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IDOT to select SIEMENS/CUMMINS locomotives

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Saturday, December 21, 2013 2:09 PM

oltmannd

PNWRMNM

Oltmannd,

If you want custom items, you are going to pay custom prices. Besides, ATK beyond the NEC is just another welfare project. They need to spread the joy.

Mac

I suspect that part of it is the whole bidding process.  The consultant writes the spec from the "Christmas wish list" given to them by the DOT.  The consultant and DOT finalize the spec and heave it out to the public for bidding.  The manufacturers bid on the exact stuff in the spec.  It can include all sorts of stuff like training, spare parts, documentation, adaptability for all sorts of train control, and who-knows-what.

Well, hey!  At least it is not the Lockheed-Martin F-35 Lightening II.

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Posted by Jim200 on Saturday, December 21, 2013 1:36 PM
Trains newswire reports : Siemens $7,047,181, EMD $8,125,937, MotivePower $8,153,429 per locomotive. Multiplied by 35 gives Siemens $246,651,335. The $225 million bid must be for 32 locomotives, since Washington DOT has anoption for 3 more. Multiplied by 260 possible locomotives gives Siemens $1,832,267,060 or more , since the cost of the long distance locomotives with bigger tanks has not been determined. Why didn't GE bid?
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Posted by oltmannd on Saturday, December 21, 2013 12:09 PM

PNWRMNM

Oltmannd,

If you want custom items, you are going to pay custom prices. Besides, ATK beyond the NEC is just another welfare project. They need to spread the joy.

Mac

I suspect that part of it is the whole bidding process.  The consultant writes the spec from the "Christmas wish list" given to them by the DOT.  The consultant and DOT finalize the spec and heave it out to the public for bidding.  The manufacturers bid on the exact stuff in the spec.  It can include all sorts of stuff like training, spare parts, documentation, adaptability for all sorts of train control, and who-knows-what.

Then there are all the constraints in Federal law when you use Federal money.  Content, testing, design... 

Beat on high for 3 minutes, bake a 350F for 20 minutes...$7M brownies!

Everybody in the process is pretty much in bed with everyone else:  The Transit-Consultant-Supplier Complex, it might be called if DDE were still around.

I can't believe that if an AC freight locomotive is $2.5M, that you couldn't build a decent passenger unit for $3.5M.   A GE Genesis with some trucks fitted with frame mounted, quill drive motors would do it.  (Just look at how long and how many miles those P42s have on'em!)

The real telling moment will be when (if?) FEC orders 125 mph locomotives.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Saturday, December 21, 2013 12:08 PM

schlimm

PNWRMNM

Oltmannd,

If you want custom items, you are going to pay custom prices. Besides, ATK beyond the NEC is just another welfare project. They need to spread the joy.

Mac

Is it possible for you to constrain your political obsessions?

No more than it is for you.

Mac

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, December 21, 2013 11:11 AM

PNWRMNM

Oltmannd,

If you want custom items, you are going to pay custom prices. Besides, ATK beyond the NEC is just another welfare project. They need to spread the joy.

Mac

Is it possible for you to constrain your political obsessions?

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Saturday, December 21, 2013 9:27 AM

Oltmannd,

If you want custom items, you are going to pay custom prices. Besides, ATK beyond the NEC is just another welfare project. They need to spread the joy.

Mac

  • Member since
    January 2001
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Posted by oltmannd on Saturday, December 21, 2013 8:50 AM

$7+ M a piece!  Ouch! Ouch! Ouch!

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Alan F on Friday, December 20, 2013 10:30 PM

daveklepper

Wonder how the folks at EMD-Caterpiller and GE are taking this.

GE did not submit a bid, so I doubt that they expected to be selected. The final offerors were EMD, Siemens, and MotivePower. There is an IDOT webpage with many documents from the RFP for the Next Gen diesel locomotives. In the evaluation report, Siemens bid $225 million for the base contract, while EMD and MotivePower bid $260 million. In the scoring of the bids, Siemens won on points in each category.

The contract is not just for 35 locomotives because the RFP asked for options for up to 225 additional locomotives, including up to 175 in "LD" configuration. So the Siemens locomotives, if Amtrak can get the funding in a few years, are likely to replace all the P-40 and P-42s in the Amtrak fleet in the next 8-10 years. The Siemens bid is reportedly based on the Vectron DE diesel which will have a lot of commonality with the ACS-64 electric locomotive.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, December 20, 2013 2:44 AM

Wonder how the folks at EMD-Caterpiller and GE are taking this.

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IDOT to select SIEMENS/CUMMINS locomotives
Posted by Buslist on Thursday, December 19, 2013 7:12 PM
According to Railway Age's news feed IDOT is selecting the Siemens/Cummins team for the 35 joint procurement locomotives.


The Illinois Department of Transportation (IDOT) has issued a Notice of Intent to Award to Siemens Rail Systems USA for approximately 35 high-performance diesel-electric locomotives for several Midwestern and West Coast states using funds from the U.S. Department of Transportation. IDOT is leading the multi-state locomotive procurement on behalf of the Departments of Transportation from Illinois, California, Michigan, Washington, and Missouri.
The Notice of Intent to Award means a potential vendor has been identified. A contract still needs to be awarded before the purchase can proceed.

The new locomotives will achieve a maximum speed of 125 mph and meet Federal Environmental Protection Agency Tier 4 emissions standards. They will be equipped with the Cummins QSK95 diesel engines, which Siemens is using for its U.S.-market diesel-electric locomotives, “resulting in one of the most energy-efficient, lightweight, smart, diesel-electric locomotives available today in North America,” Siemens said.

Siemens and Cummins announced their partnership on Dec. 3, 2013.

In 2012, IDOT was involved in a multi-state procurement of 130 next-generation bilevel railcars for high-performance service, an effort led by the California Department of Transportation (Caltrans). That effort resulted in the selection of Sumitomo/Nippon-Sharyo, which is building the railcars at its plant in Rochelle, Ill. The procurement includes 88 cars to be deployed on Midwest regional corridors. The Rochelle plant opened in 2012 and has created more than 250 jobs in Illinois.

Amtrak debuted the first 110-mph HrSR (higher-speed rail) service segment outside of the Northeast Corridor on the Chicago to Detroit Corridor in early 2012. Today, the corridor features an 80-mile segment of track where trains are running up to 110 mph. By 2015, nearly 80% of the corridor will see sustained speeds of 110 mph, with new high performance equipment.

Illinois debuted 110 mph service on a 15-mile segment of the Chicago-St. Louis corridor from Dwight to Pontiac in November 2012. IDOT is working with Union Pacific and FRA to ensure that Positive Train Control requirements and all required track and crossing improvements are completed in order to expand 110-mph service to about 75% of the corridor by 2017. In December 2012, FRA provided a Record of Decision on the entire Chicago-St. Louis corridor, allowing Illinois to begin in-depth corridor segment analysis and specific project analysis to move toward HrSR service on the other 25% of the corridor as soon as possible, including the Chicago-Joliet and Alton-St. Louis segments.

“We are extremely proud to have been selected as a rolling stock partner to help bring the next era of passenger rail service to Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, California, and Washington State,” said Michael Cahill, President of Siemens Rail Systems USA.

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