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Ed Ellis, Privately run Passenger Train discussion, April 2016 Colorado

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, September 22, 2016 12:30 PM

Instead of BOS  -  Newport news sleeper run the sleeper BOS - WASH then attach it onto the end of of the Meteor to MIA.  Unfortunately northbound poses many problems.

Now if Palmetto is ever extended to MIA but fat chance.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, September 22, 2016 12:00 PM

Minor problem.  If Ellis ran his own sleepers behind a Superliner consist, he would also have to provide his own dining car and lounge equipment, adding to his expense with not much more income.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 4:00 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

If the Pullman Rail Journeys Chicago-New Orleans operation did not draw enough passengers, what would make a Newport News-Boston line any better?

 

It might not work, true.  However, there are differences with the CNO failed experiment.

1. The Boston Newport News train seems like a sure loser for sleepers.

2. AFAIK, the CNO trial had Ellis' sleepers tacked behind regular Amtrak sleepers, so in competition. I am suggesting Ellis operate the only sleepers on an LD train, preferably in the West, under contract with Amtrak. Perhaps less luxurious than in the CNO trial?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 1:53 PM

If the Pullman Rail Journeys Chicago-New Orleans operation did not draw enough passengers, what would make a Newport News-Boston line any better?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:48 PM

Electroliner 1935
If you listened to his talk, you heard him say that the Amtrak provided crew people are friendly and good ambasadors for the train. I don't know whether there was any selection on his part but he's very satisfied with them.

I think the train being up for bid by State of Indiana and Amtrak's rather shaky status has a lot to do with Amtrak employee motivation to keep passengers happy and attract more.   They know if the train goes away, it's either they get sent to another one that travels longer than a few hours or potentially the unemployment line.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:48 PM

Note Ed has the sleepers just sittting around since the end of C-NO service.   At Boston maintenance service is available from either Amtrak or the MBTA.  Emergencies at Washington, should they ever occur, gives the choice of Amtrak, MARC, or Virginia Express.  Still, if one car is scheduled each way, two protection cars probably should be provided, one in Boston and one in Washington.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:45 PM

schlimm

 

 
ROBERT WILLISON

Hard to have s discussion without discussing.

 

 

 

"Run the 3-4 sleeper/pullman cars tacked on the end of LD trains for a small fee paid to Ellis to operate the same way he does the Hoosier State (non-union, I think). He could charge what he wants for tickets and meals. Acquisition and maybe maintenance would remain with Amtrak.  I think it would be less of a loss for Amtrak and the nostalgia buffs could have their paradise, but at market prices.

The details could be worked out.  The purpose is to opt Amtrak out of the hugely expensive, subsidized pullman business on LD trains but to keep them running as transportation with far less expense.  Those who want deluxe sleepers can pay.  Handicapped folks can get reduced fare, if eligible."

The cars would be whatever is available - Superliners and Viewliners.  Ellis would be paid a small fee to operate plus he would be responsible for setting fares and paying his staff and would keep any profits.

Illinois Railway Museum has a LOT of surplus sleepers lined up in their restoration line........I don't think there is a shortage of the old Budd and Pullman Sleepers in this country.    Even appear on Ozark Mountain Rail equipment sales quite a bit.........there are a few sleepers there for sale now.    You can even modify a sleeper and add kitchen or lounge space to it.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:38 PM

The overnight Boston - Newport News sleeper can be test for the Ed Ellis - Amtrak relationship.  If it works out well for both, then one by one, he can take over 1st-class sleeper service on long distance trains that already have sleeper service.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:10 PM

Ed Ellis is paying Amtrak to provide the operating crew (Engineer and Conductor) similar to Via Rail. He provides the onboard passenger personel (which I suspect are not union). If you listened to his talk, you heard him say that the Amtrak provided crew people are friendly and good ambasadors for the train. I don't know whether there was any selection on his part but he's very satisfied with them. Amtrak has problems motivating some of their on board crew and keeping them from taking their discontent out on the passengers. It can be a thankless job. Long hours and too much nit picking sometimes can be stressful. Most Amtrak trips I have taken have had good crews but I have run into some bad situations. There was a crew chief on the now discontinued Chicago to Portland via Denver (connecting to the CZ) train that had a feud with a car attendent and it got nasty. I gave the car attendent my name if she needed a witness for what transpired. Makes the think of some politically incorrect statements which I will suppress here. Crew chief had the power and she was throwing her weight around. Bad vibes for the passengers.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 11:46 AM

I hope ED Ellis gets this suggestion:   He should tack a sleeper or a sleeper with a buffet lounge with meal possibilities, on the back of the overnight Boston - Newport News train.  This train does not have sleeper service at present, althougj it does have Business Class. There should be a market for overnight Boston and Providence  -  Baltimore and Washington and Richmond business travel.   There should be a market for Boston and Providence - Williamsburg tourist travel.  Travel to the Norfolk area would be supplentary, and 1st Class Washington - Williamsburg and Newport News would be an addition, with daytime service.  I thihnk the market is there and the present train without really 1st Class service does not serve it.

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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 10:35 AM

ROBERT WILLISON

Hard to have s discussion without discussing.

 

"Run the 3-4 sleeper/pullman cars tacked on the end of LD trains for a small fee paid to Ellis to operate the same way he does the Hoosier State (non-union, I think). He could charge what he wants for tickets and meals. Acquisition and maybe maintenance would remain with Amtrak.  I think it would be less of a loss for Amtrak and the nostalgia buffs could have their paradise, but at market prices.

The details could be worked out.  The purpose is to opt Amtrak out of the hugely expensive, subsidized pullman business on LD trains but to keep them running as transportation with far less expense.  Those who want deluxe sleepers can pay.  Handicapped folks can get reduced fare, if eligible."

The cars would be whatever is available - Superliners and Viewliners.  Ellis would be paid a small fee to operate plus he would be responsible for setting fares and paying his staff and would keep any profits.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 9:43 AM

Hard to have s discussion without discussing.

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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 9:38 AM

ROBERT WILLISON

Your right, you never said it.  So your suggesting a new operator buy or lease existing equipment. Pay prevailing labor rates. Pay Amtrak maintenance, inspection costs and any related charges. Station costs and a haulage fee?

 

Never said any of the above.  It is very difficult to discuss ideas with someone who fabricates another's statements.  I suggest you re-read my posts on this and offer your own ideas.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:19 AM

Your right, you never said it.  So your suggesting a new operator buy or lease existing equipment. Pay prevailing labor rates. Pay Amtrak maintenance, inspection costs and any related charges. Station costs and a haulage fee?

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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 7:40 AM

ROBERT WILLISON

You suggesting running like Budd equipment, not Amtrak super and view liners

 

No. Where did I say that?   I am suggesting using whatever is available.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 7:02 AM

You suggesting running like Budd equipment, not Amtrak super and view liners

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, September 20, 2016 7:53 PM

ROBERT WILLISON

Why would Ed Ellis want to take over money losing dining cars  and sleepers? Regularly scheduled passenger operations are a Little different then his Pullman co and not like his Hoosier train which he isn't operating for a profit. He paid to run the train. The state of Indiana picks up the losses.

How would the existing labor contracts be delt with. Are Ed excursion trains a union shop? Just wondering. Who would handle maintenance long term and on a daily  basis.  Where would Ed get the capital to purchase a large number of expensive  passenger cars? 

A neat idea but their a underlying reasons why the original Pullman company and privately operated  railroads passenger trains were discontinued.  They were labor intensive,  required huge amounts of capital and lost money regardless how the accounting was done.

 

Run the 3-4 Pullman cars tacked on the end of LD trains for a small fee paid to Ellis to operate the same way he does the Hoosier State (non-union, I think). He could charge what he wants for tickets and meals. Acquisition and maybe maintenance would remain with Amtrak.  I think it would be less of a loss for Amtrak and the nostalgia buffs could have their paradise, but at market prices.

The details could be worked out.  The purpose is to opt Amtrak out of the hugely expensive, subsidized pullman business on LD trains but to keep them running as transportation with far less expense.  Those who want deluxe sleepers can pay.  Handicapped folks can get reduced fare, if eligible.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Tuesday, September 20, 2016 5:51 PM

Why would Ed Ellis want to take over money losing dining cars  and sleepers? Regularly scheduled passenger operations are a Little different then his Pullman co and not like his Hoosier train which he isn't operating for a profit. He paid to run the train. The state of Indiana picks up the losses.

How would the existing labor contracts be delt with. Are Ed excursion trains a union shop? Just wondering. Who would handle maintenance long term and on a daily  basis.  Where would Ed get the capital to purchase a large number of expensive  passenger cars? 

A neat idea but their a underlying reasons why the original Pullman company and privately operated  railroads passenger trains were discontinued.  They were labor intensive,  required huge amounts of capital and lost money regardless how the accounting was done.

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, September 20, 2016 3:58 PM

Here's a wild idea.  Have Amtrak continue running the legacy LD trains (OK, kill the Cardinal), coaches + buffet only, but let Ed Ellis' company provide and manage the first class sleeper and dining car service on the back cars.  

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Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, September 20, 2016 12:36 PM

He comes across as rather sarcastic at times and I think it has to do with frustrations of dealing with the government which as a former small business person I could understand completely.    Lets see Building Occupation Inspection,  Fire Safety Inspection, Department of Health Inspection, Oy the insanity on why they cannot be combined into one.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, September 20, 2016 2:51 AM

Thanks.    Too bad the audio quality isn't better.  Good for some of the closest questioners, very poor for one woman, mediocre for Ed.  Much better would have been a direct feed from the sound system, rather than an in-audience pickup, probably via cell-phone tablet.

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Ed Ellis, Privately run Passenger Train discussion, April 2016 Colorado
Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, September 19, 2016 9:14 PM

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