The last bit I read about this seemed to be optimistic but I never saw the final report. No clue where this stands.
http://wwno.org/post/amtrak-set-finish-study-service-between-dfw-and-shreveportbossier
I found this from December 2013 saying it was in LA hands now and they want to do a study and that Texas still has not finalized their study. Also indicates that DART is interested as well and I would think longer distance trains would be out of DART's jurisdiction but maybe not.
++++http://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/local/2013/12/19/east-texas-northwest-louisiana-efforts-seek-to-bridge-amtrak-passenger-rail-gap/4123819/
I was waiting to hear or read about this locally before responding, but so far nary a peep. Studying seems to be a lucrative business here in La. For as long as I can remember it seems that every few years I hear of another study on instituting passenger rail between New Orleans and Baton Rouge, but nothing happens till the next time someone thinks about it. I won't get into discussing state politics, but I'm not holding my breath on this one.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Paul of Covington I was waiting to hear or read about this locally before responding, but so far nary a peep. Studying seems to be a lucrative business here in La. For as long as I can remember it seems that every few years I hear of another study on instituting passenger rail between New Orleans and Baton Rouge, but nothing happens till the next time someone thinks about it. I won't get into discussing state politics, but I'm not holding my breath on this one.
Yes from what I understand the issue of course in Louisiana is funding. I have heard alternating scenarios here, state might fund if the casinos kick in some money. Casinos are doubtful it will be of benefit but only want to try for a trial period. So it reads to me like not all the parties in the state are on board but the state is more than willing to take the study money. On the Texas side I think the support is stronger. I think the better plan would be a through train via Meridian, MS to Atlanta, GA (possibly an overnight, sleeper train). I think that would have better ridership and equipment utilization.
An Atlanta destination also would hot Altanta, Birmingham, Dallas-Ft Worth with just a one day routing which isn't bad population wise. If you made it largely an overnight train departing Atlanta in the late evening and say arriving in Dallas around 10:30 a.m...........Shreveport 6:30 a.m. (guessing it would only be 4 hours). Then Depart Dallas 6:30 p.m. and arrive in Shreveport at 10:30 p.m. on the way back to Atlanta................I don't think it might have decent ridership with business people..
CMStPnP Paul of Covington I was waiting to hear or read about this locally before responding, but so far nary a peep. Studying seems to be a lucrative business here in La. For as long as I can remember it seems that every few years I hear of another study on instituting passenger rail between New Orleans and Baton Rouge, but nothing happens till the next time someone thinks about it. I won't get into discussing state politics, but I'm not holding my breath on this one. Yes from what I understand the issue of course in Louisiana is funding. I have heard alternating scenarios here, state might fund if the casinos kick in some money. Casinos are doubtful it will be of benefit but only want to try for a trial period. So it reads to me like not all the parties in the state are on board but the state is more than willing to take the study money. On the Texas side I think the support is stronger. I think the better plan would be a through train via Meridian, MS to Atlanta, GA (possibly an overnight, sleeper train). I think that would have better ridership and equipment utilization. An Atlanta destination also would hot Altanta, Birmingham, Dallas-Ft Worth with just a one day routing which isn't bad population wise. If you made it largely an overnight train departing Atlanta in the late evening and say arriving in Dallas around 10:30 a.m...........Shreveport 6:30 a.m. (guessing it would only be 4 hours). Then Depart Dallas 6:30 p.m. and arrive in Shreveport at 10:30 p.m. on the way back to Atlanta................I don't think it might have decent ridership with business people..
It would have to be cars on the Crescent, cut off at Meridian. A day train from Atlanta to Dallas would be moderately attractive and would help the fortunes of the Crescent's under-utilized ATL - NOL route portion. You might not have to add a single car or locomotive- just cut off two or three coaches and the lounge and use one of the two P42s for the rest of the trip.
Don't know if the Meridian Speedway is up to the task, though. Might have to throw some $$ at it.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
I suspect that people in Texas certainly would totally welcome DFW-Shreveport (and beyond) passenger service. However, don't expect us to get too excited about it. There is much more interest in extending the Heartland Flyer south to San Antonio along the extremely crowded I-35 corridor, or creating service between DFW and Houston, where there is presently, and shamefully, no pasenger service at all. For that matter, daily passenger train service of any kind to Houston, the fourth largest city in the United States, would be a much higher priority also.
South Texas I suspect that people in Texas certainly would totally welcome DFW-Shreveport (and beyond) passenger service. However, don't expect us to get too excited about it. There is much more interest in extending the Heartland Flyer south to San Antonio along the extremely crowded I-35 corridor, or creating service between DFW and Houston, where there is presently, and shamefully, no pasenger service at all. For that matter, daily passenger train service of any kind to Houston, the fourth largest city in the United States, would be a much higher priority also.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Service from Houston to Dallas and then to Ft. Worth is being built by a private rail company. Google "Texas Central Railway". Before people on here pooh-pooh the idea, the state is taking it seriously. In fact, the private company has stated it will only build Houston to Dallas (station would be at the site of the former convention center and East of Union Station a little bit in Dallas). The state is funding the study for Dallas to Ft. Worth as well as exploring funding packages to connect Ft. Worth to the station in Dallas via a HSR line that would roughly parallel the UP between both cities. Anyways, we have to wait probably another two years before we can say the project is BS because in about two years they have to obtain funding for construction and they have stated repeatedly to the media and the public that funding is not going to be a problem for them that they have a financial commitment that is iron clad and backed by the Japanese.
So we'll see but that is where the Houston to Dallas passenger service lies right now.
As for extending the Heartland flyer to San Antonio........good luck with that pipe dream. From what I heard it will eventually be extended to possibly Kansas City with a Heartland Flyer North from OK City. Lots of interest there on the part of Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma. Weak link is Oklahoma for funding, also they are not sure if it should be two trains or just an extension of the one. Extending it South to San Antonio is a problem because of the train congestion on the line #1, #2 is that line is pretty slow and on the list for the state of Texas to relocate it West (which Texas does not have the money for yet). At any rate you would need to relocate the freight off that line I believe first before anymore passenger service could be accomodated on it without adding a lot of passing sidings and other infrastructure (to keep the timetable reasonably sane). The Texas Eagle timetable from Ft. Worth to San Antonio can easily be bested by car and is very, very slow.
CMStPnP South Texas I suspect that people in Texas certainly would totally welcome DFW-Shreveport (and beyond) passenger service. However, don't expect us to get too excited about it. There is much more interest in extending the Heartland Flyer south to San Antonio along the extremely crowded I-35 corridor, or creating service between DFW and Houston, where there is presently, and shamefully, no pasenger service at all. For that matter, daily passenger train service of any kind to Houston, the fourth largest city in the United States, would be a much higher priority also. Service from Houston to Dallas and then to Ft. Worth is being built by a private rail company. Google "Texas Central Railway". Before people on here pooh-pooh the idea, the state is taking it seriously. In fact, the private company has stated it will only build Houston to Dallas (station would be at the site of the former convention center and East of Union Station a little bit in Dallas). The state is funding the study for Dallas to Ft. Worth as well as exploring funding packages to connect Ft. Worth to the station in Dallas via a HSR line that would roughly parallel the UP between both cities. Anyways, we have to wait probably another two years before we can say the project is BS because in about two years they have to obtain funding for construction and they have stated repeatedly to the media and the public that funding is not going to be a problem for them that they have a financial commitment that is iron clad and backed by the Japanese. So we'll see but that is where the Houston to Dallas passenger service lies right now. As for extending the Heartland flyer to San Antonio........good luck with that pipe dream. From what I heard it will eventually be extended to possibly Kansas City with a Heartland Flyer North from OK City. Lots of interest there on the part of Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma. Weak link is Oklahoma for funding, also they are not sure if it should be two trains or just an extension of the one. Extending it South to San Antonio is a problem because of the train congestion on the line #1, #2 is that line is pretty slow and on the list for the state of Texas to relocate it West (which Texas does not have the money for yet). At any rate you would need to relocate the freight off that line I believe first before anymore passenger service could be accomodated on it without adding a lot of passing sidings and other infrastructure (to keep the timetable reasonably sane). The Texas Eagle timetable from Ft. Worth to San Antonio can easily be bested by car and is very, very slow.
Getting back on topic, I believe the host railroad for Dallas to Shreveport, and points east to Meridian would be Kansas City Southern, which never joined Amtrak. In past attempts to get them to host passenger trains met with not no but hell no attitude. I wonder if it's changed since?
"These passenger trains would average about 80 miles per hour, according to Anderson, and make about four stops along the way."
Really!. Given that the top speed permitted on the current route is 79 mph, how would a train from Dallas to Shreveport average 80 miles per hour with four stops. Makes me wonder how realistic the proponents are?
As noted in another post, the intermediate station on-time performance for the long distance trains is approximately 50 per cent. The problem is traffic congestion on the freight carriers that are hosting Amtrak's trains. Adding another trains is not likely to improve the situation.
What makes anyone think that the UP will permit addition passenger trains on its line between Dallas and points east? They would fight it tooth and nail. And they would be right to do so unless they are fully compensated for hosting any passenger trains.
Sam1 "These passenger trains would average about 80 miles per hour, according to Anderson, and make about four stops along the way." Really!. Given that the top speed permitted on the current route is 79 mph, how would a train from Dallas to Shreveport average 80 miles per hour with four stops. Makes me wonder how realistic the proponents are? As noted in another post, the intermediate station on-time performance for the long distance trains is approximately 50 per cent. The problem is traffic congestion on the freight carriers that are hosting Amtrak's trains. Adding another trains is not likely to improve the situation. What makes anyone think that the UP will permit addition passenger trains on its line between Dallas and points east? They would fight it tooth and nail. And they would be right to do so unless they are fully compensated for hosting any passenger trains.
OK a few items here that you might not be aware of or misinterpreted.
1. The new HSR line would roughly follow UP's tracks, it's not going to be ON UP tracks as the speed is projected to be 150 mph between Dallas and Ft. Worth with just one stop in between.....if that, it will be a new roadbed and more than likely elevated or submerged into the ground with no grade crossings plus..........well nevermind, watch the video I posted in another thread in this same forum about this HSR line it is on youtube, it's all in there. Sounds like UP is on board with sharing it's ROW and the Dallas to Houston HSR line might also parallel parts of the UP rail line between those two cities. They have already thought of terrorism as well in the proposal and the ROW will have intrusion / tamper detection systems as well as ground sesmic detection.. The HSR line will only have one or two stops between Houston and Dallas as each stop with a 150 mph train I think they calculated impacts time between the cities by 15-20 min for the slowdown and speedup and the waiting at the station. I think in the Video they were fighting with College Station as that being the ONLY stop between Houston and Dallas but the presenter in the video said they might consider a second stop but depends on their analysis.
2. Norfolk Southern and KCS are I believe in a arrangement to perform joint track improvements on the Meridian speedway (between Meridian and Dallas) to speed up TOFC trains between Atlanta and Dallas. No idea what that means for track speed BUT I am not sure the whole route is rated 79 mph for passenger currently. So might need even more money for passenger train track improvements Also they have not agreed on the stops on the route yet between Dallas and Shreveport so that is all a wild guess reprinted in the article.
A McIntosh Getting back on topic, I believe the host railroad for Dallas to Shreveport, and points east to Meridian would be Kansas City Southern, which never joined Amtrak. In past attempts to get them to host passenger trains met with not no but hell no attitude. I wonder if it's changed since?
It was to be either KCS or UP. I have to tell you that any railroad in the United States will do anything for the right amount of money. I don't believe the stories of railroad executives saying noway and it ever sticking when the right price was agreed on. Further, if for not money most would do it for the political influence it gives their Corporation. If you run a passenger train over your route you certainly have more political influence than if you just run freight because you interact with a lot more voters. So I read these stories in Trains Magazine about railroad executives saying "over my dead body" and such as just an opening salvo in a price negotiation.........nothing more.
Now there is the case of Canadian National with it's stonewalling with IDOT on the new service to Iowa. That is an argument over price, IMO. They have also stonewalled with the 20th Century Railroad Club in Chicago on attempts to use CN for their excursions as well I have been told. Again it is price. If Bill Gates wants to take a private rail trip from Chicago to Oshkosh, WI.........it would not be a problem for CN and they would probably be falling over themselves to pull it off. Same for POTUS. Both would expand their influence a little in the political and business spheres.
CMStPnP Sam1 "These passenger trains would average about 80 miles per hour, according to Anderson, and make about four stops along the way." Really!. Given that the top speed permitted on the current route is 79 mph, how would a train from Dallas to Shreveport average 80 miles per hour with four stops. Makes me wonder how realistic the proponents are? As noted in another post, the intermediate station on-time performance for the long distance trains is approximately 50 per cent. The problem is traffic congestion on the freight carriers that are hosting Amtrak's trains. Adding another trains is not likely to improve the situation. What makes anyone think that the UP will permit addition passenger trains on its line between Dallas and points east? They would fight it tooth and nail. And they would be right to do so unless they are fully compensated for hosting any passenger trains. OK a few items here that you might not be aware of or misinterpreted. 1. The new HSR line would roughly follow UP's tracks, it's not going to be ON UP tracks as the speed is projected to be 150 mph between Dallas and Ft. Worth with just one stop in between.....if that, it will be a new roadbed and more than likely elevated or submerged into the ground with no grade crossings plus..........well nevermind, watch the video I posted in another thread in this same forum about this HSR line it is on youtube, it's all in there. Sounds like UP is on board with sharing it's ROW and the Dallas to Houston HSR line might also parallel parts of the UP rail line between those two cities. They have already thought of terrorism as well in the proposal and the ROW will have intrusion / tamper detection systems as well as ground sesmic detection.. The HSR line will only have one or two stops between Houston and Dallas as each stop with a 150 mph train I think they calculated impacts time between the cities by 15-20 min for the slowdown and speedup and the waiting at the station. I think in the Video they were fighting with College Station as that being the ONLY stop between Houston and Dallas but the presenter in the video said they might consider a second stop but depends on their analysis. 2. Norfolk Southern and KCS are I believe in a arrangement to perform joint track improvements on the Meridian speedway (between Meridian and Dallas) to speed up TOFC trains between Atlanta and Dallas. No idea what that means for track speed BUT I am not sure the whole route is rated 79 mph for passenger currently. So might need even more money for passenger train track improvements Also they have not agreed on the stops on the route yet between Dallas and Shreveport so that is all a wild guess reprinted in the article.
#1: Appears to be addressing the Dallas to Houston high speed project. This thread is about a proposed Dallas to Shreveport passenger train service.
#2: There is no passenger service on the L&A. Even if they upgrade the route to allow higher speeds for container trains, the maximum speed for a passenger train probably would be 79 mph, which with a few exceptions is a national standard, albeit one that is changing in some places. Also, I doubt the L&A would allow passenger trains on its lines short of a nasty court battle.
CMStPnP As for extending the Heartland flyer to San Antonio........good luck with that pipe dream. From what I heard it will eventually be extended to possibly Kansas City with a Heartland Flyer North from OK City. Lots of interest there on the part of Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma. Weak link is Oklahoma for funding, also they are not sure if it should be two trains or just an extension of the one. Extending it South to San Antonio is a problem because of the train congestion on the line #1, #2 is that line is pretty slow and on the list for the state of Texas to relocate it West (which Texas does not have the money for yet). At any rate you would need to relocate the freight off that line I believe first before anymore passenger service could be accomodated on it without adding a lot of passing sidings and other infrastructure (to keep the timetable reasonably sane). The Texas Eagle timetable from Ft. Worth to San Antonio can easily be bested by car and is very, very slow.
In talking to the Director of Connectivity - Thruway Buses (answering directly to the Chief of Operations Research and Planning) on a recent train ride, I had asked about something similar to this, mainly rerouting the Sunset up that route so that it's one-seat, not piece-meal as two or three trains, and serves Los Angeles just as they were originally planning with the Texas Eagle. Bottom line: most permeations like this have been thought of, but it's the matter of money and costs, the first of which Amtrak doesn't exactly have and the second of which determines how they'll have to approach what they do.
Also, either train combination would have to reach Kansas City as it's a mechanical stop for the train (just as San Antonio is for the Eagle). The plus side to using long distance to another local state service would be the freeing of equipment for the train being described on this thread (or even allowing the Chief to reroute to Wichita and use this equipment to run west of Newton and possibly even to Pueblo and north to Denver as CO seems to want service around there, too).
On topic, it's interesting that there's a study on this because the way Shreveport was explained to me at that time I spoke with the executive on the train, right now the bus to Longview is the more cost-efficient means right now to take the passengers. As I recall from that talk, too, although a train in that direction would be lovely, there were statistics about the passenger base (I do wish I could remember precisely what) that made the bus the better option than a train.
However, if TXDOT is willing to provide the funds, I can see a state-supported service at the very least based on everything they told me. The only issue I can see is Amtrak providing the equipment.
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