Short-sighted.  Although Chicago has been almost snowless b/c of climate change of late, a few years back we had some heavy snows, which Metra and the BNSF, UP and others managed to handle.

 

 

I am not sure what you point is. Just about every interlocking in Chicago is equipped with switch heaters.  

 

Lets look at it this way.  You won't find a fleet of snow plows in cities in the south, just in case of a once a decade snow storm.  You won't find tons of road salt in areas of the south, just in case.  You won't find de-iceing pads at the Orlando airport like you do at Denver, just in case.  And you won't find switch heaters in areas that don't get much snow, just in case.

 

 

 

 

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 12:17 PM

US - 2 still closed so no bus bridge possible.  Wonder if Amtrak rerouting passengers Cal Z / Starlight ?  Here is Montana hwy dept notice

WEST GLACIER TO PINNACLEROAD CLOSED AT ESSEX,

MILE 180SnowingSnowcoverRoad Closed

PINNACLE TO DEVIL CREEKROAD IMPASSABLE DUE TO DRIFTINGRoad Closed7 MILES WEST OF MARIAS PASS

OVER MARIAS PASSSnowingBlowing and DriftingSnow and IceRoad Closed

EAST SIDE OF MARIAS PASS TO EAST GLACIERSnowingSnow and IceRoad Closed

EAST GLACIER TO BROWNINGLIGHTLY SNOWINGSnowing ICE

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Posted by petitnj on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 6:50 AM

What is bizzare is that #7 is reporting on time into St. Paul, MN at 6:20 AM on Tuesday. That train is scheduled to arrive in St. Paul at 10 PM. Also #8 is reporting on-time at St. Cloud, MN -- that matches the train's normal schedule. Sounds like things are really confused. 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, February 6, 2017 9:26 PM
 
 

Sounder trains cancelled due to bad weather.  Wonder if this will also affect Starlight and Cascades trains ?

 

Sound Transit <soundtransit@public.govdelivery.com> Due to the previous extreme weather conditions four south Line Sounder trains are cancelled: Northbound: The #1522 (4:30pm Tacoma departure)The #1524 (5:00pm Tacoma departure) Southbound: The #1517 (4

  
Today at 6:08 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, February 6, 2017 6:14 PM

BNSF line probably not cleared before tomorrow afternoon.  It will be interesting how Amtrak will handle the BNSF 48 hour no passengers on any train passing thru a mud slide or avalanche section ?.

http://www.dailyinterlake.com/article/20170206/ARTICLE/170209910

 

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Monday, February 6, 2017 5:16 PM

BNSF is advising customers that they now project opening the line at 4PM Tues, the 7th. This is subject to fall down of course.

Mac

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, February 6, 2017 11:48 AM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, February 6, 2017 11:33 AM

Follow on to Bruce Kelly;s post.  His link shows 7 & 8 both stopped.  Also note on his link VIA #2  -- 9+ hours late.

 

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Severe Weather Impacting the Empire Builder

February 6, 2017

6:15AM MST

Due to hazards created by the severe winter weather the Empire Builder is not able to operate at this time between Minot, ND and Spokane, WA. We are not able to provide alternate services at this time. Amtrak passengers are advised to check Amtrak.com or call 800-USA-RAIL for the latest update on your train’s status.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant.


Passengers with travel plans can confirm their train's status, change their plans or review refund information using a range of tools – including Amtrak.com, smartphone apps or by calling 800-USA-RAIL. Service Alerts, Passenger Notices and other announcements are posted at Amtrak.com/alerts.

 

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Posted by Bruce Kelly on Monday, February 6, 2017 9:44 AM

Avalanche on Marias Pass late yesterday. Empire Builders (7 and 8) currently stuck on either side.

http://asm.transitdocs.com/

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, February 5, 2017 7:26 PM

Since Amtrak is always late or no alerts this alert from Sound Transit about rail transit in part will be posted here.  This weather event may effect Amtrak Empire builder operation near Seattle.

 
 

Sound Transit <soundtransit@public.govdelivery.com> At the time of this Rider Alert, no Sound Transit service is currently affected by weather. Inclement weather advisories are stating that transit service may be affected by snow or ice starting late S

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Today at 7:07 PM
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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:51 AM

schlimm
BaltACD

Short-sighted.  Although Chicago has been almost snowless b/c of climate change of late, a few years back we had some heavy snows, which Metra and the BNSF, UP and others managed to handle.

Chicago routinely has snow most years - not having snow is an exception.  The Carolinas routinely don't have snow - having heavy snow is an exception.

Basing Capital Investments on exceptions is not good use of capital.

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, February 4, 2017 5:51 PM

BaltACD
Pre and Post Stagger's there is a different mind set as to what is required to run a railroad - Post Stagger's if an investment can't bring something to the bottom line 365 days a year the investment is rarely made.

Short-sighted.  Although Chicago has been almost snowless b/c of climate change of late, a few years back we had some heavy snows, which Metra and the BNSF, UP and others managed to handle.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:49 AM

More info on UP trestle fire.

http://www.ksat.com/news/trestle-fire-stops-trains-near-macdona

Bridge appears to be single track ? Not clear if UP was already planning to replace the bridge but if so wonder if it will be part of the two tracking of the Sunset route ?

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, February 3, 2017 5:11 PM

Unconfirmed report that a bridge on UP west of San Antionia burned and causing Sunset problems.  Further report Amtrak unable to get buses due to Super Bowl taking all available ?  UP certainly has had bridge problems in the past year or so.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, February 3, 2017 12:31 PM

Even with all the bad weather Amtrak does not have any train over 2 hours late as of now.  Contrast that to VIA that has the eastbound Canadian east of Winnepeg 12 hours late.  It may be able to make up time but we will see ?

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, February 3, 2017 10:31 AM

schlimm
BaltACD

When most trains are not on actual schedules, the cost of delays from frozen switches apparently matters less than the cost of purchase and maintenance.

Back in the day - MofW and Signal forces generally lived within walking distance of their headquarters point and had the tools of their trade readily at hand to keep traffic moving.

In the 21st Century, instead of a 8-10 man MofW Gang responsible for 8 to 10 miles of right of way and a signal maintainer that is responsible for a single interlocking you now have 3-4 man MofW Gang that is responsible for 50-100 miles of right of way and signal maintainers are responsible for multiple control points over 50 miles or more.  The key to them adequately performing their responsibilities is unrestricted highway mobility - mobility that gets severly restricted, if not eliminated, when winter storms do their thing.  Restricting personnel's ability to do their jobs restricts the carriers ability to maintain service.  Technology can only combat Mother Nature's fury to an extent - beyond technology it comes back to manpower using brooms and ice chippers to free frozen switches - manpower that barely exists in the 21st Century.

Pre and Post Stagger's there is a different mind set as to what is required to run a railroad - Post Stagger's if an investment can't bring something to the bottom line 365 days a year the investment is rarely made.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, February 3, 2017 8:38 AM

BaltACD
My former carrier's real but not written Winter Contingency Plan was - Pray for Spring.  Punxy Phil was the weather forecaster.

When most trains are not on actual schedules, the cost of delays from frozen switches apparently matters less than the cost of purchase and maintenance.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, February 2, 2017 6:35 PM

Blackcloud 5229
schlimm
ACY

"A single switch issue can easily generate hours of delay"

Currently, Auto Train is running about 9 hours late northbound; about 10 or more hours late southbound account frozen switches in Richmond. The northbound train hasn't arrved in Richmond yet. Its delay was caused yesterday when that consist went south.

Tom

Not to be negative, but surely some sort of modern technology should be able to manage frozen switches sufficiently to reduce those costly (to freight and passenger) delays?

I recall the throat of the C&NW Madison St. terminal 50+ years ago, with many switch heaters burning with a bright blue flame in winter weather. Worked well. Perhaps something even better could be developed?

true there is switch heater technology that could keep the switches operational but the location of these frozen switches is where you might need a switch heater in the past maybe once or twice in 20-30 years. Not really needed in the past. A single electric or gas switch heater can cost in excess of $50000 for one switcH that might be needed once in 10 years. Most railroads have more urgent projects to fix with that money. 

If you owned the railroad could you justify the investment in switch heaters that would be used once or so every ten years? I doubt it highly. Most railroads in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, or Florida don't use switch heaters but with the changing weather patterns I'm sure they are rethinking weather or not to install switch heaters. 

Another reason not to install them in the listed states is natural gas isn't available to a lot of switches so you have to install a large propane tank or go all electric if commercial power is available the original option is a man on foot keeping them clean and kerosene switch heaters which need to be kept an eye on to refuel and clear snow piled up on them by trains. Electric is the best option as the dispatcher simply turns them on by remote control and with a cctv camera mount at the cp point the dispatcher can look at various areas of the cp to make sure the switch heaters are working correctly. 

 

I remember once on the mountain division I worked the railroad installed a new all electric switch heaters at a remote cp. 4 switches. First time he needed it turned it on and five minutes later the trouble light came on for the switch heaters. Sent out a signalman to fix and an hour later heard the signalman calling him on the radio, your switch heaters aren't gonna work tonight! 

Why not?

that 60 KW diesel generator we installed it's gone. That was the first time in my career I heard a dispatch cussing on the radio. They replaced it 27 hours later and paid a railroad police officer to babysit the generator.

Any form of switch heater is prone to failure.

Smudge pots (the kerosene fueled swith heaters of old) are frequently extinguished by local fire departments as local residents report 'the railroad is on fire'.  Then MofW has to chip out the ice from the fire departments actions.

Electric powered devices are normally installed where commercial power is available - Commercial power will fail frequently in the heavier snow storms.  Maintainers then have to install temporary generators until commercial power is restored.  While signals at these locations use the same commercial power, the power actually feeds batteries that can sustain signal operations for 24 hours or more.

Gas fired switch heaters - it is very rare for a control point to be located where commercial natural gas can be used as the fuel; more normally the heaters are propane fueled - depending upon the size of the control point and the number of switches that require heaters one or more 500 gallon propane tanks will be installed and piping will be run to the switches as necessary.  At least on my former carrier these heaters have to be manually lit.  The vibration from passing trains does break the piping from time to time and if it is while the heaters are in use, there will be a gas fire somewhere in the plant (not at a heater) that has to be extinguised and have the pipe repaired.

My former carrier's real but not written Winter Contingency Plan was - Pray for Spring.  Punxy Phil was the weather forecaster.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Blackcloud 5229 on Thursday, February 2, 2017 4:49 PM

schlimm

 

 
ACY

"A single switch issue can easily generate hours of delay"

Currently, Auto Train is running about 9 hours late northbound; about 10 or more hours late southbound account frozen switches in Richmond. The northbound train hasn't arrved in Richmond yet. Its delay was caused yesterday when that consist went south.

Tom 

 

 

 

Not to be negative, but surely some sort of modern technology should be able to manage frozen switches sufficiently to reduce those costly (to freight and passenger) delays?

I recall the throat of the C&NW Madison St. terminal 50+ years ago, with many switch heaters burning with a bright blue flame in winter weather. Worked well. Perhaps something even better could be developed?

 

true there is switch heater technology that could keep the switches operational but the location of these frozen switches is where you might need a switch heater in the past maybe once or twice in 20-30 years. Not really needed in the past. A single electric or gas switch heater can cost in excess of $50000 for one switcH that might be needed once in 10 years. Most railroads have more urgent projects to fix with that money. 

If you owned the railroad could you justify the investment in switch heaters that would be used once or so every ten years? I doubt it highly. Most railroads in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, or Florida don't use switch heaters but with the changing weather patterns I'm sure they are rethinking weather or not to install switch heaters. 

Another reason not to install them in the listed states is natural gas isn't available to a lot of switches so you have to install a large propane tank or go all electric if commercial power is available the original option is a man on foot keeping them clean and kerosene switch heaters which need to be kept an eye on to refuel and clear snow piled up on them by trains. Electric is the best option as the dispatcher simply turns them on by remote control and with a cctv camera mount at the cp point the dispatcher can look at various areas of the cp to make sure the switch heaters are working correctly. 

 

I remember once on the mountain division I worked the railroad installed a new all electric switch heaters at a remote cp. 4 switches. First time he needed it turned it on and five minutes later the trouble light came on for the switch heaters. Sent out a signalman to fix and an hour later heard the signalman calling him on the radio, your switch heaters aren't gonna work tonight! 

Why not?

 

that 60 KW diesel generator we installed it's gone. That was the first time in my career I heard a dispatch cussing on the radio. They replaced it 27 hours later and paid a railroad police officer to babysit the generator.

 

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, January 23, 2017 8:00 PM

#6 today left EMY 8 hours late to allow UP to continue Doner clearinf.  #5 will be holding east until released.

The Nor'easter in NJ has caused problems as well.

Amtrak had commercial power lines fall onto the CAT east of Linden, NJ.  Must have been a very brilliant display until the CBs protecting quit resetting.  as of 0840PM trains are still running late.  Southbound trains backed up so badly that 19 for instance left NYP on time and got to Newark 2:40 + hours late and now about 4+ hours late at wilmington, DE.  Similar problems still 4 + hours for all southbounds. 

According to NJT trains are going at restricted speed thru the area.  Suspect power line hit the signal power lines ?  Lot of work ahead to replace parts ?

 

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Amtrak Restores Service in New Jersey

Jan. 23, 2017
5:43 p.m. EST

Service has been restored for Amtrak trains operating in New Jersey. Service was temporarily suspended for Northeast Regional and Acela Express trains traveling in New Jersey. The suspension was due to commercial power lines down in area east of Linden, N.J. Customers will experience residual delays.

This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant.

Passengers with travel plans can confirm their train's status, change their plans or review refund information using a range of tools – including Amtrak.com, smartphone apps or by calling 800-USA-RAIL. Service Alerts, Passenger Notices and other announcements are posted at Amtrak.com/alerts.

Follow @Amtrak on Twitter.

 

Now NJT as of 9:13 has cancelled all eastbound trains for some reason. Here are some advisories.

Travel Alerts
Jan 23, 2017  09:10:05 PM
NEC eastbound trains between Trenton and Metropark are suspended due to an operational issue caused by an earlier overhead wire problem near Linden.
Jan 23, 2017  08:51:16 PM
NEC train #3882, the 9:09pm from Trenton, is CANCELLED due to operational issues as a result of the earlier overhead wire problem.
Jan 23, 2017  08:48:57 PM
NEC train #3880, the 8:39pm from Trenton, is CANCELLED due to operational issues as a result of the earlier overhead wire problem.
Jan 23, 2017  08:17:32 PM
NEC and NJCL rail service has resumed between Penn Station New York and Trenton and Long Branch in both directions. Customers will experience significant delays due to restricted speeds through the Linden area.

 Note different sites have different times for Newark so take this post as not gospel ! ! !

 

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, January 23, 2017 12:06 PM
 
 

Appears that thruway buses still not operating towards Reno.  With UP closing Donner during day to work on tracks no way for train(s) to operate and carry passengers and auto traffic.  Guess the casinos are being hurt ?  Cal Z will be leaving EMY late again  today. 

LINK

Capitol Corridor <capitolcorridor@public.govdelivery.com> A winter storm in the Sierra is expected to carry into early Monday morning, January 23, with lighter snow expected throughout the day. Based on this report and the continued unreliability of the weat

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Jan 22 at 8:18 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, January 20, 2017 4:08 AM
Capitol corridor unable to operate most its thruway buses east of Sacremento all weekend . 
 

Capitol Corridor <capitolcorridor@public.govdelivery.com> With storms expected to hit the Sierra Friday, January 20, through Sunday, January 22, and possibly into Monday, Capitol Corridor's connecting bus service is cancelled on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday

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Posted by NorthWest on Thursday, January 19, 2017 11:13 PM

Yes, it did. 3012 leading AMTK 116 south. It has been a terrible year for timekeeping on 11/14.

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