I rode the Merchants and other New Haven trains many times between New York and Boston, 1949 - PC takeover in 1970. Most of the time it took exactly six minutes in both directions to change engines at New Haven. Five people were involved. One for siginalling the engineers, usually one of the trainmen or conductor, one local mechanic to handle the couplers, one more to handle the communication cables. one for the steam line, and one for the air hoses. Only a running air-brake test was made, none standing.
Check the timetables of the period and you will the scheduled time was five minutes.
With Penn Central, the number of people was reduced and the itme lengthened. Two people during Amtrak. And a standing airbrake test became mandatory.
The fares shown in my original post were compared on July 13, 2013. The fare that I chose was booked on July 14th. I traveled on August 27th.
Absent a valid statistical sample of the four fare classes offered by Amtrak on the NEC, taken over at least a year, conclusions about the actual fare spreads are speculative.
Without a valid statistical sample of the travel policies, procedures, and practices governing the travel of people in the NEC, irrespective of the mode of transport, as well as assumptions about the cost of alternative modes of transport, the conclusions are speculative.
A valid statistical sample, drawn over at least a year, of the compensation, employment, productivity, values, etc., of people who chose one of Amtrak’s four classes of service, or selected another mode of transport, would be necessary to draw any valid conclusions about the population as a whole.
Cost and time are only two of the drivers that motivate the choice of transport. Convenience, comfort, dependability, connectivity, source and destination mobility, and status all play a role. Sorting out what is important for each individual or a prototypical individual is a complex process. Isolating the variables is a daunting task. Without access to the profiles of people who choose one of Amtrak’s class of service, as well as those for people who choose an alternative mode of transport, conclusions drawn about their motivation and values are tenuous at best.
I grew up in Altoona during the fifties. I took the train to New York many times to visit my uncle. At Harrisburg the E7s and E8s were replaced by GG1s to pull the train to New York. I usually rode one of the secondary trains from Altoona to New York, but almost always returned on one of the premium trains, i.e. General, Spirit of St. Louis, The Penn Texas.
I don't recall timing the power change at Harrisburg, but I don't believe it took 20 minutes. As I remember it, especially with respect to the flagship trains, the crews seemed to take pride in their work. I don't remember the power change on the premium trains taking very long. This was especially true if the train was late.
I think the Broadway, rode about six or seven times, took about seven or eight minutes, only a few more than the NH change for the Merchants and Yankee Clipper
Both at Harrisburg and at New Haven, some trains added and/or dropped cars. This added to the station time.
daveklepperCheck the timetables of the period and you will the scheduled time was five minutes.
http://viewoftheblue.com/photography/timetables/NH43067.pdf
This is the 1967 timetable I found, Dave. You are right. For most trains the scheduled time to change engines was 8 to 10 minutes. I never observed as closely as you did but I do recall going into the station and making a telephone call and having time to get back on the train.
In college I would take the Owl which left Grand Central at 12:40 am and return late that same night. The fare was $9 plus 55¢ to return on my one day ticket.
John
PS. Do you think it might have been possible that a train coming into New Haven might, just might, have taken a little extra time to change engines, a little more than the scheduled time?
As I posted, I timed the Merchants' engine change more than once, and it regularly took only one minute more than the five minutes scheduled for both the Yankee Clipper and the Merchants Limited. But, again, five people were needed for this performance, and such manning was dropped by the time Penn Central took control.
The Yankee Clipper became a coach and parlor train during WWII. When I rode it behind an I-5 in 1948 it was already a coach and parlor train. On that trip, the coaches were the just-delivered 8600-series post-WWII cars with fluted stainless added to basic "American Flyer" design. The parlors, and I rode in one, were the old six-wheel-truck heavyweights. (I was with a returnng camp group, otherwise my parents would not have sprung for my riding first-class.) They were replaced by post-war parlors a year later.
McGinnnis made the Merchants into a coach and parlor train and took off the obs-lounge well before 1967. It did not have a lounge car afterward, but did have both a diner, mostly for parlor car passengers, and a grill car mostly for coach passengers, with freedom for all to use either. After a few years the grille car came off, but the diner and parlors remained into the Amtrak era until the arrival of Amfleet 1.
According to the 4-30-1967 TT John linked, both the Merchants Ltd and Yankee Clipper had coaches and parlor cars; the Clipper had a grill car, while the Merchants had a diner. The Clipper only ran from NYC to BOS. Dwell times in NH were 8 minutes.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
If you check the 1957 schedules you will see five minutes for both trains, and longer times for all others.
Do you mean to say that by 1967 the Boston - New York Yankee Clipper was discontinued? It is possible.
I do know that by 1967 the Merchants was the only Grand Central New Haven train with a diner. The others had grill cars or no food service car. But some Washington trains also had diners, the Senator in particular.
daveklepper If you check the 1957 schedules you will see five minutes for both trains, and longer times for all others. Do you mean to say that by 1967 the Boston - New York Yankee Clipper was discontinued? It is possible.
It was the 1967 schedule John posted and it does not contain a Boston - NYC Clipper, just the northbound.
schlimmIt was the 1967 schedule John posted and it does not contain a Boston - NYC Clipper, just the northbound.
That's true, Schlimm. The Patriot which ran through to Washington left Boston at 1:00 pm. The Yankee Clipper left New York at 1:00 pm for Boston. I suppose they though people who wanted an early afternoon departure from Boston could just ride the Patriot. However, it did use Penn Station while the Clipper used Grand Central.
In the "classic" days, the Merchants did leave both NY and Boston a 5pm, and the Yankee Clipper at 1pm. I suspect that Patriot southbound left at Noon or was an addition to the hourly departures and left at 12:30pm. My trip on the Clipper behind an I-5 with a camp group was southbound in 1948, with of course only 5 miuntes scheduled for the change at New Haven and it probably took 6. My parents lived in Manhattan until Dad's passing in July 1955. I was at MIT 1949-1954. At Bolt Beranek and Newman's Cambridge, MA office 1957-1967, most of my clients were NYC architects, so I got to use the NYNH&H Shore Line a lot. Gerre Dyar, a classmate and fellow railfan still lives in the Harfford area. He had a huge O-gauge layout in his basement. So some trips were via Hartford, either on the "Inland route" or on the Boston Waterbury trains, once riding the articulated Comet. Same fare. Later, the BBN New York office was at 101 Park Avenue, so GCT trains were generally more convenient that Penn. Not if I was going to Princeton or Westfield or a Long Island destination, although I used the Owl a lot in addition to the Merchants.
I suspect that when the Patriot was moved in time to replace the southbound Yankee Clipper, that it had an across-the-platform connection at New Haven with a Springfield - GCT train to preserve a GCT destination for those desisring it and to provide a south of NY connection for passengers from Springfield. Check the timetable, please. Also, did it have a grill car or a diner?
Gerre is very active in the restoration of rail service in Connecticut and some of you may know him.
daveklepperI suspect that when the Patriot was moved in time to replace the southbound Yankee Clipper, that it had an across-the-platform connection at New Haven with a Springfield - GCT train to preserve a GCT destination for those desisring it and to provide a south of NY connection for passengers from Springfield. Check the timetable, please. Also, did it have a grill car or a diner?
Dave: There were parlor cars, coaches and a dining car for the Patriot. The Patriot arrived in NH at 3:50, departed at 3:58 pm. # 50 from Springfield arrived in NH at 3:53 pm, so a cross platform transfer should have been possible...
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.