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$11 billion later, high speed rail in US drags along

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[quote user="oltmannd"] [quote user="Sam1"]The nation's large airports, as an example, are economic engines that generate millions of dollars of tax revenues, i.e. terminal vendors, parking concessionaires, taxi franchisees, etc. They flow to the national, state, and local treasures, and they probably cover most if not all of the monies that flow from the general  fund to the airports. [/quote] You are using the "sports stadium" argument.  You're missing the bigger point.  The economic development around airports that is just support for the airport is no better than a wash.  If you didn't have the airport, the effort could go into something else in the local economy. What the airport or highway or rail line does is that is a plus is economic development beyond the existing local economy.  It is the thing a region needs (among other things) to attact business to locate - factories and offices, to allow conventions to occur, to improve tourism, etc.  Stuff that brings money and commerce in from outside. It's why one shouldn't get so hung up on profit and loss for transportation facilities.  The focus should be on cost/benefit for the region. [/quote] Telling someone that he is missing the point or implying that he has not read whatever he should have read - you did not do the latter - is a put down. I don't understand people who feel compelled to denigrate other people because they disagree with their point of view. You can make your point without putting people down.  Without commercial aviation, as well as its support services, there would be no need for the large airports and the support activities.  Aviation drives the need. I have never said that the infrastructure should make a profit.  It doesn't.  It should cover its costs from the users. Hopefully, the users are making a profit.  That is the key question.  The point that I was addressing is that no commercial activity makes money hauling passenger. That's not true. Just take a look at the current financials for the nation's airlines, bus companies, cruise ship lines, van services, taxi companies, etc.  The margins are very thin, to say the least, but to say that they don't make money is incorrect. People who want to refute this notion claim that the carriers are only able to make money because they don't pay for the infrastructure that they use. That's not true. Whether they pay their fair share is arguable. Users of the airways, highways, and waterways have one advantage that the railroads don't have. They are used by many different users and, therefore, the fixed costs can be spread over many users as opposed to a few.    The taxes paid by the airport vendors, as well as the support providers, probably offset any so-called subsidies for the airlines. Moreover, the airlines, as well as bus companies and cruise ship lines, don't receive direct cash subsidies from anyone. Only passenger rail requires a direct cash subsidy. The bottom line (profit) is a score card for a commercial activity. It helps drive efficiency. Without it there is little incentive to be at the top of your game. If it is not important, why did the Japanese and French work so diligently to turn a profit on their high speed lines and, subsequently, privatize them? If the market does not determine the cost/benefit of an activity, i.e. people decide in an arms length transaction what is worth paying for, the decision is driven by politics. And that tends go produce some wild distortions. The best and brightest business executives are motivated to generate a return for their stakeholders. It is a passion with them. It was a passion with me. I never met a top business executive or entrepreneur who would work for an organization that consistently loses money.  Which makes me wonder? What kind of an executive or senior manager goes to work for an Amtrak?   Getting up every morning knowing that you are with a loser cannot be very motivating.
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