Refer to my comment on the Penn Station thread about those in charge being so afraid of making a wrong decision they won't make ANY decision at all.
Oh, rfpjohn, not five minutes before I checked out this thread Lady Firestorm and I were discussing this Amtrak incident and she said the SAME thing you did, i.e. why didn't they move the passengers to the good part of the train and do the three miles to the station? Furious minds think alike, huh?
I'm somewhat surpised they didn't move the train at the pace of a slow walk just to make those last miles. I mean, one wheel's nasty but there are at least three others on the truck, aren't there?
Firelock76 I'm somewhat surpised they didn't move the train at the pace of a slow walk just to make those last miles. I mean, one wheel's nasty but there are at least three others on the truck, aren't there?
It only takes one wheel with built up tread to derail all the others. When Amtrak mechanical forces were unable to chip off the build up - the brakes were locked down on that axle and it was slid on greased rail to it's set off location on a industrial spur.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Good explanation Big Jim, I understand. What I DON'T understand is a 14 hour lockdown of the passengers. Amtrak'll be lucky if they don't get some lawsuits over this due to unlawful restraint.
From the video posted on an earlier thread, I saw two cars in front of the diner--Viewliner sleepers. It would have been a bit difficult to have put all the passengers into them. Perhaps CSX would have granted permission for Amtrak to make the necessary number of trips to ferry all of the passengers in those two cars.
Johnny
rfpjohn There are 8 detectors between DC and Richmond. Hot box detectors are focused at the journal so as not to give a high reading every time a car goes by with the brakes applied. Sticking brakes take a long time to build up sufficient heat to show up at the journal.
There are 8 detectors between DC and Richmond. Hot box detectors are focused at the journal so as not to give a high reading every time a car goes by with the brakes applied. Sticking brakes take a long time to build up sufficient heat to show up at the journal.
Which is why there are hot wheel detectors....although I don't know how prevalent their use is these days.
As an aside, Amfleet cars have onboard HBDs since they have inside journals. Regular HBDs would only see anything at all on the non-Amfleet stuff.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
conrailman Amtrak is getting New Viewliner Dining Cars this Fall 2013 from they 130 new car order.
Amtrak is getting New Viewliner Dining Cars this Fall 2013 from they 130 new car order.
Wanna bet they have the same brake valve as the existing diners?
fulhamWas someone at Sunnyside negligent in sending the car out, or was this a problem that could not have been foreseen?
Probably unforseen. Unlikely it was a handbrake left on. Most likely the brakes didn't release after an application - bad brake valve - one that probably passed the initial terminal test in Sunnyside and the apply and release at WAS after then engine change.
What I don't get is how did the car get so bad it couldn't move before anybody took a look at it. Build up tread doesn't happen in the span of a couple of minutes.
In reading the above posts, it seems lucky that the car did not derail. Had it derailed, given where it was in the train, it could have been bad, although I do not know how fast the train was going at the time. I do remember the horrific crash of the City of New Orleans back in 1971 when I believe a traction motor froze on one of the lead E-units. Hopefully Amtrak will figure out what did cause this problem and take steps to correct it from happening again.
Built up tread is caused by metalic transfer from stuck tread clasping brake shoes to the tread of the wheel. It is a common, though not frequent happening. It is extremely rare on passenger trains as the cars are subject to more frequent and rigerous inspections than are freight cars as well as the fact that most, if not all, of Amtrak's non-Heritage fleet use disk brakes as opposed to wheel clasping brake shoes. A seriously stuck disk braked car will normally have the wheel slid flat to a condemable flat spot, another serious mechanical condition.
BaltACD most, if not all, of Amtrak's non-Heritage fleet use disk brakes as opposed to wheel clasping brake shoes.
most, if not all, of Amtrak's non-Heritage fleet use disk brakes as opposed to wheel clasping brake shoes.
Completely forgot Heritage cars have tread brakes. Just one more reason to retire Heritage cars ?
Very fortunate the CSX freight crew saw the fire under the diner. Train would probably derailed when entering the Staples mill station tracks ?
blue streak 1 BaltACD most, if not all, of Amtrak's non-Heritage fleet use disk brakes as opposed to wheel clasping brake shoes. Completely forgot Heritage cars have tread brakes. Just one more reason to retire Heritage cars ? Very fortunate the CSX freight crew saw the fire under the diner. Train would probably derailed when entering the Staples mill station tracks ?
They likely have both tread and disc brakes. Amfleet was delivered with just disc braking. But, the tread brakes were added to help keep the wheels from developing a "false flange" which causes rough riding. I don't think you can brake at full service from 100 mph with just tread braking w/o doing some thermal damage to the wheels. The braking HP at those speeds is just too high.
If my memory is correct, some equipment prior to Amfleet and the original Metroliners had disk brakes, Budd equipment in particular. Some RDC's? The Keystone? El Capitan bi-levels?
Yes, Dave, I remember noticing, in the early fifties, the disc brakes on lightweight sleepers, and I recall that they were Budd-built sleepers.
As to speaking of "Budd-built," I was talking with a VIA man a few years ago and comparing the equipment built for the original Canadian and the Renaissance equipment, and spoke of the "Budd-built," and he said that the RDC's came to mind when I used that term.
oltmannd blue streak 1 BaltACD most, if not all, of Amtrak's non-Heritage fleet use disk brakes as opposed to wheel clasping brake shoes. Completely forgot Heritage cars have tread brakes. Just one more reason to retire Heritage cars ? Very fortunate the CSX freight crew saw the fire under the diner. Train would probably derailed when entering the Staples mill station tracks ? They likely have both tread and disc brakes. Amfleet was delivered with just disc braking. But, the tread brakes were added to help keep the wheels from developing a "false flange" which causes rough riding. I don't think you can brake at full service from 100 mph with just tread braking w/o doing some thermal damage to the wheels. The braking HP at those speeds is just too high.
One of the things required in wheel maintenance is to remove material so as to restore the correct wheel tread "profile" or shape. This can be done by removing the wheel set and machining the wheel surfaces on a lathe. I read there is something called the "Lidgerwood method" where special cutters are substituted for the brake pads and the rail car is pushed back and forth to turn the wheels, a method not requiring removing the axles.
After one or more reprofilings, the wheel set needs to be replaced. Back in the day, steam locomotive wheels had steel "tires" that could be replaced to have more wheel surface.
Do you think this Amtrak method suggests a way that more metal can be added back to the wheel tread, in this case, by a kind of "friction stir" welding process? You put on special brake shoes, set the brakes, and then tow the train car at a specified speed and distance? After that, you replace the brake shoes with the Lidgerwood cutting blades, and then you tow the train car some more to restore the wheel profile?
If you are going to use tread brakes as a supplement to disk brakes as a way of avoiding the "false flange", you might as well "go the whole hog" and use special tread brake pads as a complete system of wheel surface maintenance. You heard it here first -- good as new!
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
FWIW Just checked 3 old SOU RR lightweight cars. Although the side fluting was the same the trucks and, bearings, & auxiliaries underneath were different. At least 2 appear to be PS. All 3 cars had only tread brakes and no disk brakes. Only car number found was 2204.
Deggesty From the video posted on an earlier thread, I saw two cars in front of the diner--Viewliner sleepers. It would have been a bit difficult to have put all the passengers into them. Perhaps CSX would have granted permission for Amtrak to make the necessary number of trips to ferry all of the passengers in those two cars.
And leave the people still waiting on the train without HEP, so without A/C and lights? I think that is a bad idea.
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 Deggesty From the video posted on an earlier thread, I saw two cars in front of the diner--Viewliner sleepers. It would have been a bit difficult to have put all the passengers into them. Perhaps CSX would have granted permission for Amtrak to make the necessary number of trips to ferry all of the passengers in those two cars. And leave the people still waiting on the train without HEP, so without A/C and lights? I think that is a bad idea.
I believe it was mentioned the train had 261 passengers - probably 98% of all those passengers were destined well beyond Richmond. How many passengers can the Richmond Amtrak station support for a extended period of time with food, beverage and A/C?
BaltACD I believe it was mentioned the train had 261 passengers - probably 98% of all those passengers were destined well beyond Richmond. How many passengers can the Richmond Amtrak station support for a extended period of time with food, beverage and A/C?
They could at least get a cab to the airport.
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