Trains.com

Lake Shore new routing

8669 views
44 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, September 23, 2015 8:31 PM

ROBERT WILLISON

I might be wrong but I thought a portion of the old prr main line west of Pittsburgh was either down graded or abandoned. This was part of the reason why the Broadway limited was  discontinued.

Amtrak original choice for serving Chicago to new York city was train 48-49, the Broadway limited. All service west of Buffalo on the PC was discontinued. The  lake shore limited was revived as a state supported service by Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana, late in 1971.

 

Yes, the PRR line to Chicago was downgraded by Conrail, especially west of Alliance, Ohio. I think that it was in 1987 that I noticed that the signals had been taken out of service on one side of the track from some point in Ohio and across Indiana. In 1989, the Broadway Limited was running through Cleveland and then through Pittsburgh via Alliance, Ohio, on its way to New York City. And, the Capitol Limited now uses the same routing west of a point a little bit east of Pittsburgh.

It seems to me that the only possibility in the near future for through New York City-Pittsburgh-Chicago service is coupling/uncoupling a New York car to the Capitol Limited in Pittsburgh (which has been discussed here in times past).

Johnny

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, September 23, 2015 6:24 PM

First lets buy enough equipment for the LSL so that it can meet any demand.  Then worry about reroutes of some parts of the train .

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 1,180 posts
Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Wednesday, September 23, 2015 5:56 PM

I might be wrong but I thought a portion of the old prr main line west of Pittsburgh was either down graded or abandoned. This was part of the reason why the Broadway limited was  discontinued.

Amtrak original choice for serving Chicago to new York city was train 48-49, the Broadway limited. All service west of Buffalo on the PC was discontinued. The  lake shore limited was revived as a state supported service by Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana, late in 1971.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, September 23, 2015 2:58 PM
You mean reviving the Broadway, which is a good idea.  But Boston business is not enough to support a Lake Shore, and that train does a considerable NY-Buffalo business anyway.You mean reviving the Broadway, which is a good idea.  But Boston business is not enough to support a Lake Shore, and that train does a considerable NY-Buffalo business anyway.
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: NS Main Line at MP12 Blairsville,Pa
  • 830 posts
Posted by conrailman on Tuesday, September 22, 2015 11:47 PM

How about one New York City lake shore limited go from New York to Philly then west to Harrisburg, Pa to Chicago, IL on the Broadway limited route?? and the Boston train on the other route?? 

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 1,180 posts
Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Sunday, September 20, 2015 3:26 PM

With the exception of turning the equipment a bit quicker, how is saving a potential few hours  help Amtrak or its passenger? Amtrak would be losing millions of potential customers on the american side with out benefiting any on the Canadian side. 

Very few long distance passengers factor in time as a major  element in their planning.

  • Member since
    September 2011
  • 6,449 posts
Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, September 18, 2015 10:21 PM

Why would Amtrak switch from using their present line, which is provided by railroads at a favorable rate to ATK, to a Canadian line where they would have to negotiate a market rate.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 1,530 posts
Posted by NKP guy on Friday, September 18, 2015 9:09 PM

With all due respect to Deggesty, I don't think that's at all what dakotafred meant.  Not at all.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Friday, September 18, 2015 8:19 PM

dakotafred

The name of the railroad, for heaven's sake, is Amtrak ... the 'Am' standing for 'American.' This idea is wrong side of the border. 

 

But, the rerouted train would not be serving Canada; it would serve cities in the United States only.

By your reasoning, Amtrak should not serve Montreal, Vancouver, or Niagara Falls, Ontario?

Johnny

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • 189 posts
Posted by northeaster on Friday, September 18, 2015 8:14 PM

As was so well put, it is not the time, it is the money which determines most everything. But, do not stop dreaming and proposing new ways of looking at situations because only with open minds comes change.

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 1,751 posts
Posted by dakotafred on Friday, September 18, 2015 8:14 PM

The name of the railroad, for heaven's sake, is Amtrak ... the 'Am' standing for 'American.' This idea is wrong side of the border. 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, September 18, 2015 7:07 PM

Railfans have to realize that everything railroads, even Amtrak, do is for their economic benefit.  If it isn't going to add to the bottom line the idea is dead on conception.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 1,180 posts
Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Friday, September 18, 2015 6:27 PM

Sound like the idea is dead on arrival. There would be a major loss of ridership. I doubt crossing two international borders would ever save any time.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 1,530 posts
Posted by NKP guy on Friday, September 18, 2015 5:55 PM

OK.  Time to take another deep breath.

Do you really think, zaleski, that Amtrak is going to run a train to Chicago from both Boston & NYC that bypasses Erie, all of Ohio, and a good part of Indiana, just to save time?  Is it possible that you believe the Lake Shore Limited runs to get passengers from point A to point B in the least amount of time?  Then why not simply "seal the train" as it leaves Penn Station and run it non-stop to Chicago?  Can you think of a reason not to do that?  So can I.  For that matter, why not fly passengers to NYC/Boston to Chicago?  Two hours versus 20?  Why not?

By the way, how much support for Amtrak in Congress will Ontario's MP's be able to offer?

"Sealed trains" bring to my mind, anyway, images of Lenin & his Bolsheviks on their way to the Finland Station.  

Bottom line:  Ain't never gonna happen.  Ever.  Period.

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • 114 posts
Posted by ghCBNS on Friday, September 18, 2015 5:46 PM
The route that train would have to use today is neither the same route the fast New York Central limiteds ran on 50 years ago nor the same route Amtrak used across southern Ontario in the 1970s between Detroit and Buffalo. That track is now mostly abandoned.
A train today would probably follow VIA’s (CN) route from Windsor (CP to Chathamfrom the tunnel).....onto Bayview (Hamilton) then CN to Niagara Falls (the Maple Leaf’s route)
IMHO.....it won’t happen. This is the reverse of what VIA’s Atlantic did crossing Maine. It was sealed while in the US which took years to negotiate....and all pre 9-11.  
  • Member since
    March 2010
  • 19 posts
Lake Shore new routing
Posted by zaleski on Friday, September 18, 2015 11:44 AM

There has been some discussion about extending the new faster Wolverine service to major Canadian points: Toronto and southern Ontario.  Several problems have come up: delay in getting through customs; Amtrak Michigan trains end up in Pontiac and not close to the CPR Windsor tunnel. 

The Lake Shore Limited would be sent over the hign speed line to Detroit, through the tunnel to Windsor, and non-stop to Buffalo.  The train would cross Ontario sealed without any passengers/crew on or off the train.  This ought to remove the need for custom inspection.

The new routing would cut running time Chicago to Buffalo to 8 or 9 hours or less.  It would open up large centers of population in Michigan for train service.  Finally it takes the train off conjested lines in Indiana and Ohio.  The train could actually run on schedule! Some cities would have lesser service. They would, however,  continue to have the Capitol Limited. Unknown to me is if the Canadian government and railroads would allow the train to operate and at speeds necessary for a 4 or 5 hour schedule across southern Ontario.    The new routing would require a station close to the tunnel in Detroit. 

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy