Trains.com

A possible new direction for Amtrak Long Distance

12435 views
40 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Friday, November 2, 2012 4:11 AM

Who would spend money for luxury?   A good question, and you may be right.   If the Chicago - New Orleans experiment is successful, then it will demonstrate that there are travelers who will spend money for luxury.   Then my Boston - Newport News experiment would make sense.    But you may be right, and we will just have to see how Chicago - NO works out.

The same people who fly first class and who would like to sample what the luxury trains of the past had to offer.   That is the only market and it may be far too limited to be profitable.   I know when I was using the last of the private railroads "great streamliners" I always did consider costs.   Sometimes I would splerge and use "creative accounting" to make my expense account acceptable, even with receipts required, a roomette on the Panama Limited with "The Kings Dinner" and a good tip to a helpful porter.   Usually, when sluimbercoach or sleepercoach space was available, I would choose it instead of a roomette.   Traveling from St. Louis or Cincinnati or Columbus or Dayton to Boston meant coach to Cleveland and a roomette or slubmercoach to Boston.

When I couild afford it, I would have vacation money and time on private car trips, including many on Dick Horstmann's LV 353, on Pullman Classic Lmtd.'s PRR Mountain View, and on George Pins, now Levine's PRR 120.  This was real real luxury in every sense, and my share of the expenses was always more than what 1st class fares and  roomette charges and meals would have been (usually a lot more).   I think there MAY be people who are willing to pay to convert a routine business trip into a bit of a cruise and expect to be pampered and are willing to pay for it.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 2, 2012 8:18 AM

Anyone know how much the private operator of the Chicago to New Orleans luxury service will have to pay Amtrak to tow its cars?

Approximately five years ago I rode the EB from Milwaukee to Portland.  The train had a private business car attached to the rear from Chicago to Minneapolis, where it was uncoupled.  Whilst I was watching the process, a seemingly informed supervisory looking type told me that the operator had to pay $600 to have the car taken off the back of the train and moved approximately a mile to a private siding. Sounded pretty pricy to me.

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 11,971 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Friday, November 2, 2012 10:00 AM

It's all right here: http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/271/180/Private_Car_Tariff.pdf

$2.10 a car mile, for starters.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 40 posts
Posted by Dixie Flyer on Friday, November 2, 2012 10:05 AM

The issue is how do we get the middleclass to ride trains?  I am sure they represent a large portion of the airline tickets sold (830 million?).

If it is a corridor train time needs to be within an hour of car time and under four hours to compete wiith air travel.

On a long distance trip (anything over 4 hours) involving night travel the middleclass will fly vs traveling in a coach.  Offering sleeping car service is a new experience for most Americans whether you offer sections, slumbercoaches or other high occupancy sleeping quarters.  Furthermore these new passengers would probally accept riding coach before and after the sleeper porton of a route to keep the price down.

You treat sleeping car service like Norfork Southern's Triple Crown roadrailer service.  You gather your load as efficently as possible, run a sold out train between two points and distribute as efficiently as possible. 

Whatever is done Amtrak needs to grow to like 100 million passengers to improve its stability and political cloute..How do we get there?

 

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 11,971 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Friday, November 2, 2012 10:58 AM

Dixie Flyer

The issue is how do we get the middleclass to ride trains?  I am sure they represent a large portion of the airline tickets sold (830 million?).

If it is a corridor train time needs to be within an hour of car time and under four hours to compete wiith air travel.

On a long distance trip (anything over 4 hours) involving night travel the middleclass will fly vs traveling in a coach.  Offering sleeping car service is a new experience for most Americans whether you offer sections, slumbercoaches or other high occupancy sleeping quarters.  Furthermore these new passengers would probally accept riding coach before and after the sleeper porton of a route to keep the price down.

You treat sleeping car service like Norfork Southern's Triple Crown roadrailer service.  You gather your load as efficently as possible, run a sold out train between two points and distribute as efficiently as possible. 

Whatever is done Amtrak needs to grow to like 100 million passengers to improve its stability and political cloute..How do we get there?

 

1. Leverage what works.  The NEC works.  Look at market extensions from the NEC like the Lynchburg train, the additional Richmond train and the soon-to-be Norfolk train.

2. Push and reward productivity.  Cut costs like mad.  Stop rewarding "fiefdom building".

3. Run trains where there are people.  Run them during the day.  Avoid running trains overnight.  The "businessman's streamliner" schedule that is the staple of the Eastern LD routes (and some western ones) set sail long ago.  Let it go.  

4. Refocus the advocacy groups away from defending the status quo and on holding Amtrak accountable.   Focus on new projects and trains where there are clear benefits that exceed the costs to build and operate.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    August 2012
  • 3,727 posts
Posted by John WR on Friday, November 2, 2012 7:54 PM

There are three other things that I think do help Amtrak, Don.  

The first is gas that is approaching $4.00 a gallon.  

The second in the east is our many toll roads and bridges.

The third is all of the security checks associated with flying.  I've heard some real horror stories by people who use certain medical devices (for example, an insulin pump) and were suspected of being terrorists.   

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Saturday, November 3, 2012 7:26 AM

Dixie Flyer

The issue is how do we get the middleclass to ride trains?  I am sure they represent a large portion of the airline tickets sold (830 million?).

If it is a corridor train time needs to be within an hour of car time and under four hours to compete wiith air travel.

On a long distance trip (anything over 4 hours) involving night travel the middleclass will fly vs traveling in a coach.  Offering sleeping car service is a new experience for most Americans whether you offer sections, slumbercoaches or other high occupancy sleeping quarters.  Furthermore these new passengers would probally accept riding coach before and after the sleeper porton of a route to keep the price down.

You treat sleeping car service like Norfork Southern's Triple Crown roadrailer service.  You gather your load as efficently as possible, run a sold out train between two points and distribute as efficiently as possible. 

Whatever is done Amtrak needs to grow to like 100 million passengers to improve its stability and political cloute..How do we get there?

 

Exactly!!

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    August 2012
  • 3,727 posts
Posted by John WR on Saturday, November 3, 2012 3:22 PM

One more historical note, Dixie.  

Here in New Jersey in the 90's New Jersey Transit at one point suddenly raised fares significantly.  As I recall, the increase was in excess of 10 per cent.  After that increase so many people stopped riding trains that NJT actually lost money.  

In 2010 our present Governor, Chrisri Christie, cut NJT funds so much that NJT increased over all rail fares by 25 per cent and abolished excursion fares.  However instead of loosing customers NJT's train ridership held stead and then started to increase and today it is at the highest point ever.  Why is this?  One reason is that Governor Christie has also increased tolls on our toll roads which many people use to commute.  The increase is far more than it required to maintain the roads and represents a tax on drivers who use those roads.  (The toll increase had been planned by the previous administration with the revenue to be used to build 2 new rail tunnels under the Hudson River.  Governor Christie cancelled the tunnels but kept the tax increase).   

Certainly toll free public roads have a lot to do with people's transportation choices.  

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 4, 2012 9:30 AM

What I understood is the Gov. Christie intended to use tax money beyond maintenance and repair requiprements to add lanes, improve intersections, etc.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 40 posts
Posted by Dixie Flyer on Monday, November 5, 2012 7:34 AM

I think you are describing a win-win situation.  Amtrak provides a core nationwide rail alternative for coach service, insurance protection,  and nationwide marketing.  Maybe even like some commuter operations contracts out operating crews, service workers and maintaince services.  Opens the door for the private market to provide food service, sleepers, auto carriers, express or perishable services.

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • 1,243 posts
Posted by Sunnyland on Tuesday, November 6, 2012 12:57 PM

I have rode in Amtrak's sleepers-deluxe bedroom style with its' own bathroom. More roomy than the old Pullman bedroom was. 

I also rode on CP "Canadian"  in the sleepers and they were the very old style with curtains and just a berth. I never saw any like that in the US, they had stopped using them by that time. All their accommodations were the bedroom, closed door style. This was in the early-mid 60's.

I hope Amtrak will be able to continue their long distance service, but contracting out the sleepers might be an option.  I know I would prefer to pay extra to ride in a sleeper coach on a long trip, even the Roomette. I rode enough coaches with my parents "back in the day" and remember never sleeping very well. Their seats were not as comfy as the ones Amtrak uses, except for UP City of St. Louis, it had a leg rest that pulled out from under the seat so you could stretch out and rest your legs.  And people were constantly roaming around all night, especially men heading to the smoking lounge.  And traveling by myself, I prefer to be in a private room. Dad always put Mom & I together in the coach and he'd sit with the stranger. 

But I would not pay for a very pricey trip which is what the private car owners might charge.  I'm definitely middle class and watch how I spend my money. 

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy