I'm not as up-to-date on this as I should be but my sister-in-law who lives in Pueblo West told me last night about the current controversy surrounding Denver Union Station. From what I gather, it seems as if the city wants to try to turn it into some sort of mass transit center (BAD, bad idea) while the NARP group out there obviously wants to save it as a intercity/commuter rail facility only (good idea IMHO). What I'm not sure of is who actually owns Denver Union Station and what is Amtrak's stance on all this. Also, do the freight RRs that serve Denver (BNSF and UP) have a stake in all this as well?
Los Angeles Rams Guy I'm not as up-to-date on this as I should be but my sister-in-law who lives in Pueblo West told me last night about the current controversy surrounding Denver Union Station. From what I gather, it seems as if the city wants to try to turn it into some sort of mass transit center (BAD, bad idea) while the NARP group out there obviously wants to save it as a intercity/commuter rail facility only (good idea IMHO). What I'm not sure of is who actually owns Denver Union Station and what is Amtrak's stance on all this. Also, do the freight RRs that serve Denver (BNSF and UP) have a stake in all this as well?
Looking to the future, I'm not sure there's going to be enough commuter rail traffic or Amtrak service to justify keeping the old station building for heavy-rail alone. Sometimes an older train station is preserved for other uses and part of it can be used as a depot. But historic preservation is a tricky, long, involved process as you probably know.
As for who owns the structure, there are many possibilities. Does the Denver area still publish a daily paper? Their transportation writer would probably know.
I am more curious about why using the old RR station as a transit center-point (or Intermodal facility; buses and LRV) would be a "BAD, bad idea."
If I understand what I've been told/informed of correctly, the transformation of Denver Union Station into a multi-modal transit center would effectively knock Amtrak out of Union Station; not to mention any future commuter service along the front range. That's why it's a bad idea. Hopefully Colorail's lawsuit will stop it from happening.
The wording of some of the news reports, including the one on Trains.com News Wire, were confusing. The problem is that light rail would be moved to a building two blocks west of the station, Amtrak and commuter rail would not have enough capacity, not to mention several conflicts of interest concerning the environmental study.
Washington DC Union Station was redeveloped into a mall with a somewhat smaller yet still functional concourse for trains, for example.
To be used to their best extent, it's usually a good idea to keep the various modes of transit near one another. If the extant RR tracks leading into the Old Union Station are still there, the only way of getting rid of them would be to push them somewhere else -- even two blocks can be a rough transfer. Ironically, if Union Station is going to be torn down because the center city is booming, pushing away Amtrak and commuter service would keep a generally well-heeled traveler out of that middle -- and the many shops.
I wonder who has considered expanding (or moving) some of the light-rail tracks underground (expensive, but cheaper than undergrounding heavy-rail). Take Washington Union Station. There is a mall, there are Amtrak and suburban transit district trains, but downstairs is the Metro. So instead of something like a two-block wall we have a more vertical transfer between modes of transportation. Much more logical, at least in their case.
I suspect in this case the pro-heavy rail proponents are not on the same page politically as the pro-push-back-the-track proponents. But I don't know any details. - a.s.
Slight correction, the Metro at Union Station is indeed down the stairs but not part of the building. It's a separate, underground "building" beside it.
Here's a really neat picture:
http://chnm.gmu.edu/metro/popup/union73.html
Curiously enough, the basement of Union Station doesn't have any rail services (or access) at all. It's a food court that appears to be converted from some other purpose to be honest. I have to dig up old photos to be sure. Funny you even have to go back upstairs and then downstairs again to reach the Metro even though it's 15 feet on the other side of the terminal's basement wall.
aegrotatio Slight correction, the Metro at Union Station is indeed down the stairs but not part of the building. It's a separate, underground "building" beside it. Here's a really neat picture: http://chnm.gmu.edu/metro/popup/union73.html . . . . [remainder edited]
. . . . [remainder edited]
Thank you for pointing out my error. - a.s.
al-in-chgo Looking to the future, I'm not sure there's going to be enough commuter rail traffic or Amtrak service to justify keeping the old station building for heavy-rail alone. Sometimes an older train station is preserved for other uses and part of it can be used as a depot. But historic preservation is a tricky, long, involved process as you probably know.
The building consists of a 3 story central hall facing east with 2 story north and south wings. The wings appear to be rented to non-railroad concerns.
Amtrak by itself can not afford to support the central structure; it is far more than is needed for a 2 train a day operation. The current light rail/bus station is just to the west of the station, and there is an underground tunnel to reach the various individual rails.
Amtrak only needs one of those tracks (the eastbound and westbound Zephyrs are 12 hours apart). and I ended up very puzzled as to why the station isn't used by all 3 services.
The main hall, looking west:
Last winter while riding #6, I had time during the station stop to take a peek inside the waiting room. I should have stayed in my slpr. Not impressed at all. Dirty, dingy, more or less depressing culture, some homeless person giving psgrs a bad time, lots of unused room. Certainly a improvement to the property needs to take place.
The picture above was taken about 11am on a Sunday morning. The only people in the depot were the Amtrak clerk, a security guard and myself. A young couple wandered through a few minutes later.
Dakguy201 The picture above was taken about 11am on a Sunday morning. The only people in the depot were the Amtrak clerk, a security guard and myself. A young couple wandered through a few minutes later.
Does that terminal have any activity besides one Amtrak a day each way? - a.s.
I believe there are four intercity bus routes that stop at the station; most have 2 busses a day. There are the unrelated businesses in the north and south wings.
There was a departure board for the Ski Train still up, although that equipment has been sold and has left Denver.
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