Why US is behind in HSR development and what's next

[John WR]

incorrect post

[John WR]

henry6

But has the public defined and what are their expectations?  The only exposure the public has had is through the media tossing the term around and pointing to Japan, China, Germany and France.

I think the public that travels over a given route has defined it, Henry.  Consider, for example, the New York and Washington route which gets a lot of traffic.  

1.  There is the flying public, people who expect speed most and will pay a high price for it.  

2.  There is the Acela public, right now a big group.  They pay a high price about the same as flying as far as I can figure out.  They also expect speed and perhaps downtown stations.  

3.  There is the Northeast Regional public.  People who expect a relatively low price and the comfort and convenience of the train. 

4.  There is the bus riding public.  People who expect a bargain.

5.  There is the driving public.  Families who expect a fairly low price.  Individuals who need their cars when they get there.  People who just prefer to drive.  

But a lot of people don't travel that route and don't think about it or have expectations.  

[henry6]

My point is that there everyone who discusses or brings up this topic has his own definition...and even planners, politicians, and the media approach the subject within their definitions and understandings.  The public has no concept of the technical matters and dividing lines, etc. that the design engineers have which the politicians don't understand, etc.  Until a planner and design engineer tell me about a railroad between two given points that will operated at a given speed defined as HSR, then the concept is wide open because 90 could be high speed to some and 150 slow compared to others. 

[John WR]

Henry,

PS.  Clearly, there is one part of the public that expects low princes.  These people now ride discount buses and Amtrak has never tried to attract their business.  But supposing Amtrak did on its New York to Washington Service?

Right now the lowest price for an Amtrak ticket New York to Washington is $49.  However, discount buses charge a lot less, typically 8 to 15 dollars.  I don't know that Amtrak could get down to $15 but perhaps they could get to $25.  An Amfleet coach has about 80 seats.  A New Jersey Transit multilevel car has 140 seats.  Amtrak could add a multilevel car to at least some trains.  Who might ride?

1.  Some people who now ride buses might upgrade for a few more bucks.  The multilevel cars are more comfortable than a bus with larger seats.  Also, if you read customer reviews waiting for a bus on a street is one think that generates negative comments.  Amtrak stations are not the greatest places in the world, perhaps, but you are out of the weather and if you are early there is a place to sit down plus restrooms.  And while some may think waiting on the street is safe, especially very late at night, I think a lot of people don't like that.  Amtrak stations are policed and as safe as any public place can be.  I think there might be a group willing to spend a few more bucks and move to Amtrak.  

2.  Commuters.  An Amtrak  commuter ticket between Philadelphia and New York costs $1314.  Half of that is $657.  The same trip on SEPTA and New Jersey Transit is $612.  Amtrak trains would be significantly faster, especially faster than SEPTA.  Plus no changing trains in Trenton.  NJT, of course, runs multilevel cars and its express trains are as fast as Amtrak but the SEPTA part of the journey is not.  Coming home on NJT very often there is standing room only; on Amtrak you get a seat.  I think some would pay the extra $50 a month.  

3.  However, there could be a down side.  Discount buses do not run from the intermediate cities.  If you want to go from New Brunswick or Trenton to Washington Amtrak is all that is there.  Some of those people might also move to the new low priced seats who otherwise would have rode in an Amfleet car.  

With your background in advertising you know more about this than I do.  Might it be possible to mount and ad campaign aimed at the discount bus riders to get them to move to Amtrak $25 seats?

John

[schlimm]

Levels of service and speed on a modern passenger rail system (DB):

Intercity-Express (ICE) is the fastest and most comfortable way to travel on the DB Bahn network, reaching speeds of up to 320 km/h (198 mph) though 174 mph is more common.  EMU's.

Intercity (IC) and Eurocity (EC) Faster than regional trains, IC and EC trains connect major cities, reaching speeds of 200 km/h (125 mph).  Locomotive-hauled generally. 

Regional Express, Regionalbahn and S-bahn connect cities and basic local services.  RE speeds reach 200km/h, but usually less.  RB's stop at all stations; S-bahns are suburban trains.  May be locomotive-hauled or EMU's or DMU's in non-electrified areas.  Many are double deck.