Ther are some factors not considered in any of the arguments I have read about the Sunset. On at least three different occasions I have tried to make advance reservations on this train and by advance I mean three months at least. In all cases I tried to make deluxe sleeping car reservations and was told on all three occasions all sleeping car accommodation was sold out. I was not to happy with the idea of taking a coach across the country. I decided I would anyway because anything is better than flying and I would not even consider a bus. Well much to my surprise I was able to purchase the sleeping car space shortly after leaving LA on all three occasions. I don't believe that that space cancelled at the last minute on all three occasions especially during prime travel periods in all instances. I have had the same thing happen on the Coast Starlight at least a dozen times and on numerous other Amtrak long distance trains. Amtrak needs to get there reservation desk in order and I have also found there is a shortage of sleeping cars on all Amtrak long distance trains. I have never had a reservation problem with Via Rail Canada and the food service on the Canadian is superior to anything on today's Amtrak.
If we are going to operate passenger trains then let's put some real money behind it and see what we can do. There is no reason to believe that we cannot operate World class trains and it is certainly time to invest in highspeed rail especially in states like California, Ohio, Texas, and other corridors and if the airlines can't stand up to the competion than maybe it is time for them to go the way of the DoDo birds on those routes.
I'm really disturbed about Passenger's tale of the Sunset routinely being sold out in sleeping spaces on the computer and then his finding that in fact space is available.
I understand why that could occur, but from his experience it would seem to be routine. I wonder how much money if being left on the table due to last minute cancellations. Should Amtrak impose a substantial penalty for last minute cancellations? If this is a daily problem, that would make a lot of sense.
daveklepper wrote: A recent article in THE JERUSALEM POST quoted a Continental Airlines executive as stating that NO USA AIRLINE IS SHOWING A PROFIT OR EVEN BREAKING EVEN ON DOMESTIC USA ROUTES!
A recent article in THE JERUSALEM POST quoted a Continental Airlines executive as stating that NO USA AIRLINE IS SHOWING A PROFIT OR EVEN BREAKING EVEN ON DOMESTIC USA ROUTES!
Well that is not true. Southwest posts profits year after year on nothing but domestic service.
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 wrote: daveklepper wrote: A recent article in THE JERUSALEM POST quoted a Continental Airlines executive as stating that NO USA AIRLINE IS SHOWING A PROFIT OR EVEN BREAKING EVEN ON DOMESTIC USA ROUTES!Well that is not true. Southwest posts profits year after year on nothing but domestic service.
Southwest Airlines had an operating profit of $838 million, with net income of $590 million, for the four quarters ended October 31, 2007. However, they are not the only U.S. carrier that made money on domestic operations. Other domestic or largely domestic carriers, e.g. AirTrans, Air Wisconsin, American Eagle, etc. had solid operating profits. In fact, most of the carriers had a positive return on their domestic operations, although the big carriers had a better return on their international operations.
In the case of the large carriers, it is frequently difficult to determine how much they cleared on domestic operations because of the trips that combine a domestic and international leg.
U.S. passenger airlines with annual revenues of more than $20 million did pretty well in 2007. For the four quarters ended October 31, 2007, these carriers had net operating profits of $7.4 billion on operating revenues of $130.9 billion. They realized a combined net income of $4.6 billion.
Operating profits were 5.7 per cent of revenues or sales, whilst net income was 3.5 per cent of revenues. These margins are slim when compared to many businesses, but they are solid for the airline business, which has always operated with razor thin margins. It is the nature of the business.
Had it not been for an extraordinary net income loss at Comair ($479 million), the country's largest carriers would have realized net income of $5.1 billion or 3.9 per cent of revenues. The extraordinary item was related to Comair's crash in Ohio.
The average operating revenue per passenger was $193.04, whilst the average operating cost was $182.10, leaving an average operating profit of $10.94 per passenger.
The average per passenger federal subsidy for the airlines, using NARP's figures, many of which are suspect, was $8.63 before adjustment for questionable items, i.e. those that cannot be verified. After adjustment for questionable items, the subsidy, again using NARP's figures, was $6.81.
The average per passenger federal airline subsidy using the latest government figures is $4.35. The major difference in the numbers is attributable to the fact that NARP fails to differentiate between general aviation and commercial aviation, or its claims that the airlines benefit from basic military and space research without offering any evidence to support its claim. .
Assuming the worse case scenario, i.e. the subsidy was $8.63 per passenger; the airlines would still have had an average operating profit of $2.31 per passenger. Applying NARP's numbers after adjustment for questionable items leaves the airlines with an average operating profit of $4.13 per passenger. Using the subsidy calculated by a review of the most recent governmental information leaves the airlines with an average operating return of $6.59 per passenger.
Even after backing out the identifiable federal subsidies to airlines, they still made money in 2007.
daveklepper wrote:appreciate the information. What about food for coach passsengers? Was the Continental man's statement correct?
Several airlines offer a "buy on board" type meal service. It is a box lunch that are sold once in the air. I have not flown Continental in many years, so I do not know if they do something different than that.
n012944 wrote: daveklepper wrote:appreciate the information. What about food for coach passsengers? Was the Continental man's statement correct?Several airlines offer a "buy on board" type meal service. It is a box lunch that are sold once in the air. I have not flown Continental in many years, so I do not know if they do something different than that.
I few from Portand, Oregon to Houston on Continental about a year ago. They served the coach passengers a small ham and cheese sandwich, a small bag of chips, an apple, and choice of drink, e.g. coffee, coke, water, etc.
Yesterday I flew from Austin to Dallas on American Airlines. Passengers could buy a sandwich for $5.00; they could buy some snacks for $3.00; they could buy a beer or wine for $4.00 or $5.00. Coffee, a soft drink, water, etc. were offered for free.
As one who spent a lifetime traveling, I can tell you that airline food has never been very good. In fact, after the first couple of meals, I planned my trips so that I could eat in a good restaurant before the flight or after arrival.
Dakguy201 wrote: I'm really disturbed about Passenger's tale of the Sunset routinely being sold out in sleeping spaces on the computer and then his finding that in fact space is available.
This is a common risk on the Empire Builder. I thought about booking to Seattle two months from now last week, one leg of the sleeper was open, one was booked solid. The agent told me they "often" open up. I didn't want to take the risk. The airline got my business on that one simply because, even with substantial advance notice, Amtrak won't schedule the capacity for its ridership. How many changed their plans as I did?
I had one experience way back when in not being able to book a sleeper space on the Gulf Wind between Jacksonville and New Orleans. I flew, and the flight for some reason was diverted to Mobile. I spent most of the night in the Mobile airport before flying to New Orleans. I was not in the best of shape for my New Orleans client meeting and had to pay for the hotel room I didn't use in New Orleans. That taught me a lesson. Any time I planned on a train trip and sleeper space was not available, I settled for coach. And on every single subsequent occasion except one (Washington - NY overnight on the Federal drop sleeper), I was able to upgrade to a sleeper accomodation.
My taking the Federal coach to NY wasn't too terrible, since I was living in NY, could get a few hours sleep in my east 16th Street apartment, and call in to say I'd be a little late at the office.
"I know the price of everything and the value of nothing".........
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