oltmannd Sam1: oltmannd: I got the report and read it, too. Stan is more realistic than many about what a passenger rail program should/could look like - particularly many on the "advocate" side of the aisle. His talk doesn't get much beyond principles - and the devil is always in the detail... It is easy to speak in broad principles. Politicians do it every day. What I want to know, at the end of the day, is how will it be paid for? Too often dreamers, visionaries, etc., their self descriptions, who belittle folks who don't see the future the way that they do, lay off a plan without any idea how to pay for it. Or the plan that they put forth is unrealistic. Yup. No plan. Just principles. But, I'll give him his principles would lead to more realistic plans - that would have some shot of getting funded - compared to much of what gets tossed around. e.g. the ever escalating CAHSR project or Amtrak's $170B "new NEC". Yeesh.
Sam1: oltmannd: I got the report and read it, too. Stan is more realistic than many about what a passenger rail program should/could look like - particularly many on the "advocate" side of the aisle. His talk doesn't get much beyond principles - and the devil is always in the detail... It is easy to speak in broad principles. Politicians do it every day. What I want to know, at the end of the day, is how will it be paid for? Too often dreamers, visionaries, etc., their self descriptions, who belittle folks who don't see the future the way that they do, lay off a plan without any idea how to pay for it. Or the plan that they put forth is unrealistic.
oltmannd: I got the report and read it, too. Stan is more realistic than many about what a passenger rail program should/could look like - particularly many on the "advocate" side of the aisle. His talk doesn't get much beyond principles - and the devil is always in the detail...
I got the report and read it, too. Stan is more realistic than many about what a passenger rail program should/could look like - particularly many on the "advocate" side of the aisle. His talk doesn't get much beyond principles - and the devil is always in the detail...
It is easy to speak in broad principles. Politicians do it every day. What I want to know, at the end of the day, is how will it be paid for? Too often dreamers, visionaries, etc., their self descriptions, who belittle folks who don't see the future the way that they do, lay off a plan without any idea how to pay for it. Or the plan that they put forth is unrealistic.
Yup. No plan. Just principles. But, I'll give him his principles would lead to more realistic plans - that would have some shot of getting funded - compared to much of what gets tossed around. e.g. the ever escalating CAHSR project or Amtrak's $170B "new NEC". Yeesh.
I haven't read the presentation. I will try to do so. But until he comes up with a detailed plan on how to pay for it, or for that matter if anyone comes up with a workable plan to pay for the vision that they are rooting for, I'll pay closer attention. Until then a dream is a dream. The dust bins are full of studies that have gone no where because the advocates have no idea how to develop and execute a plan, including the financial aspects of it.
Sam1 oltmannd: I got the report and read it, too. Stan is more realistic than many about what a passenger rail program should/could look like - particularly many on the "advocate" side of the aisle. His talk doesn't get much beyond principles - and the devil is always in the detail... It is easy to speak in broad principles. Politicians do it every day. What I want to know, at the end of the day, is how will it be paid for? Too often dreamers, visionaries, etc., their self descriptions, who belittle folks who don't see the future the way that they do, lay off a plan without any idea how to pay for it. Or the plan that they put forth is unrealistic.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmannd I got the report and read it, too. Stan is more realistic than many about what a passenger rail program should/could look like - particularly many on the "advocate" side of the aisle. His talk doesn't get much beyond principles - and the devil is always in the detail...
Phoebe Vet People's feelings about spending are strongly influenced by down whose drain the money is being poured.
People's feelings about spending are strongly influenced by down whose drain the money is being poured.
True! But not all drain holes are the same. Intercity passenger rail is a commercial activity. It competes with other forms of commercial transport, i.e. bus companies, airlines, etc. It also competes with personal vehicles. To compare it to defense, education, etc. is over the top. There is no comparison.
I like passenger trains. I'll bet that I take more train trips per year than most of the people who post to these forums. I just came back from Washington, where I rode the train every day between Baltimore and Washington. I also threw in a trip to New York and back.
Intercity passenger rail should not be subsidized by the taxpayers. The users should pay for it. Those who advocate for improved intercity passenger rail should tell us how they would pay for it. To date I have not seen much in the way of realistic plans to pay for more and faster trains. Except of course to hit the taxpayers with the bill.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
henry6 I see about 60 have viewed this post but none have commented. I got Stan's report and was quite amazed that a lot of things I have preached or ranted over are covered. The need for regionalized, intermodal, interfacing systems is an important need for the future. What he doesn't say is what others have said about now being the time to make the investment and plans for the next 10 to 100 years and not just talk about it.
I see about 60 have viewed this post but none have commented. I got Stan's report and was quite amazed that a lot of things I have preached or ranted over are covered. The need for regionalized, intermodal, interfacing systems is an important need for the future. What he doesn't say is what others have said about now being the time to make the investment and plans for the next 10 to 100 years and not just talk about it.
Who is Stan? What are his credentials? Is he a recognized expert or a self appointed one?
Clearly, improving transport integration in the United States is desirable, although I would argue, based on my observations, that it is integrated much better than many people seem to think. For example, Hunt trucking and the BNSF teamed up a long time ago to optimize the benefits of trucks where they provide a better service and trains where they provide a better service.
It is all well and good to dream about some far off future. Unfortunately, as is the case with the California High Speed Rail Project, most of the dreamers don't have a clue about how to pay for it. So my question for Stan, as well as others, is this: How is a nation that is $15 trillion in debt at the federal level, with another $2.5 trillion at the state and local level, not to mention unfunded liabilities of approximately $58 trillion going to pay for the vision? Clearly, the private markets are not going to float the boat, especially for high speed rai, whatever that means, or a wild eyed integration model that is not sustainable in the market place.
Unfortunately, too many people, when they realize that the capital markets won't support their dream, look to the government (taxpayers) to lift their dream. Sometimes doing so is justified, but many times it is pouring money down the drain.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
At the Railway Age Conference Passenger Trains on Freight Railroads, the Monday luncheon address was on the subject of intercity rail competition and the creation of a national High Performance Passenger Rail program in substitution for the misnamed High Speed Rail program. If you would like to get a copy of the presentation. Shoot an e-mail to stanfeinsod@astound.net.
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