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$11 billion later, high speed rail in US drags along
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<p>[quote user="schlimm"]</p> <p>OK, you didn't miss the point but seem to be muddying them.</p> <p>[quote user="Sam1"]</p> <p>1. People who want to refute this notion claim that the carriers are only able to make money because they don't pay for the infrastructure that they use. That's not true. Whether they pay their fair share is arguable. My point is that the taxes paid by the airport vendors, as well as the support providers, probably offset any so-called subsidies for the airlines. Moreover, the airlines, as well as bus companies and cruise ship lines, don't receive direct cash subsidies from anyone. Only passenger rail requires a direct cash subsidy.</p> <p>2. <span>The bottom line (profit) is a score card for a commercial activity. It helps drive efficiency. Without it there is little incentive to be at the top of your game. If it is not important, why did the Japanese and French work so diligently to turn a profit on their high speed lines and, subsequently, spin them off into market based companies?</span></p> <p>[/quote]</p> <p>1. When people say the airlines don't pay for infrastructure, they mean they do not come close to paying fully for the costs of the portion they use. What collateral components pay in taxes is a red herring.</p> <p>2. Those privatized HSR networks do not pay to cover the infrastructure costs, so they turn a profit on operations. But in the NEC, the model of what Amtrak should be, operating expenses are more than covered. As far as I can see, infrastructure should be built and maintained by a quasi-government agency. Operations should be contracted out to bidding operators. Some services will require subsidies to operate, probably from states and federal sources. [/quote]</p> <p>Oh, muddying them! Another put down! If people disagree with you, it is because they don't understand or they are muddying the issue. What a wonderful way to promote discussion, which is the objective of these forums.</p> <p>Having the government build infrastructure is fine. But the users should pay for it. Historically, this has been the case. The government recovered the cost of the transcontinental railroads, as an example, from the users. And until 2007 it recovered the cost of the Interstate Highway System from the users. Since 2007 it has required an infusion of funds from the general fund because the politicians have refused to raise the user fees (fuel taxes, etc.) to cover the cost of maintaining and expanding the system. </p> <p>Where are the support numbers for your points 1 and 2? Many people make the claim, but few if any have come up with good numbers. Here is one of the reasons.</p> <p>To determine the source of the revenues for each of the nation's 547 airports served by commercial air, one would have to first pull the financials for each of them. I have looked at all the financial reports for the airports in Texas. None of them set out in the financials the source of their revenues, i.e. commercial air carriers, air taxis, general aviation, military operations, etc. The reporting authority has the information, but it does not, as a rule, publish it in the annual financial report.</p> <p>To get the information one would have to ask for the revenue sub-ledgers for each airport, which in Texas would require exercising an Open Records Request, and go through each one of them. Once that task was completed, the next step would be to match the expenses (operational and capital) to each revenue source. And so forth and so forth. It would be a daunting task. This is why I have seen little if any hard evidence to support the notion that the air carriers don't pay their fair share of the aviation infrastructure that they use.</p>
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