Last Friday I rode the Pennsylvanian from New York City to Greensburg. It was a good experience.
I had a business class seat. It was comfortable and, equally important, the car was clean as a whistle when I boarded the train at PennsylvaniaStation. We departed right on time. And so as to not keep anyone in suspense, we arrived in Greensburg on time.
The boarding process at Pennsylvania Station is a bit strained. People begin to line up near the annunciator board about 30 minutes before the track is posted, which is usually 10 - 15 minutes before the scheduled departure time. Then there is a mad rush, at least on the part of the coach passengers, to get to the gate and on to the train. Amtrak could improve this process by adopting a procdure similar to the one used by Southwest Airlines - passengers get a boarding pass by group and board in groups.
From New York to Philadephia passengers ride backwards. No big deal for me, but several people found it a bit disconcerting. The reason is because when the train arrived at 30th Street Station, the electric locomotive is taken off the front of the train, i.e. as defined when it leaves NYC, and a P42 is put on the back of the train, which then becomes the front of the train.
The crew on the train was pleasant, helpful, and courteous. The conductor went out of her way in Lancaster to help several older folks off the train. Equally cheerful and helpful was the cafe car attendant. He greeted everyone who came into the car, at least on the three occasions that I was there, and served them promptly. For the most part he is on his feet from New York to Pittsburgh. He must be tired when he gets to Pittsburgh.
I had a turkey and cheese sandwich. It was very good. It was better than anything that I have gotten in the full service dining cars on the Texas Eagle and Sunset Limited. I also had a small bottle of red wine. The sandwich was $8.50 and the wine was $6.50.
Having been reared in Altoona, one of the best parts of the trip was going around the Horseshoe Curve. It was a thrill when I was young, and it is still a thrill.
The ride was smooth as glass most of the way. The track west of Harrisburg, which is owned and maintained by the Norfolk Southern, appears to be in top notch condition.
Glad you enjoyed your trip, and even gladder to hear it's not all "doom and gloom" out there in Amtrak land.
I have had many pleasant Amtrak trips over the years. The Pennsylvanian is one of my favorites. The problem is, like with anything else, you only hear about the bad from the press, not the good. The one person stabbed on the NYC Subway makes a much better story than the millions that ride safely each day. Thank you for a positive story. And I agree with you about Horseshoe Curve. Long live the PRR!
Thanks for the report. Rode the train many times in the 80's and early 90's, and always enjoyed the ride.
Sounds like a nice trip. How was the ridership?
rfpjohn Sounds like a nice trip. How was the ridership?
The load factor in the business car appeared to be between 70 and 80 per cent. A substantial number of people were going to Western Pennsylvania (Latrobe, Greensburg, Pittsburgh). They had just returned from a cruise.
West of Harrisburg the load factor appeared to drop to 40 to 50 per cent. In FY13 the average load factor on the Pennsylvanian was 64.7 per cent.
I saw only three people get off in Altoona. As noted I grew-up in Altoona. During my last year in high school (1957) there were 38 passenger train movements a day through Altoona. As I remember it hundreds of people from or near Altoona rode the trains daily. Now there is 1 or 2 depending on whether you count the Pennsylvanian as one train or as one west and one east.
One of my most pleasant trips in recent years was aboard the Capitol Limited in 2008. I rode westbound on Thanksgiving Day. Ridership was low, since travel on the holiday itself is usually light. The dining car served fresh carved turkey breast, mashed potatoes and all the fixings. A great meal on a spcial day. After a nice night in my sleeper, I spent Black Friday "shopping" for trains at the Homewood, IL railfan park and getting together for a bit with a friend who lives outside Chicago. I reboarded the Capitol that night for the trip home and gave up my sleeper at Pittsburgh to transfer to the Pennsylvanian for the ride over the former PRR and Horseshoe Curve in Business Class back to NJ. A fabulous way to spend a long holiday weekend.
Sounds like a great trip. Imagine the Pennsylvanian was hanging on by a thread until the govern Corbett finally cough up pa portion of the trains expenses.
ROBERT WILLISON Sounds like a great trip. Imagine the Pennsylvanian was hanging on by a thread until the govern Corbett finally cough up pa portion of the trains expenses.
According to my brother, who lives in Pittsburgh, the Pennsylvania was on the chopping block, but the Pennsylvania legislature came to the rescue in the nick of time. The annual cost to the state is approximately $5.5 million. The train lost $5.2 million in FY13 before depreciation and interest.
Unmentioned in my previous post is the scenery along the way. East bound or west bound, it is great. In addition to the Horseshoe Curve, one can view the Conemaugh Valley, Logan Valley, Juniata Valley - the train runs along the Juniata River for a considerable portion of the trip, and the Amish Country - not an official designation - near Lancaster. I find central and western Pennsylvania to be every bit as beautiful as Colorado, etc. This is especially true in the fall when the foliage is changing or has changed.
I agree. As beautiful as Colorado, but not as dramatic.
"The boarding process at Pennsylvania Station is a bit strained"
I don't believe the Pennsylvanian's boarding process differes from any other Amtrak train.
Patrick Boylan
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daveklepper I agree. As beautiful as Colorado, but not as dramatic.
One other aspect of the scenery that I failed to mention is the view on the right hand side of the westbound train of the Susquehanna River as the trains crosses the Rockville Bridge.
gardendance "The boarding process at Pennsylvania Station is a bit strained" I don't believe the Pennsylvanian's boarding process differes from any other Amtrak train.
You are essentially correct. At the major stations and/or terminals that I have used, i.e. Pennsylvania Station, 30th Street Station, Union Station in Washington, Los Angeles Station, etc. people begin to line-up approximately 30 minutes before train time, unless they are sleeping car passengers, in which case they know what space they will occupy. It is a scramble for coach passengers.
At stations like San Antonio, Austin, Temple, etc. people usually line-up on or near the platform, whereas at the large stations mentioned above they usually line-up in the waiting area. At San Antonio passengers are forced to line-up outside of the station. The boarding process is supposed to begin at 6:45 a.m., but I have seen it put off until just five minutes before the Texas Eagle's 7:00 a.m. departure time. I have seen as many as 25 to 30 passengers in line as early as 6:30 a.m. And if the connecting cars off of the Sunset Limited are running late, the situation becomes intolerable, since there is frequently not enough room in the station to accommodate the passengers for the Texas Eagle and the eastbound Sunset Limited. Not a good outcome if it is cold and raining.
I recommended several years ago to Amtrak's senior management that they should adopt a reserved seating system. They pushed back saying in so many words that it was too complicated. I found that hard to understand, especially in the computer age, since I remember assigned seats on the Atlantic Coast Line and Seaboard Airline trains that I rode to Florida in the 50s.
At its major terminals and stations, at least, Amtrak could adopt a system similar to the one used by Southwest Airlines. Passengers on Southwest get a boarding pass by group, i.e. A, B, or C. You can get an Early Bird Pass by paying an additional $12.50 per ticket. That practically guarantees you an A Boarding Pass, which means that you don't have to worry about the dreaded middle seat. Or you can pay the business select fare. In either case the computer assigns 36 hours prior to flight time an A Boarding Pass to business select passengers and then to the Early Bird passengers. If the flight is a connecting flight, with a lot of business select fare passengers, it is possible for an Early Bird purchaser to miss out on an A Boarding Pass, in which case he or she is placed at the head of the B Group, but it is rare. It has never happened to me, and I fly Southwest six or seven times a year.
The Southwest Airlines boarding system is not perfect. But since implementation it has cut down on the hassle that was so much a part of the Southwest experience. Note: I have been an enthusiastic Southwest customer since the days when it had only three airplanes.
Fortunately, if the Governor says black, the PA Legislature (same party-Repub) says white. Corbett is going to be history, anyhow, so the next chapter is yet to be written.
Be that as it may, PA has many older folks who don't care to brave the Turnpike.
With Corbett gone maybe we can see an empire service train extended to Erie or even better to Cleveland. The nyc-erie- cle corridor needs daylight service.
ROBERT WILLISON With Corbett gone maybe we can see an empire service train extended to Erie or even better to Cleveland. The nyc-erie- cle corridor needs daylight service.
What is Governor Corbett's view re: expanding passenger rail? What was his stance on finding money for the Pennsylvanian, which costs the PA taxpayers approximately $5.5 million per year?
Corbett's views may be irrelevant. Fitch, S&P, and Moody's have down graded their ratings of Pennsylvania's debt. According to Fitch, a structurally unbalanced budget, depleted reserves, and rapidly growing public pension benefits were the major reasons for the ratings down grade.
Approxmately seven per cent of PA's budget is being covered by one-offs, i.e. federal monies for an expanded Medicaid Program, and will not be a continuing source of funds. PA's debt burden and unfunded pension obligations, according to Fitch, totals 9.8 per cent of the state's 2013 personal income, which places it above the national average.
I rode the Pennsylvanian many times while employed by PC. Its evening departure from 30th Street (in the early 70s) and early morning arrival in Pittsburgh (a few steps and an elevator ride to my office) made it very convenient for returning from meetings in Philadelphia. My pass allowed me a roomette and familiarity with the porter allowed me a few minutes extra sleep. The extra sleep was needed after staying up half the night learning all kinds of things from the crew's war stories.
ChuckAllen, TX
The first year state of Pennsylvania support for the Pennsylvanian actually turned out to be $3.8 million. $5.5 million was the initial number mentioned by the state and Amtrak. Since the Pennsylvanian's ridership and ticket revenues were up 5.9% and 9.7%, respectively, in FY2014 (ended 9/30/14) over FY2013, the state subsidy should be less than $3.8 million for FY2015. Western Pennsylvanians for Passenger Rail (WPPR) played an important grass-roots role in maintaining the train. A report developed by Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership, in collaboration with WPPR, that reviews the estimated costs and benefits of operating three daily Pittsburgh-New York trains over the route of the Pennsylvanian is posted on WPPR's website, www.wpprrail.org.
dls0706 The first year state of Pennsylvania support for the Pennsylvanian actually turned out to be $3.8 million. $5.5 million was the initial number mentioned by the state and Amtrak. Since the Pennsylvanian's ridership and ticket revenues were up 5.9% and 9.7%, respectively, in FY2014 (ended 9/30/14) over FY2013, the state subsidy should be less than $3.8 million for FY2015. Western Pennsylvanians for Passenger Rail (WPPR) played an important grass-roots role in maintaining the train. A report developed by Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership, in collaboration with WPPR, that reviews the estimated costs and benefits of operating three daily Pittsburgh-New York trains over the route of the Pennsylvanian is posted on WPPR's website, www.wpprrail.org.
The Pennsylvanian lost $5.2 million in FY13 before depreciation, interest, and miscellaneous charges according to Amtrak's audited financial data.
Since Amtrak has not released audited financial information for FY14, I presume your numbers are taken from press releases or another source.
Whether it cost PA $5.2 million or $3.8 million, a state that is facing some of the cost constraints as the Commonwealth needs to be mindful of how it spends it taxpayer dollars.
My response was to a previous post suggesting, by implication, that PA should fund improved service between Buffalo, Erie, and Cleveland. Just where would it get the money was the gist of my point.
Perhaps from the latest 10 cent gas tax which is suppose to fund road repairs, transit issue and other transportation issue. Pennsylvania already funds the rail service. Perhaps an investment in nw pa would help stimulate the local economy instead of all our tax dollars for transportation going down state.
PennDOT is accepting comments through December 15 on the draft of the PA Long Range Transportation Plan. Part of the plan addresses passenger rail (pages 9, 41-42). Links to both the plan homepage where you can add comments and the plan document itself are listed below. They are also posted on the WPPR website (www.wpprrail.org). The plan's summary section noted the large number of initial comments that called for more service along the Pennsylvanian route. This is another opportunity to again voice your desire for additional trains.
http://www.paontrack.com/
http://www.paontrack.com/images/documents/DRAFT_PA_LRTP.pdf
One of my fav memories of travel with parents was going around Horseshoe Curve on the Pennsy on our way to New York City. I can remember the conductor coming through the car to announce it and people moving over to vacant seats to watch us go around. Glad to hear it's still exciting.
one of the most useful pieces of advise given on the Forum. Should work for other trains as well.
daveklepper one of the most useful pieces of advise given on the Forum. Should work for other trains as well.
In addition to self-service handcarts in a number of Amtrak stations, you can count on uniformed Red Caps to provide free baggage-handling assistance at many major stations. We recommend that you accept assistance from only uniformed Red Cap agents. All baggage handled by Red Cap is protected by a claim check.
The Red Cap assistance service is offered at the following major stations for free:
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
We always use a red cap in Philadelphia no matter how
much luggage we have. It's worth it to beat the crowd.
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