One of the arguments for high speed rail was that there are plenty of people in southern Nevada who would like to get out of Sin City and head to California for some non-casino vacation time at the beach, mountains or amusement parks.
While both states fiddle, Southwest Airlines keeps adding flights.
I'm wondering if a special L.A. to Vegas train that ran selected dates could get around Amtrak's monopoly on L-D travel.
I'm also thinking that if there were a way for a Los Angeles - Las Vegas train to make money, Vega$$ would have figured it out already. Most of the (UP) line is in California, so the idea of planning such a train along the lines of a "drinkers and smokers and gamblers' express" might not hold. Ditto the Bay Area to Reno, where our experience was that when the weekend hits, most of the recent arrivals seem to be from California. Let the smoking begin!
If you think a state law-enforcement agency can't raid a train, think again. I don't recall the date, but sometime in the late Seventies - early Eighties Kansas officials raided the lounge on the Southwest Chief. (It may still have been called the Southwest Limited back then.)
I'm not trying to throw cold water on the subject. I think a train for drinkers, smokers and gamblers would be highly useful, even though I don't drink much and I rarely gamble . - a. s.
I've seen a few responses about the whole Vegas train issue where many suggest to simply bring back the Desert Wind. While I'd love to see this, a rebirth of the Desert Wind wouldn't be the right choice for an LA-Vegas train.
The Desert Wind was a great connection to Denver. I took it many times and would love to take it now to get to Denver. But it never had enough coach capacity and the schedule was all wrong for dedicated Vegas traffic. Any business it did get from Vegas patronage was a small benefit to it's very meager bottom line. Looking back to my many journeys on the train, very few of the passengers were taking it just to get to Vegas. I never did. The train did stop at Vegas for an extended period allowing passengers to get off the train and gamble for a while. But it was more of a novelty then a reason to take the train.
Another thing though that I think is very important is unfortunately the Desert Wind ended a few years prematurely. The Vegas we know of today (#1 tourist destination) was nowhere as popular back when the Wind came to town. Ironically it seemed Vegas took off all of a sudden right after the Wind was cancelled So perhaps things would be a lot different today if the Wind lasted just a few more years.
The best solution, and one that we came very close to getting, is a dedicated commuter type setup. The first idea was a Talgo inspired train, and the trainsets were actually ready to go. But in more recent times a Surfliner type trainset (double decker) now appears to be the best option. However UP of course wants no part of it unless substantial portions of the tracks past Dagget are double tracked and passing sidings are greatly increased. Thus no Vegas train any time soon. Even though Amtrak pres Kummant says they'll look into a Vegas train, it's not happening without the substantial track work that UP says is needed to avoid major delays. And more importantly, trackwork that no one wants to pay for.
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
n012944 wrote: Chafford1 wrote: There is a project to do exactly this: http://www.desertxpress.com/need.php So let me get this straight, I am going to drive from LA to Victorville, get out of my car, and get on a train? I don't know about most people but if I have driven that far, I am just going to keep going in my car. Sounds to me like it is doomed to fail.
Chafford1 wrote: There is a project to do exactly this: http://www.desertxpress.com/need.php
There is a project to do exactly this:
http://www.desertxpress.com/need.php
So let me get this straight, I am going to drive from LA to Victorville, get out of my car, and get on a train? I don't know about most people but if I have driven that far, I am just going to keep going in my car. Sounds to me like it is doomed to fail.
To have any hope of working the southern terminus has to be in San Bernardino at the very least., and add:
I-15 has some very severe grades for a car, let alone rail, maybe thats a cog train their planning.
What happens when they reach the mountain passes just before the Ca-Nev border, there barely enough room for the twisty highway and its a 6% grade down to the basin, do you like roller coasters?
Who pays for all the overpasses that will need to be rebuilt.
Existing properties along the ROW next to the highways? just tell them to 'go away' ?
Any proposed rail system would be far better served by negotiating with UP to build a seperate dedicated ROW next to or near the existing UP ROW.
Have fun with your trains
An "expensive model collector"
It was not that long ago that Amtrak had one of the Talgo trains built specifically for Los Angeles - Las Vegas service and the UP nixed that by throwing so many stumbling blocks in the way of Amtrak they finally gave up and utilized the Las Vegas set of equipment in the Northwest corridor with the rest of the Talgos.
UP was not about to let another Desert Wind operate over their tracks.
With the four largest Casinos in Southern California receiving approval from the voters last to more than triple their size you can bet the Casino owners in Las Vegas are going to take a serious look at high speed rail to Vegas fron Southern California.
From Stockton I can fly for $80.00 each way in 1 hour forty miinutes to Vegas and receive free dinner and half price room Monday to Thursday. Amtrak can''t come close to matching that. Amtrak routes passengers via the San Joaquin down the Valley to Bakersfield and then transfers them to a Bus for the trip to Vegas that takes all day.
Union Pacific doesn't want it operating on their freight corridor, and any high speed rail proposal is just pie-in-the-sky because there is no funding for it, public or private .
Let's not forget the environmentalist whackos that will oppose and sue to stop any additional rail lines that might offend a scrub weed, an insect or a tortoise.
Too slow, and airfares are still cheaper.
Even given the often horrendous traffic on the highway, its still faster than taking the train because theres so much freight traffic coming thru Cajon canyon it often really delayed the Desert Wind when it was running.
Airfares are still kept artificially low to keep the traffic flowing on the airlines like Southwest. Thats a tremendous market and they are not going to give it up to anyone.
The only way rail service between LA and Lost Wages would really work would be a dedicated ROW for a non-stop HST type system, if such a system could be built that could wisk travelers in about 2 hours (takes about that long parking lot to parking lot by air), for about the same price as Southwest (for the mass market), it would work, but at that price it would have to be heavily subsidized. Or offer a mix, mass market no frills service at Southwest prices, and Premium service where you get an Orient Express like service for your 2 hr commute. That premium price would help offset costs. But it would still need subsidation. Theres no self paying commuter rail system anywhere in the world.
Subsidies aside, the biggest problem with this idea is the actual building of the tracks. Where do you put it? How do you get the land? Ever had to get an EIR for a project? It would be tremendously expensive to build today, which would be hotly contested by every NIMBY, BANANA, CART, PETA, ELF and yahoo from downtown LA to the Strip.
There would probably be a good market for a weekend-only LA-Lost Wages operation since the hotel/casinos fill up primarily from Friday through Sunday.
I was wondering why there is no train from los angeles to las vegas anymore? Is it becuase of all the freight? Seems to me there would be a money maker with the high price of gas these days. Does anybody know the real reason?
glenn
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