To further the idea of getting closer to sucess I found Amtrak Apr & May performance results that have been posted. I had hoped that June ridership would be posted by today but it has not been released yet.
Amtrak showed fairly good results for these 2 months. First result figure will be Apr then May then YTD.
Revenues are up $21M for Apr and $46M for May over budget; YTD total revenue $1780M (+60M).
The net loss is - $60M & -14.8M with YTD -$65M less than budget.
Capital spending is $35M over due to ROW clearing and an undetermined amount over for the Frequency converter work at Metuchen converter station. Extra freq converter work may be a result of all the low voltage problems that have occurred on the NEC.
Load factor 55.2%, 54.5%; YTD 51%. So Amtrak finally is over the 50% load factor mark for any year.
Out of service pass fleet 11.9, 12.4, YTD 12%: Locos 16.9, 18.7, YTD 15.9 %. Indications are that the loco fleet is wearing out. There is no break down between diesels and electric motors.
Figures Vs. 2010 for Passengers; April then May all are increases except where noted.
Acela 3%, 5%, Regional 13, 10%, Short Dist 11, 15%, LD 8, 5%:
Revenue Acela 9, 13% Regional 11, 9-1/2%, SD 15, 13%: LD 13, 11% LD would have been even better except for City of NO and Builder cancellation. The Empire Builder revenue was down 50%. The Cardinal was up the most.
Car overhauls are still behind plan; Amfleet -14 from budget, -6 Superliners, -1 Surfliner, -1 Viewliner, -2 Baggage. ARRA overhauls Amfleet -5, Long Distance cars Beech Grove -4. Found an interesting item on April’s report stating that Dinner 8400 was expected to be completed by end of September. May report listed one of the Nevada destroyed wrecks coming in for overhaul so maybe other overhauls can be substituted.
FY 2011 Amtrak has replaced 114,000+ ties; CAT renewal 19.2 track miles, 7 Transformers replaced.
Fully allocated costs are measured by passenger cents/mile. Acela is +15.9, +24.8 YTD 17.8; NEC total 4.5, 8.8, YTD 2.9 cents.
Those routes meeting or exceeding fully allocated for May are: Hiawathas, Adirondack, Lynchburg, Newport News, Kansas City – STL, Piedmont -0.1 cents.
The worse routes were NH- Springfield, Hoosier, Keystone, Sunset, & Cardinal.
Best routes SD -- Lynchburg 4.1 cents/mile.
Both months delay minutes per 10,000 miles major RRs -- worse CN best BNSF.
Train delays are measured by delay minutes/ 10K miles traveled. Ethan Allen still worse train delays ( VTR +7000, CP 3500 ) NS next 2 worse for Blue Water (3500) & Pere Marquette (4000). CSX is best on its portion of NYP – Albany at only 181.
End point OT---Capitols at 95% - UP only has 470 min/10K miles delays. Worst is still Cardinal at 34% . This appears to be due to BBBr RR delays that are unable to be made up by NYP.
The short version of the BLS category, Manufacturing Sector, shows 11.7 million workers in the following subsectors, a far cry from the purported ~17 million the NAM claims:
A quick glance at that list confirms what henry was saying about losses: Leather? not many shoes or purses made in the USA anymore. Textiles? not many garments made here either besides some high end items. Consumer electronics? try to find a computer, TV or whatever made in the USA.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Paul Milenkovic oltmannd: Amtrak has a big chance right now. There is money available and support from the executive branch at a level that has never existed before. Boardman, finally, seems to have stepped up to the plate and has Amtrak engaged in a growth strategy. Even the "anti" crowd (Mica, Shuster, et. al.) are more about the "how" than the "whether". So, Amtrak better not blow it! I am worried that their internal culture is so broken that they won't be able to figure out how to dance the right dance fast enough and the economic performance of the LD trains will hang around their necks like a mill stone. High-speed baggage cars! (Sorry, Don, couldn't help myself).
oltmannd: Amtrak has a big chance right now. There is money available and support from the executive branch at a level that has never existed before. Boardman, finally, seems to have stepped up to the plate and has Amtrak engaged in a growth strategy. Even the "anti" crowd (Mica, Shuster, et. al.) are more about the "how" than the "whether". So, Amtrak better not blow it! I am worried that their internal culture is so broken that they won't be able to figure out how to dance the right dance fast enough and the economic performance of the LD trains will hang around their necks like a mill stone.
Amtrak has a big chance right now. There is money available and support from the executive branch at a level that has never existed before. Boardman, finally, seems to have stepped up to the plate and has Amtrak engaged in a growth strategy. Even the "anti" crowd (Mica, Shuster, et. al.) are more about the "how" than the "whether".
So, Amtrak better not blow it! I am worried that their internal culture is so broken that they won't be able to figure out how to dance the right dance fast enough and the economic performance of the LD trains will hang around their necks like a mill stone.
High-speed baggage cars! (Sorry, Don, couldn't help myself).
My luggage can hardly contain itself with unbridled anticipation! (oops...no...I think it's just a bad zipper.)
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
We have a high unempolyment rate in this country, more than we feel is good. We have many more unemployed who aren't even counted because they no longer receive unemployment or have otherwise given up. We have closed and left empty factories in towns and cities which can now be considered ghost towns or citys. We have had very few new manufactiromg facilities built in the past 15-20 years. What employment has shown gains is in retail establishments. A lot of employment is not in full time but rather part time at the choice of the employers and not the employees. Even not purchasing in WalMart gets you the same merchandise not made in America; try to find a store that actually specializes in made in America...you can't. Autos which are made in USA are composed of a majority of components made off shore OR the auto is made in Mexico or Canada even with the few American made parts. The same for appliances, etc. And don't give me the line that American labor pushes the price up; it is not manufacturing in mass quantities in American more than the cost of labor (that and the fact that the investor wants to make 80% of $100 rather than even 50% of $200), I don't see how anybody can tell me with a straight face or any other way, and expect me to believe that we are still the largest manufacturing country in the world. No one can convince me that is true until I see full working factories in everytown and city, every block of railroad track handling a train and every highway jammed with trucks, and nobody saying they've been looking for work for one, two, five years, whatever, and not being able to find a job offering a livable wage.
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It would be relevant if you actually answered those questions instead of ducking.
schlimm Sam1: IUnfortunately, several people missed the key point, i.e. the U.S. is still the largest manufacturing country in the world, and instead jumped on essentially irrelevant points. Perhaps it depends on what is actually being measured and the definition of manufacturing. You have missed the point, and it is is hardly irrelevant. The NAM jobs numbers (17 million) are much higher than BLS numbers (8 million). It isn't because of an error, not is it timing or methodologies. It is a case of the NAM including jobs that the BLS does not consider production and those jobs in turn represent entire sectors, that when added on give an inflated total for how much real manufacturing is going on in the US. Look at the long list of production jobs from the BLS. What manufacturing jobs are there which aren't included in that list? Some other jobs that the NAM wishes to include because the company is a member? Perhaps some corporations that belong to the NAM used to be heavily into manufacturing and now are not.? Perhaps the NAM includes final assembly of imported parts, where the American portion of value-added is relatively small, yet that final value is tabulated in the total for American manufacturing? Another important statistic is the value of exports. In 2010, the US ranked only #3 value = $1.27 trillion, trailing China, #1, value = $1.50 trillion, and Germany, #2, value = $1.34 trillion.
Sam1: IUnfortunately, several people missed the key point, i.e. the U.S. is still the largest manufacturing country in the world, and instead jumped on essentially irrelevant points.
IUnfortunately, several people missed the key point, i.e. the U.S. is still the largest manufacturing country in the world, and instead jumped on essentially irrelevant points.
Perhaps it depends on what is actually being measured and the definition of manufacturing. You have missed the point, and it is is hardly irrelevant. The NAM jobs numbers (17 million) are much higher than BLS numbers (8 million). It isn't because of an error, not is it timing or methodologies. It is a case of the NAM including jobs that the BLS does not consider production and those jobs in turn represent entire sectors, that when added on give an inflated total for how much real manufacturing is going on in the US. Look at the long list of production jobs from the BLS. What manufacturing jobs are there which aren't included in that list? Some other jobs that the NAM wishes to include because the company is a member? Perhaps some corporations that belong to the NAM used to be heavily into manufacturing and now are not.? Perhaps the NAM includes final assembly of imported parts, where the American portion of value-added is relatively small, yet that final value is tabulated in the total for American manufacturing?
Another important statistic is the value of exports. In 2010, the US ranked only #3 value = $1.27 trillion, trailing China, #1, value = $1.50 trillion, and Germany, #2, value = $1.34 trillion.
If you are going to quote me, you should have used the whole message and not take a bit of it out of context. Here is what I wrote:
I have withdrawn the NAM numbers regarding manufacturing employment and compensation. Unfortunately, several people missed the key point, i.e. the U.S. is still the largest manufacturing country in the world, and instead jumped on essentially irrelevant points.
Suffice it to say that the differences between the BLS statistics, which deal only with employment, and the NAM numbers are mostly a function of timing, categorization, location, and the statistical methodologies used by the BLS.
Please note the reference to implied differences in timing, categorization, location, etc. between NAM and BLS where relevant. If you don't accept the NAM figures, which appear to stem from a difference classification system, that is your option. The NAM figures are for 2008 and 2009. I am comfortable with them.
Sam1 IUnfortunately, several people missed the key point, i.e. the U.S. is still the largest manufacturing country in the world, and instead jumped on essentially irrelevant points.
oltmannd Amtrak has a big chance right now. There is money available and support from the executive branch at a level that has never existed before. Boardman, finally, seems to have stepped up to the plate and has Amtrak engaged in a growth strategy. Even the "anti" crowd (Mica, Shuster, et. al.) are more about the "how" than the "whether". So, Amtrak better not blow it! I am worried that their internal culture is so broken that they won't be able to figure out how to dance the right dance fast enough and the economic performance of the LD trains will hang around their necks like a mill stone.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
henry6 I would almost agree with you, blue, except that things are different today. If Amtrak is sabatoged this time around it won't be by some calculated politics to destroy it out of hand but rather by an ignorant and stubborn Tea Party movement that is against spending any money for anything without studying the reasons for something and the consequences of defunding it.
I would almost agree with you, blue, except that things are different today. If Amtrak is sabatoged this time around it won't be by some calculated politics to destroy it out of hand but rather by an ignorant and stubborn Tea Party movement that is against spending any money for anything without studying the reasons for something and the consequences of defunding it.
Henry6: Thanks I did not consider the "tea party" influence and the idea that every federal program except defense is bad. Is it still the law that any route discontinuance has to be posted 180 days before the cancellation? 1.80 days from today is Jan 2012 an election year
schlimm I don't think the question of loss of manufacturing jobs and whole industrial segments domestically is a settled matter, but your point is taken. However, you missed two of my points; one, concerning the number of jobs in the two categories used by BLS vs what appears to be a much larger number from NAM; and two, your contention that the BLS was including farm, etc. workers in the category of Production. It certainly does not. And since you made a point (Compensation), it is hardly our job to assume you made it mistakenly, especially when you reiterated it, but rather to show the large difference between compensation and wages/salaries, so that there can be no confusion.
I don't think the question of loss of manufacturing jobs and whole industrial segments domestically is a settled matter, but your point is taken. However, you missed two of my points; one, concerning the number of jobs in the two categories used by BLS vs what appears to be a much larger number from NAM; and two, your contention that the BLS was including farm, etc. workers in the category of Production. It certainly does not.
And since you made a point (Compensation), it is hardly our job to assume you made it mistakenly, especially when you reiterated it, but rather to show the large difference between compensation and wages/salaries, so that there can be no confusion.
I did not miss your points. I did not feel any need to comment on them.
The problem with Amtrak is that it is not a business run in the same form as business. It is a service under the direction (thumb) of the Congress of the US and therefore cannot be compared to or expected to adhere to normal business practices but rather conform to the whims of politics and politicians. Unless it is set free as Conrail was you cannot expect anything different.
blue streak 1 The question becomes “Is AMTRAK becoming a victim of its approach toward success?” First a small primer on its history. 1. Amtrak formed May 1 1971. 2. Trains starting to get cancelled due to equipment shortages mid 1970s (Lakeshore [money]; Miamian, Champion & Silver Meteor combined, Mountaineer, 3. National Limited gets Amfleet and HEP heritage sleepers. 4. Congress in spring 1979 mandated restructuring with cuts effective Oct 1. National Limited ( was showing much progress with thru cars to LAX), Champion, Hilltopper, Floridian, Lone Star ( another with promise) , NC HIA. 5. Fall 1981 Restructuring eliminates many trains including Black Hawk, Cardinal, Shenandoah, Beacon Hill, Blue Ridge, Inter American Houston section, Terrible dinning car service reductions begins. 6. All this late 1970s when Superliners and Amfleet cars coming in large numbers. Also HEP added to Heritage cars. 7. 1986 Funding cuts Crescent to tri-weekly ATL – New Orleans, Palmetto weekends only. 8. Do not have dates but funding cuts discontinued not in any particular order Broadway limited, Pennsylvanian west of Pittsburgh Florida service, Inland service BOS – NH, Second PHL – Pittsburgh - CHI, Riley, Palmetto SAV – MIA, Desert Wind & Pioneer, (The combined train with Cal Z east of Salt Lake city was near break even), Down to 1 train (SW Limited) on transcon, and others. 9. The funding cuts and restrictions seem to have caused a premature retirement of HEP modified Heritage sleepers and coaches that may have been used to maintain some routes if interiors refurbished. The aborted effort to diner lite was certainly an effort to drive away passengers. Now to the present We enter the Boardman era and Fred Frailey’s post that Boardman has planned well for when money is available seems to have much merit. 10. The down payments for both the additional single level cars and the new electric motors have been added into the April monthly performance report (funding for motors now guaranteed by FRA). The total ARRA dedicated funds and regular funds for upgrading the NEC electric system voltage problems has proven to be much higher than originally forecast but that certainly will increase the on time reliability especially for NJ Transit and Amtrak NYP – PHL. 10a. Now we are in FY 2011 and Amtrak has ridership increasing on all routes except those that have been subject to the various weather delays. May over last year +8.1% and FY +6.7%. Especially improved are Lynchburg and Newport News with both nearly doubling and meeting avoidable costs. Good performers Carolinian, Piedmonts, & Auto Train. June ridership figures should be available soon 11. ACELA is showing very positive numbers and with the order for 40 additional cars to add to present Acela train sets ( + 130 seats per train set) has a very good chance of being very positive. NEC ridership is also up 10 % for May month and may also beat avoidable costs. The additional single level baggage-dorms and sleepers that are now on order will allow for an average of one additional sleeper car on each single level train with a net increase of approximately 42 sleeper passenger spaces on each single level train. (assuming 13 Roomettes + 3 Bedrooms with 2 person average per room and 10 persons into available space now taken by off duty crew). The new single level cars will allow 125 MPH operation on the NEC for trains equipped with these cars, + Viewliners, and Dinners 12. IMHO it appears that there is real worry by Amtrak opponents that Amtrak will approach success close enough that too many voters will want it to continue and expand. These opponents appear to be trying to strangle Amtrak before that happens? 13. All the above examples seem to point out that every 5 – 10 years throttling down Amtrak is proposed just as Amtrak seems to be on a very successful rise. The additional cars that are necessary for real service have always been out of reach. 14. Opponents might just shoot themselves in the foot if the sudden release of long distance equipment into corridor trips allowed the pent up demand for short haul seats to be was satisfied. Imagine 14 car Lynchburg or Newport news trains. Unfortunately doing away with LD trains would kill the LD station infrastructure which I do not advocate. 15. If once the corridors to Richmond - Newport News/ Norfolk; Lynchburgh; Chi - St.Louis Wash succeed then demand for AMTRAK on other routes may increase exponentially? Note: the Capitol corridors & San Diego - Santa Barbara California growth is maybe still looked upon by the rest of the country as "well that is just CA"?? But if I were an opponent it would worry me very much.
I doubt whether there are many "antis" who hate Amtrak "just because" and would be disappointed with a successful Amtrak. If Amtrak can grow it's way into being predominantly a corridor service provider, the red ink of the LD trains might not draw so much attention.
It seems Amtrak has at least a punchers chance.
Sorry. It seems that happens on almost any post dealing with improved passenger service, even when no one is recommending it for here (the Chinese HSR threads). The naysayers throw out all the financial problems and idiots like me fall into the trap of responding.
It is rather disappointing that posts on this subject strayed so far. I notice that some topics that have real merit in and of themselves get hijacked into financial matters. Lets have the financial items separate topics!
You are correct. The BLS does list wages and salaries for manufacturing workers. I did not drill down far enough.
In my original post you, as well as several others, missed a key point. The post does not say that the average compensation for hourly workers is $74 thousand plus. I just re-read the NAM figure. It is presumably an average for everyone in U.S. manufacturing. That would include managers, supervisors, etc.
Some of the occupations that you listed, e.g. baker, laundry workers, etc. don't fit my definition of manufacturing. Whether they fit NAM's definition is unknown. I have sent an email to NAM asking them for the types of manufacturing companies that are amongst their membership.
Again, however, you missed the point. My original point was to counter the argument that the U.S.'s manufacturing busines is insignificant or most of it has been lost to overseas entities. I subsequently stated that it was a mistake to list the average compensation package for manufacturing companies that are NAM members. I should have know that you or someone would have missed the key point and focused instead on a relatively inconsequencial point. I will be more careful in the future not to raise hot buttons.
Just again goes to show how statistics can so easily be partially understood & misunderstood -- and never fully understood unless you know the details of how the statistics were gathered (precisely what questions were asked, how, when, where, of whom) and how the results were grouped and tabulated, etc., etc. Also must consider who is doing the asking -- somehow, the sponsoring entity always seems to come up with statistics supportive of whatever position they are taking.
Similarly with Sam1's statement that the U.S. is still the largest manufacturing country in the world, according to the National Association of Manufacturers. Maybe believable if we are talking dollar-volume, because we seem to have moved to producing a low volume of small, high-value items, having left mass-production of high-volume low-cost items to others. Also, there is the definitional issue henry6 brings up -- US final assemblyof largely-foreign-manufactured components
These distinctions has great implications for transport (as well as for employment).
And, I'd still like to hear more discussion on blue streak 1's original question -- is there a pattern of cutting Amtrak off at the knees, just as it starts to get on its feet?
schlimm Phoebe Vet: "Their compensation packages average $74,447 per year."? Do you seriously believe that? Phoebe Vet: I don't and I hope no one else is gulled. I have a post on the General site about the Beijing-Shanghai HSR. The key numbers are that mean wages and salaries are about $49K. The number sam1 uses (from the manufacturers' trade association) is "Total Compensation" which includes benefits. In the manufacturing sector, bennies = about 34% of total comp., pay = about 66%. So when sam1 says $74447, that is accurate, but misleading if you don't read the numbers carefully. That is how they can throw around numbers in that sector that appear about 50% higher than what most of us know to be prevailing wages. Also, purchasing agents much higher salaries are included with manufacturing, which raise the average. And the total employed numbers the trade assoc. states are much higher than either of the BLS statistics.
Phoebe Vet: "Their compensation packages average $74,447 per year."? Do you seriously believe that?
"Their compensation packages average $74,447 per year."?
Do you seriously believe that?
Phoebe Vet: I don't and I hope no one else is gulled. I have a post on the General site about the Beijing-Shanghai HSR. The key numbers are that mean wages and salaries are about $49K. The number sam1 uses (from the manufacturers' trade association) is "Total Compensation" which includes benefits. In the manufacturing sector, bennies = about 34% of total comp., pay = about 66%. So when sam1 says $74447, that is accurate, but misleading if you don't read the numbers carefully. That is how they can throw around numbers in that sector that appear about 50% higher than what most of us know to be prevailing wages. Also, purchasing agents much higher salaries are included with manufacturing, which raise the average. And the total employed numbers the trade assoc. states are much higher than either of the BLS statistics.
The NAM is a trade organization. It has 11,000 manufacturers throughout the country. Its members, for the most part, make stuff as opposed to growing it, catching it, and processing it. Accordingly, the difference in the compensation data reported by NAM and BLS lies in the fact that they are reporting for different entities.
My former employer, which is the largest investor owned electric utility in North America, is a member of NAM. The compensation figures presented by NAM square with the compensation packages of production employees in the electric utility industry. In fact, they are very much in line with the numbers for heavy industry.
Again, my key point was missed. In retrospect, I should have left the employment and compensation numbers out of my post. It has become an unnecessary flash point. The U.S. is not out of the manufacturing business. In fact, it remains the largest manufacturing nation in the world. Taken alone, as I said, it would be the 9th largest economy in the world.
I have withdrawn the NAM number regarding manufacturing employment and compensation. Unfortunately, several people missed the key point, i.e. the U.S. is still the largest manufacturing country in the world, and instead jump on essentially irrelevant points.
Suffice it to say that the differences between the BLS statistics, which deal only with employment and the NAM numbers, are mostly a function of timing, categorization, location, and the statistical methodologies used by the BLS.
Phoebe Vet "Their compensation packages average $74,447 per year."? Do you seriously believe that?
Yes, but instead of LA to NY it will be New Orleans to NY or whatever. There will be route changes, routes going out of existance unless passengers ride the rails instead of freight. Not that passenger service in many parts will rival freight. It just that things will change and thinking will change.
henry6 Yeah, but still...with the new and improved Panama Canal there will be major traffic shifts again, too. But you two, at least, know what I mean.
Yeah, but still...with the new and improved Panama Canal there will be major traffic shifts again, too. But you two, at least, know what I mean.
Even if there is a shift of traffic from the West Coast to Atlantic & Gulf ports,those boxes are still going to have to move inland, either on steel wheels or rubber tires...
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Define "manufacturing". Do you mean we take parts made offshore and make an item? Do you mean making parts and sending them offshore to man an item? If manufacturing is such a big thing why are there ghost towns, empty and decrepit factory buildings? Why are companies looking for ways to cut the number of employees and our unemployment figures so high? The only things being made in America is profits for the companies and rewards for the managers.
The AAR is reporting carloadings up virtually weekly, yes, but without definition. I suspect a lot is intermodal shore to shore and trailers and containers that used to be hauled over the road; so there is no real net gain in freight moved by all transportation modes. Statistics are wonderful, you can tell any story you want, jump to any conclusion you want, assume anything you want with them. But you must add, subtract, divide, multiply, inerpolate, transpose, and guess on your own in order to come out with the whole truth.
I guess the National Association of Manufacturers is using some very different numbers.
Referring to the BLS'S OCCUPATIONAL EMPLOYMENT AND WAGES -- MAY 2010, the numbers are rather different. Out of 127,097,160 employed in all occupations surveyed: Production occupations (their category for manufacturing) the number is 8,236,340, with a median hourly rate of $14.58 and a mean annual earnings of $33,770. This group is not even in the top 10 categories (by numbers of workers) of occupations in the US.
henry6 And why not? If the economy fails because all manufacturing is done off shore the only thing left to move on rails will be people!
And why not? If the economy fails because all manufacturing is done off shore the only thing left to move on rails will be people!
This is a post that I made on another thread regarding American manufacturing. It is worth copying here:
The U.S. is still the largest manufacturing country in the world. According to the National Association of Manufacturers, the U.S. share of world manufacturing in 2010 was just over 21%, which is about where it was in 1995. It has hovered around 20% of the world total since 1982. Manufacturing in the U.S. has increased every year since 1982, except for the recessionary years of 1990-91, 2000-01, and 2007-08.
The Japanese account for approximately 12% of the world's manufacturing, down from 21% in 1995. Chinese manufacturing represents 15% of the world total, up from approximately 4% in 1995.
The value of U.S. manufacturing grew from approximately $875 billion in 1995 to approximately $1.6 trillion in 2010. Taken alone U.S. manufacturing would be the 9thlargest economy in the world.
And export coal
Maybe so, henry, but right a major portion of today's freight business is hauling overseas containers, along with bulk shipments for domestic use and export.
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