BaltACDCongress expected Amtrak to die. The fact that Amtrak (and rail commuter - which Congress never even looked at during Amtrak formation) continues to operate and is developing a increasing impact in the areas served is a testament to the people of Amtrak and also the people of the rail commuter agencies.
Balt,
Hasn't it been ever thus? It seems to me that the best railroads have ever been able to hope for from government is malignant neglect. And often they have gotten much worse. Ultimately they did almost die out but now they have arisen like a phoenix from their own ashes.
John
We cannot approach passenger rail, even HST in this counrty the way they do in Europe or Japan. Why, you ask. If you places all the different countrie in Europe together they are about the size of the USA. They are basically a bunch of Northeasr corridors and each country is financing their own rail. If we (the USA) had the area they have we wouldn't have a problem. Maybe if we had the corridors trains separated from the long distant and overnighters we may be able to solve the problem. Maybe if trains like the Empire Builder , Sunset Limited, and other 'cruise trains' were operated independant of the others we may find solutions. Each of these services require a different level of attention and service. I don't think that it is fair to judge the winners and losers when tthe funds for each type of service is intermingled. No European country is quite as diversified as ours. Affter all we have quite a bit more ifrastructure than they do. the railroad especially the western roads cover quite a bit more territory than those in Europe and are not government funded. maintaining a single line ins quite costly so if Germany or France were as large as the USA I'll bet they would have problems too with high speed rail
I C Rider We cannot approach passenger rail, even HST in this counrty the way they do in Europe or Japan. Why, you ask. If you places all the different countrie in Europe together they are about the size of the USA. They are basically a bunch of Northeasr corridors and each country is financing their own rail. If we (the USA) had the area they have we wouldn't have a problem. Maybe if we had the corridors trains separated from the long distant and overnighters we may be able to solve the problem. Maybe if trains like the Empire Builder , Sunset Limited, and other 'cruise trains' were operated independant of the others we may find solutions. Each of these services require a different level of attention and service. I don't think that it is fair to judge the winners and losers when tthe funds for each type of service is intermingled. No European country is quite as diversified as ours. Affter all we have quite a bit more ifrastructure than they do. the railroad especially the western roads cover quite a bit more territory than those in Europe and are not government funded. maintaining a single line ins quite costly so if Germany or France were as large as the USA I'll bet they would have problems too with high speed rail
Why not like Europe and Japan? We have been waiting years to build it why not just build it already? The states of the United States are about the same size as European countries. The Contiguous US is about the same size as Europe. You don't necessarily need to offer long distance service just connect a variety of different corridors. Though HSR can work over long distances China has proven this in fact HSR gains in efficiency from not having to stop as much. A trip from Chicago to New Orleans would be well served by HSR or Chicago to New york.
Railroad to Freedom
The eventual goal should be the gradual building/improving of the appropriate (under 500 mile) corridors for HSR and/or less than HSR (110 mph). In the meantime, long distance trains have to be retained, even though they are not primary transportation, more like cruise liners. As such, the amount of subsidy should be reduced, as no one expects we should subsidize folks who want to take a Caribbean or Mississippi river cruise. This can be done by reducing costs of sleeper and dining services and raising fares for those passengers.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm The eventual goal should be the gradual building/improving of the appropriate (under 500 mile) corridors for HSR and/or less than HSR (110 mph). In the meantime, long distance trains have to be retained, even though they are not primary transportation, more like cruise liners. As such, the amount of subsidy should be reduced, as no one expects we should subsidize folks who want to take a Caribbean or Mississippi river cruise. This can be done by reducing costs of sleeper and dining services and raising fares for those passengers.
Actually cruise ships do receive subsidies from the government.
Right now in the USA our infrastructure is crimbling because we are waiting on government funds to tix it .Roads and bridges are in dire need of repair and airports are at near capacity and the air traffic controll system id old and outdated The railroads however are improving. Why because they do not depend on goverment funds for infrastructuture. the government is constantly telling railroads how to be safer but they don't put any money into it. The do fund or subsidize all other modes of transportation and they can't seem to find the funds to keep it up dated. If airlines had to pay for ATC and airports nthey too would be non profit making. Tax payers pay for tit and they may never fly but we pay. the problem with Amtrak is that the the government doesn't ride the trains at least the long distance ones and they do not realize that if they do nothing to keep Amtrak viable we will see gridlock. Today they re talking about laying off ATC workers a lot of people will be lookin g at the railroads but it too may be too crowded.
ontheBNSF schlimm The eventual goal should be the gradual building/improving of the appropriate (under 500 mile) corridors for HSR and/or less than HSR (110 mph). In the meantime, long distance trains have to be retained, even though they are not primary transportation, more like cruise liners. As such, the amount of subsidy should be reduced, as no one expects we should subsidize folks who want to take a Caribbean or Mississippi river cruise. This can be done by reducing costs of sleeper and dining services and raising fares for those passengers. Actually cruise ships do receive subsidies from the government.
Schlimm,
According to the Congressional Budget Office in 2007 the government spent $356 billion on water transportation in the United States. About half was spent by states and the other half by the Federal Government. The Federal half came from general tax levies on the taxpayers.
http://www.cbo.gov/publication/21902
schlimm ontheBNSF schlimm The eventual goal should be the gradual building/improving of the appropriate (under 500 mile) corridors for HSR and/or less than HSR (110 mph). In the meantime, long distance trains have to be retained, even though they are not primary transportation, more like cruise liners. As such, the amount of subsidy should be reduced, as no one expects we should subsidize folks who want to take a Caribbean or Mississippi river cruise. This can be done by reducing costs of sleeper and dining services and raising fares for those passengers. Actually cruise ships do receive subsidies from the government. Oh really? And what is your source for that claim? Most cruise lines are foreign-flagged.
US cruise line terminals are tax payer funded - mostly local for 'economic development' purposes.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Yes, local docks are usually paid for by the city they are in and the lines pay docking fees. However, the cruises are not subsidized and that was the analogy.
schlimm Yes, local docks are usually paid for by the city they are in and the lines pay docking fees. However, the cruises are not subsidized and that was the analogy.
The government does pay for their security.
TSA is at airports and you pay with your ticket, in part. ditto at docks. Same with ICE and customs. My point, which seems to be missed is that the government does not help pay for your ticket on the cruise liner. Cruises are not basic transportation; neither is riding in a sleeper on a 39 hour land cruise. passenger rail transportation is probably limited to a 5-6 hour distance.
Cruises do not only happen on the ocean. They also happen on our inland water ways. There the government has constant projects to maintain the rivers' suitability for navigation.
We are fifty states one country and one federal government. The are different countries with different governments and the area they cover in most cases are less than the area of our largest states. and each is basiclly responsible for their own areas
I C RiderWe are fifty states one country and one federal government.
Sometimes I'm not sure. Sectionalism seems as important today as it has always been.
Look we can policize the railroad but what it all boils down to with Amtrak is it a government entity operating within the private sector that doesn't want it in there so they obviously will not peak up for it. people who support passenger rail cannot muster up enough suppoerter to make a difference until there is grdlock within the other modes of transport. Greyhound ant one time took up the slack by going places that airlines or railroads didn't go now there are communities that they too have abandoned because of costs. . ight now this nations road and bridges are in need of major repairs.Major Airports are at or near capacity. The ATC system is in need up a overhaul. highways in major cities are overcrowded . The last tyhing Congress will concern itself with is a rail system the majority of Americans do not care about except the corridors. however when the weather makes hghways ipassible and airports shut down we beg and borrow railcars from all over to meet the needs. we run our passenger sevices really bad and expect it to bail us out we everything else can't function
I C Rider The last tyhing Congress will concern itself with is a rail system the majority of Americans do not care about except the corridors. however when the weather makes hghways ipassible and airports shut down
I C,
I pretty much agree with you. However, it seems reasonable to point out that Congress does concern itself with Amtrak. Whether we agree or disagree with Congress about Amtrak the concern is there.
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