Trains.com

Viewliners ugly? What do you think about Amfleet-Metorliner? Suuperliner? New Conn-Metro-North M8?

9867 views
37 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 20, 2014 3:21 PM

Funding the next generation of bi-level long distance cars could be a real challenge.

Amtrak ordered 479 Superliner cars in two tranches.  The first batch was delivered in or near 1975, with the second batch being delivered during 1993-94.  According to Wikipeda, which pulled the information from Train Web, as well as several other sources, the first order cost $241 million; the second was for $340 million.

Using the average annual increased in the Producer Price Index for railway equipment as a guide, the cost to replace the current Superliner cars today, using original price data adjusted for inflation, would be approximately $2.4 billion. Of course, this says nothing about the challenge of finding a builder, different designs, better functionality, etc., and averages can be deceptive, but it suggests a challenge for Amtrak's long distance trains.

Would the federal government being willing to write a check, if not all at once, in increments to fund new bi-level equipment for some of its long distance trains?

I realize that this goes beyond the scope of the presenting issue, but replacement was mentioned in one or two posts and, therefore, is fair game.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, June 20, 2014 2:52 PM

Viewliners, look okay and would probably look pretty good in a solid train.  Mixed with Amfleet and old Budd equipment does not make for a great looking train.

 

Solid train of Viewliners is a long way in the future unless Amtrak does a publicity photo.

Although many of us do not like its lines they seem to be built to provide the maximum room inside for passengers.  Along with good interior decoration that IMO is more important to attract passengers.

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 11,971 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Friday, June 20, 2014 2:00 PM

The streamliner era was the epitome.  If this Nat'l Ltd had a tail car, it would be prefect.

The Metroliner/Amfleet design is not bad looking.  A solid consist with an E60 or AEM7 pulling looked pretty good.  The "jetliner" styling was cool in it's day, but I think that day has passed.  I'd much rather have larger windows and get back the space lost to the curved sides.  

Viewliners, look okay and would probably look pretty good in a solid train.  Mixed with Amfleet and old Budd equipment does not make for a great looking train.

I'm not a huge fan of Cesar Vergara.  The NJT locos and M8s are interesting, but not great looking.  I'm not a big fan of his Cadillac styling, either.

I think the paint scheme might be more important than the equipment shape.  I'm a fan of schemes that accentuate the length of the train. Stripes along the windows or sill.   If the scheme can blend into the locomotive, even better.  The Cascades do this rather well.  The original Amtrak schemes were good.  The NYC lightning stripes scheme, too.  

I'm not a fan of  the Amtrak P42 "Shamu" scheme.  The locomotive has good lines and the scheme ignores them.  Ditto for the Acela "blobs".  (BTW, if we could lose the "humps" on the Acela cars, that would help them look quite a bit better) 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, June 20, 2014 1:54 PM

The Horizon cars are an outgrowth of the basic design developed for NJDOT when it re-equipped the EL diesel-powered suburban lines in 1971.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 11,971 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Friday, June 20, 2014 1:40 PM

CMStPnP
Amfleet......was designed for high speed...hence the small windows

Actually, was designed to make a smaller target for rock throwers.  In the 70s, you could pretty much count on every train getting "rocked" in Connecticut. 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, June 20, 2014 1:31 PM

Well in regards to the single level equipment, we now have 4 differently shaped exterior car shells, thats going to look like absolute crap when pulled within the same consist combined together.    

1.  Legacy (pre-1971)......Budd and Pullman.

2.  Amfleet......was designed for high speed...hence the small windows.     This design is also pre-1971 as it was the Pennsylvania that had it designed first from Budd

3. Horizon.......have to say that this design probably is also a pre-1971 design in that some of the later Union Pacific Passenger Cars purchased look pretty similar to this design.

4. Viewliner.

How did we end up here?   Lack of Amtrak standardization with specs and trying to always go with the lowest bidder.     We now have an expansion of use of the ugly viewliner shells because it's cheaper for Amtrak to continue this experiment than it would be to re-engineer the inside of the former Pullman and Budd shell cars.

On the Western Long DIstance Front:

1.  Appears Amtrak has standardized on the Superliner.    I am OK with that design but when it comes to rebuliding  it, there really has not been much of an effort on Amtraks behalf for attempting to make the design better, in fact their only attempt in the area of Cafe Cars.........IMO has made the former Dining Cars worse in layout.      What is the design to be used for the next generation Long Distance bi-level?

How about at least widening the central staircase just a little?  Maybe?    Or making the now central serving area in the Sleeping Cars a little more functional to allow for snacks between meals?  maybe?

2.  Surfliner Cars - No argument with these for short distance travel.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 20, 2014 9:15 AM

The Superliners, especially the lounge cars, are appealing to this Texan.  I also like the looks of the Acela equipment.  And I found the Cascades equipment to be appealing, although it does not mesh that well with the locomotives, or at least it did not when I rode the Cascades last year.

On the inside, however, the Superliner coaches, at least, tend to be a bit dark and drab.  The windows are relatively small and, therefore, don't admit much outside light.  This is especially true if a significant number of passengers have pulled the window curtains.  

The fabrics on the seats, floor, and sides (partial) of the Eagle coaches, at least, are faded blues and browns, neither of which are very appealing.  If anything they make the interior of the car look even darker than would be the case if lighter, brighter fabrics were used.  

The interiors of the Superliner coaches, at least, appear to have been designed by the U.S. General Services Administration.  They don't show much imagination.

The Superliner lounge cars on the other hand are bright and cheerful on the inside. This is especially true for the lounge cars that have been refurbished. The dark browns and oranges of the earlier versions have given way to pastel blue, magenta, and light gray. They could look even better if Amtrak used more imaginative color schemes.  

The interiors of the Superliner dinning cars and sleepers are OK, although both of them suffer from the same lighting problems found in the coaches.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Viewliners ugly? What do you think about Amfleet-Metorliner? Suuperliner? New Conn-Metro-North M8?
Posted by daveklepper on Friday, June 20, 2014 7:50 AM

Opinions solicited

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy