oltmannd Wouldn't do it that way. I'd bid it out. Set service levels and then let the winner set fares and keep revenue. It would give the contractor the incentive to provide good service since they'd reap the reward. Might still be a money loser, i.e. the bid winner actually gets paid instead of having to pay. But, it should lose less than the current set-up.
Wouldn't do it that way. I'd bid it out. Set service levels and then let the winner set fares and keep revenue. It would give the contractor the incentive to provide good service since they'd reap the reward.
Might still be a money loser, i.e. the bid winner actually gets paid instead of having to pay. But, it should lose less than the current set-up.
Good idea!! Why not take that to the logical conclusion: just contract out the various routes of the entire long distance service: sleepers, diner and coaches? If no takers, let that route go under.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
henry6 I wouldn't get too enthused right away that a private opreator of sleeping cars and diners would be a panacea for whatever ails Amtrak, Congress or not. Private investors could operate on the cheap with low wage labor, poor quality or amounts of food, and no amenities which, while keeping the price down would not be attractive enough to woo sleepers or diners. All that glitters is not gold....
I wouldn't get too enthused right away that a private opreator of sleeping cars and diners would be a panacea for whatever ails Amtrak, Congress or not. Private investors could operate on the cheap with low wage labor, poor quality or amounts of food, and no amenities which, while keeping the price down would not be attractive enough to woo sleepers or diners. All that glitters is not gold....
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Idea would just increase costs without bringing in more revenue . Today a car attendent can work either in coaches or in sleepers or in both. This is flexibility in work assignments. Then there is cleaning, maintenance, repair, etc.
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While this is how Amtrak handles their private cars, I don't think that this is how a pullman style service would work. Obviously, for private sleeper and diner service, there would be some sort of economies of scale aspect. There would be more than one private car being operated at a time, requiring larger facilities. A formal agreement would have to be made with Amtrak in order for them to contract out their sleeper and diner service.
That said, a private company that operates sleeper and/or service for Amtrak would be a major step in reducing Amtrak's cost on long distance trains, as well as increasing the quality of service. There would be no more arguments from the pork-exposing politicians that the taxpayer subsidizes such service for "the only people who ride it", i.e. wealthy retirees and leisure travelers.
A few other questions need to be answered:
1. How would the loss of revenue from sleeper and diner services affect a long distance train's bottom line?
2. How would private service affect sleeper fares and dining car prices?
To extrapolate: Could contracting out diner service work on shorter distance routes of 500 miles or less?
Dragoman: It was a fast random idea I had before work, so no I have not really crunched any numbers. But for an idea here are the 2007 private car rates.
"Train Mileage Fees
$2.10 per car mile.
$1.60 per car mile for additional cars moving under the same movement request or reservation. Private cars that are on the same train that have not requested to move together on a movement request will be charged the full rate of $2.10 per mile. Train Mileage Frequent Traveler Option $1.90 per mile for a single car only, which operates between the same city pair (round trip) for five trips in a calendar year. Payable up front and there will be no refund if the car does not make these trips in the same calendar year.
Overnight Parking
$100 per car, per day. This applies when a private car is at a location/facility at 12:01 am. A grace period of up to 48 hours is granted when a private car is being delivered from a foreign railroad and an exact delivery date cannot be determined. Additionally, no charge will be made at transfer points or terminals when cars are being held for the earliest connecting train or when a car remains with the consist at a turn around location.
At certain locations, such as: Denver, Kansas City and Saratoga, Amtrak does not own the parking rights at those facilities. Therefore, the car Owner/Operator must contract with the owners of those facilities directly. The following exceptions also apply to parking at several Amtrak locations:
New Orleans 20% surcharge (City of New Orleans) on the total cost of parking while in NOUPT.
Boston - $300 fee (MBTA charges) per night.
Portland - $225 fee (City of Portland charges) per night.
Monthly Parking
$2,000 per each 30 day period.
Short Term Parking
$1,500 for each month, for a minimum of a three month period.
Long Term Parking
$1,000 for each month, for a minimum of a six month period.
Car Wash
$125 will be charged only if car is washed separately from the inbound or outbound train set.
Waste Tank Service
$75 will be charged, when a private car has its septic system serviced by Amtrak. If an outside contractor performs this service, the private car Owner/Operator must arrange payment directly with the contractor and they must comply with all of Amtrak s environmental and safety regulations.
Terminal Switching Charges
When Amtrak incurs any additional costs in order to switch a private car(s), these charges will be paid by the Owner/Operator. This includes, but not limited to crews on overtime or when an additional switch crew is required.
Special Terminal Switching Charges
$250 per switch for movement to and from the following specific locations or when a separate switch
crew is not required.
Boston South Station Boston North Station
Sunnyside Yard Hudson Yard
Sunnyside Yard New Rochelle
Additional Locomotive Fee
$3.25 will be assessed per mile, when an additional locomotive is required. This fee also includes the move(s) required to position the locomotive prior to the move or to return the locomotive to its original location after the completion of a trip.
Minimum Charge
$1,000 is the minimum charge per movement.
Annual Car Administrative Fee
$250 per car will be charged each year as an administrative fee. This is a per car fee that is due at the start of each calendar year.
30 Day Past Due Balance Fees
All Owners/Operators who have an outstanding balance of over 30 days will be charged a 2% per month late fee for each 30 day period that their payment is delinquent.
Railroad Fees
Will be based on switching, parking and other related fees that are associated with the movement or storageof a private/business car that is not directly billed to the Owner by the freight railroad. These fees will beadded to the Amtrak charges and itemized accordingly on the private car billing worksheet.
Additional Assistant Conductor Fees
Will be based on crew hours paid by Amtrak where an additional Assistant Conductor is required. Fees will be determined accordingly."
schlimm: I will admit my DB is a little dated... but the idea is still the same.
bedell: Yes they are but they go under "Newrest Wagons-Lits"'. It would be interesting to even have them do it too...
Anyone know what around trip would cost, say Seattle to Chicago for 2 people?
Is Wagon Lits still operating sleepers and diners in Europe? If they are still in business after all these years, they must have figured out a way to succeed.
Your comment on Germany is not true. In Germany (and extending into other countries as well) City Night Line owns and operate the sleeping cars ans auto trains. It is a wholly-owned subsidiary of DBAG (Deutsche Bahn) and has been integrated into DBAG since 2010. The food service cars (BordBistro and BordRestaurant) I believe are also part of DBAG, although I am not certain.
Definitely and interesting concept. And yes, reflective of the Pullman Company's sleeping and parlor car services. But before we start piecemealing Amtrak apart, let's get a clearly defined and working model for Amtrak instead of the Congressionsal Lionel play set they think it is.
I bet Sam can crunch the numbers and tell you whether or not it could be profitable.
While Sam and I disagree philosophically, I never dispute the numbers.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Like a modern version of what Pullman did -- privately-owned sleepers & diners attached to the passenger trains of the operating railroad (in this case, Amtrak)?
Have you looked at the economics? Operating costs (staff + "rent" to Amtrak), plus amortization of equipment acquisition costs, vs. fares that could be charged? I think that is where the answer is to be found.
By the way, who out there knows what Amtrak charges to haul a private car? That might be a good starting place to consider.
In Germany a private company handles the sleeper cars and diners. Lets just go with the Builder, and it has what 5 sets? So about 15 sleepers and 5 diners? Really not a lot of cars...
Now not that one person could do it on there own, but maybe 3 or 4 people could each get one diner, not like it be hard to make them nicer and have better food.
Sleepers would be a bit harder to do just because of how many there are, but making them nicer is easy. I was told that the the Builder could use at least 2 more sleepers per set. He said that 99% of the time if they had the extra cars they would be be sold out too, but Amtrak don't have the cars to do it.
Any way random idea, tell me what you guys think.
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