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What happens to Amtrak ridership when Airlines start to charge for excessive body weight

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What happens to Amtrak ridership when Airlines start to charge for excessive body weight
Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, March 7, 2016 9:11 PM

In a turn of events that I think would be totally awesome for both our Country and Health Care costs.   A group of American Airlines are considering breaching the taboo of embarrassing passengers by charging extra for obesity.    Not sure how this would work but I for one would be a ethusiastic supporter of such a change.....just because of the reduced medical costs that a reduction in obesity would give the average joe in the United States.

At any rate, I would also be curious what such a change would mean for Amtrak ridership.   Would it mean yet another segment of the population be limited to buses and Amtrak or would we not see much of a bump in ridership (ie would most folks choose to lose weight).

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Posted by schlimm on Monday, March 7, 2016 9:16 PM

1. Many of those grossly obese folks would have only the car or bus as options, since many places are not served by Amtrak.

2. I wonder what would happen if Amtrak also charged?   Maybe some crew would have to pay too?

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, March 7, 2016 9:48 PM

CMStPnP

In a turn of events that I think would be totally awesome for both our Country and Health Care costs.   A group of American Airlines are considering breaching the taboo of embarrassing passengers by charging extra for obesity.    Not sure how this would work but I for one would be a ethusiastic supporter of such a change.....just because of the reduced medical costs that a reduction in obesity would give the average joe in the United States.

At any rate, I would also be curious what such a change would mean for Amtrak ridership.   Would it mean yet another segment of the population be limited to buses and Amtrak or would we not see much of a bump in ridership (ie would most folks choose to lose weight).

Weigh out or Cube out?

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Posted by dakotafred on Tuesday, March 8, 2016 5:53 AM

Maybe, finally, a use besides bicycles for all those shiny new baggage cars?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, March 11, 2016 7:36 AM

I don't know what it will do for Amtrak, but a proposal like this one sounds like guaranteed full employment for attorneys.  Any number of discrimination suits will be filed if the airlines decide to act on this proposal.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Dixie Flyer on Friday, March 11, 2016 8:56 AM
In a way the railroads did use to charge for weight. A slumbercoach was a very good deal vs a roomette but it was only suitable for the younger or more agile passenger. How you feel about charging for weight depends on where you fall on the scale so to speak. It bothers me to pay $25 extra charge for a bag that is two pounds overweight and have the person sitting in the seat paying the same fare I do weighing 100 pounds more than I do.
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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Saturday, March 12, 2016 6:23 PM

Overweight people get discriminated against and are not covered by the ADA. Its one group that gets frequently put down without recourse and as a current weight watcher with about another 70 pounds to loose, I can understand the emnity expressed by some as I have had some of the same emotions about overweight people as others. I will always remember a NEW YORKER cartoon with a carny worker on a boardwalk standing next to a scale and a GUESS YOUR WEIGHT sign saying to another person looking down at a big hole under the scale "Fatest g--d--m woman I ever saw" and laughing. And when much younger, remembering siding in the longitudinal seat over the curbside front wheel seat (4 passenger seat) on a transit bus and a lady getting on (having to turn sideways to get through the front door) and sitting down alongside me and taking the three other spaces on the seat. I understand the disconnect between baggage fees and passenger weight but where do you draw the line. Airlines have gone IM not so HO overboard on fees. I love Southwest Airlines for their sane policies and have never had a bad experience on them. And I used slumbercoaches while overweight and had no problems with them. They were superior to riding overnight in a coach seat. 

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Posted by GERALD L MCFARLANE JR on Tuesday, March 15, 2016 8:33 PM

Someone is a little behind on the times here, airlines already make obese people either pay for a second seat, or are charged the same day booking fair for their tickets.  Even Southwest Airlines will charge a person for a second seat, I know, I have had to check someones boarding pass and wondered why they had two of them, until I realized why, and was appalled at the gall, but business is business, even if you find it personally objectionable.

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, March 15, 2016 9:56 PM

GERALD L MCFARLANE JR

Someone is a little behind on the times here, airlines already make obese people either pay for a second seat, or are charged the same day booking fair for their tickets.  Even Southwest Airlines will charge a person for a second seat, I know, I have had to check someones boarding pass and wondered why they had two of them, until I realized why, and was appalled at the gall, but business is business, even if you find it personally objectionable.

 

You realize we aren't talking about a little overweight.  We are referring to grossly obese folks, weighing 300+ pounds.   Try having one of those seated next to yourself on a long flight.

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Posted by dakotafred on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 8:22 PM

I must say, as one who has had at least one beloved relative who was very much overweight, I find the entire discussion cruel, including my stupid, off-the-cuff comment above.

As a rule -- there are exceptions -- the problem on airplanes is not people who are too large but seats that are too small. In this age of large Americans, there are many passengers who are too big for their seats without being obese. Their legs are also too long for the space between seats.

Instead of dissing fat people, how about getting after the airlines for their contempt for the entire, including skinny, traveling public?

In a perverse way, I wouldn't mind another business turndown, just to punish the arrogance of those (temporarily) high-flying SOBs.

Telecommunications will put the airlines out of business one day except for charter and international travel, and I can't wait.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, March 17, 2016 7:02 AM

Everybody wants the seats and service that the various airlines provided to their passengers prior to de-regulation but nobody seems willing to pay the higher fares needed to cover the extra costs and lost capacity.  As a rather simplistic example, if the 3-3 seating in the coach section of a 737 were to be replaced with 3-2 seating, that's a loss of 30+ seats, the lost revenue from those seats has to come from somewhere.  Same thing would happen with increased seat pitch, although not as drastic.

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Posted by dakotafred on Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:03 PM

Yah, and another strategy would be SRO cabins, as proposed (but not implemented, so far) by Ryanair president Michael O'Leary. (Wall Street Journal, March 14, Page B7.) Or seats on the wings.

The real blockbuster would be an airTRAIN, with a second cabin towed by the first. I don't assert ownership, confident somebody is already at work on this idea.

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Posted by PJS1 on Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:22 PM
According to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, a National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 2009–2010, found that:
·         More than 2 in 3 adults are considered to be overweight or obese.
·         More than 1 in 3 adults are considered to be obese.
·         More than 1 in 20 adults are considered to have extreme obesity.
·         About one-third of children and adolescents ages 6 to 19 are considered to be overweight or obese.
·         More than 1 in 6 children and adolescents ages 6 to 19 are considered to be obese.
These figures are in line with statistics reported by the OECD as well as a state and local health organizations.  Weight control is a serious issue for individuals as well as society.

 

At noted the airlines could  increase the size of the seats, leg room etc.  But it would mean fewer seats per airplane, which probably would result in significant fare increases.  I fly Southwest and American 10 to 12 times a year.  On occasion there is a problem with a full figured passenger, but it is rarely an issue.

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, March 17, 2016 6:33 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

Everybody wants the seats and service that the various airlines provided to their passengers prior to de-regulation but nobody seems willing to pay the higher fares needed to cover the extra costs and lost capacity.  

The same is true (with some on here at least) in regard to food services on Amtrak. Folks want the food and service as served on the CZ and other fine trains up through the early 1960s, but Amtrak would probably have to charge $30-50 to cover the above-the-rails costs.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, March 17, 2016 9:07 PM

I would be willing to pay $30-50 for a decent meal on Amtrak in the Dining Car.    Not sure who else would.     As far as the airlines are concerned former American Airlines Chairman Robert Crandall tried a lot when he ran American and even today in retirement he says:  "What passengers want and what they are willing to pay for are two different things".     In the end "passengers want reliable and cheap transportation which runs counter to many of their other wants in regards to seat comfort and food".

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Posted by GERALD L MCFARLANE JR on Friday, March 18, 2016 7:32 AM

schlimm

 

 
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR

Someone is a little behind on the times here, airlines already make obese people either pay for a second seat, or are charged the same day booking fair for their tickets.  Even Southwest Airlines will charge a person for a second seat, I know, I have had to check someones boarding pass and wondered why they had two of them, until I realized why, and was appalled at the gall, but business is business, even if you find it personally objectionable.

 

 

 

You realize we aren't talking about a little overweight.  We are referring to grossly obese folks, weighing 300+ pounds.   Try having one of those seated next to yourself on a long flight.

Perhaps you didn't read my entire original post, and unlike most Americans, size is not something I pay attention to, but I do notice when passengers are grossly obese.  Even someone that is only 40 - 50 lbs overweight is considered obese by the USCDC, so you have to distinguish between obese and grossly obese, there is a difference.  Also, 300+ lbs is not necessarilly obese...there are athletes around that weight, perhaps you meant that they have a large girth of over 50 inches?  That would probably be a better way to explain it, when the persons body is the size of two aircraft seats side by side.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, March 18, 2016 8:46 AM

This is what I had pictured as an obese person myself...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aczPDGC3f8U

 

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Posted by 54light15 on Friday, March 18, 2016 2:01 PM

That "airtrain" idea has already been done, look at the invasion of Nomandy in June of 1944. No stewardesses, though.

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, March 18, 2016 4:54 PM

GERALD L MCFARLANE JR

 

 
schlimm

 

 
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR

Someone is a little behind on the times here, airlines already make obese people either pay for a second seat, or are charged the same day booking fair for their tickets.  Even Southwest Airlines will charge a person for a second seat, I know, I have had to check someones boarding pass and wondered why they had two of them, until I realized why, and was appalled at the gall, but business is business, even if you find it personally objectionable.

 

 

 

You realize we aren't talking about a little overweight.  We are referring to grossly obese folks, weighing 300+ pounds.   Try having one of those seated next to yourself on a long flight.

 

Perhaps you didn't read my entire original post, and unlike most Americans, size is not something I pay attention to, but I do notice when passengers are grossly obese.  Even someone that is only 40 - 50 lbs overweight is considered obese by the USCDC, so you have to distinguish between obese and grossly obese, there is a difference.  Also, 300+ lbs is not necessarilly obese...there are athletes around that weight, perhaps you meant that they have a large girth of over 50 inches?  That would probably be a better way to explain it, when the persons body is the size of two aircraft seats side by side.

 

Most athletes have not used commercial flights as a team for years.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, March 18, 2016 5:53 PM

schlimm
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR
schlimm
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR

Someone is a little behind on the times here, airlines already make obese people either pay for a second seat, or are charged the same day booking fair for their tickets.  Even Southwest Airlines will charge a person for a second seat, I know, I have had to check someones boarding pass and wondered why they had two of them, until I realized why, and was appalled at the gall, but business is business, even if you find it personally objectionable.

You realize we aren't talking about a little overweight.  We are referring to grossly obese folks, weighing 300+ pounds.   Try having one of those seated next to yourself on a long flight.

Perhaps you didn't read my entire original post, and unlike most Americans, size is not something I pay attention to, but I do notice when passengers are grossly obese.  Even someone that is only 40 - 50 lbs overweight is considered obese by the USCDC, so you have to distinguish between obese and grossly obese, there is a difference.  Also, 300+ lbs is not necessarilly obese...there are athletes around that weight, perhaps you meant that they have a large girth of over 50 inches?  That would probably be a better way to explain it, when the persons body is the size of two aircraft seats side by side.

Most athletes have not used commercial flights as a team for years.

As individuals, they still move about the country.

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, March 18, 2016 6:12 PM

Ditto with some circus personnel.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, March 18, 2016 7:32 PM

schlimm

Ditto with some circus personnel.

The elephants are being retired from Ringling Bros.

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Posted by Enzoamps on Saturday, March 19, 2016 1:18 AM

Airlines charge extra for passengers who are too WIDE, but plenty of very overweight folks still fit into the seats.  If too big around, the airline will charge for a belt extender.  I used to regularly fly some small commuter airlines, and they weighed every passenger as well as the luggage and carry on stuff, and seated you by weight.  The passenger weight was a significant portion of the plane weight and it had to be balanced.  Lifting the extra weight in an airplace costs more fuel.

Railroad trains are not materially affected by an extra hundred pounds.  Charging extra for obese riders is pointless.

As to improving the national health, give me a break.  Obese people are totally aware they are fat already, charging them extra for it will not change their lifestyle, unless flying is ALL they do all day.  When the airlines started tacking on fees for everything from pretzels to caryons to window seats, did we stop flying?  Seems to me the planes are still full.  I think such an improve America plan is mostly self-righteous rationalizing.

 

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, March 19, 2016 8:14 AM

BaltACD

 

 
schlimm

Ditto with some circus personnel.

 

The elephants are being retired from Ringling Bros.

 

Wait for the fat lady to sing.

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, March 19, 2016 9:52 AM
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Posted by ndbprr on Saturday, March 26, 2016 6:42 PM
Since I am 6'5" are they also going to charge me because of inadequate leg room or if the idiot in front of me can't recline his seat?
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Posted by dakotafred on Sunday, March 27, 2016 8:00 PM

ndbprr
Since I am 6'5" are they also going to charge me because of inadequate leg room or if the idiot in front of me can't recline his seat?
 

They're already treating you as a freak, with their insulting seat sizes and configurations. Why not withdraw your patronage?

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, March 28, 2016 10:16 AM

I'm 6-5 as well but very fortunate to live next to the unsinkable aircraft carrier of DFW Airport.    I can get cheap First Class tickets on American Airlines via Internet Purchase going to just about any major city in the United States.     I no longer have the need to fly coach because coach with it's new fees and hassle is not that far off from First Class domestic fares any longer.

So I am still happy no matter what they ultimately do.    Though I still think we all pay for obeese people in longer waiting lines at the Doctors Office and increased health costs in the United States not to mention the lost productivity if they are of working age as they need from 2-3 hours more sleep a day than in-range weight folks.   Overall they are a drag on our GDP.

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Posted by schlimm on Monday, March 28, 2016 1:01 PM

Medically, obesity is defined as a BMI >30.  Among industrialized nations, the US is #1, with 33.9% obese (35% of adults).  Southern states tend to have the highest rates: #1 MS; #2 WV; #3 AL; #4 SC;#5 KY; #6 LA; #7 TX; #8 MI; #9 TN; #10 MO, in other words 9 of the 51 states +DC are Southern or border states.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, March 28, 2016 1:39 PM

schlimm

Medically, obesity is defined as a BMI >30.  Among industrialized nations, the US is #1, with 33.9% obese (35% of adults).  Southern states tend to have the highest rates: #1 MS; #2 WV; #3 AL; #4 SC;#5 KY; #6 LA; #7 TX; #8 MI; #9 TN; #10 MO, in other words 9 of the 51 states +DC are Southern or border states.

 

51 States? Smile

Johnny

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