Trains.com

Should Amtrak venture into high priority freight?

4035 views
26 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 202 posts
Should Amtrak venture into high priority freight?
Posted by zkr123 on Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:40 AM

Would Amtrak benefit from entering high priority freight service? 

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:58 AM

It's been tried before.  While George Warrington was president of Amtrak, a mail and express initiative was attempted as part of a "glide path to profitability".  While it did generate additional revenue, much of that additional revenue was absorbed by the additional expenses involved.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 30, 2014 10:36 AM

the answer is absolutely not     it requires capital investment and amtrak has capital investment needs that are more relavent to its various government mandated missions       ups and fedex do a fine job of priority freight transportation and a government subsidized competitor is not needed in the usa market

i fail to understand what motivates the question

do you have a problem with existing services

or don't you understand that the railroads' obligation to provide cross-the-board transportation services went out the window with the invention of the auto and the use of paved highways and streets.

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:46 PM

From what I recall, the freight railroads weren't too pleased with giving priorty routing to those 40-car long Amtrak "passenger" trains that were comprised of 38  freight cars. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 1,751 posts
Posted by dakotafred on Thursday, October 30, 2014 5:15 PM

Zugmann remembers it exactly right. And when Warrington started talking about hauling stuff like furniture, U.P.'s irritation with Amtrak turned to outright hostility. "That's our freight they're talking about," said a U.P. official, in a Trains story.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Thursday, October 30, 2014 7:11 PM

Many would say that if Amtrak were to venture into high priority freight, it would exceed its authority given in the various governing laws (starting with the chartering act of 1971).

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 76 posts
Posted by railtrail on Thursday, October 30, 2014 7:26 PM

No there was case law when Amtrak did haul freight dating to REA. AND NO Amtrak was not stealing railroads freight. Railroads ONLY haul Carload Lots and only under Contract. Amtrak was hauling LTL which Freight Railroads wont touch with a 10 foot pole.

  • Member since
    August 2013
  • 3,006 posts
Posted by ACY Tom on Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:42 PM

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

First, you asked if Amtrak would benefit from more competition (as if that would help).  Then you wondered about privatization, which is what we had pre-Amtrak.  Now it's freight, for a Company whose legal raison d'etre is passenger service.  These poor dead horses have been beaten too much too often by too many already.

Tom

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 30, 2014 10:19 PM

zugmann

From what I recall, the freight railroads weren't too pleased with giving priorty routing to those 40-car long Amtrak "passenger" trains that were comprised of 38  freight cars. 

I remember riding the Three Rivers from Chicago to Pittsburgh. The time I rode it the train had two coaches, a cafe/lounge car and a sleeper. Although I don't remember how many head-end cars it had, it seemed like there were 15 to 20 of them.  

Successful commercial enterprises know their core mission (business purpose) and competencies. They keep their focus on them.  Many failed businesses lose sight of their mission and their core competencies. Frequently they spread themselves too thin.

Outside of the NEC, as well as several corridors, Amtrak has not been a successful commercial enterprise. It has lost more than $30 billion, before adjustment for inflation, since its birth.  A major reason is because it has been forced for political reasons to focus its energies too broadly. Getting into any kind of package or freight service would dissipate its focus even more than is the case now. 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • 422 posts
Posted by Dragoman on Thursday, October 30, 2014 11:07 PM

ACY

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

First, you asked if Amtrak would benefit from more competition (as if that would help).  Then you wondered about privatization, which is what we had pre-Amtrak.  Now it's freight, for a Company whose legal raison d'etre is passenger service.  These poor dead horses have been beaten too much too often by too many already.

Tom

 

Tom, the originator of this post, zkr123, has only been a member here for a fairly short time, and has been asking a fair number of questions.  Perhaps he/she is trying to explore and learn from the rest of us, in a maaner that is much easier than trying to search the site for previous, similar discussions.

If you know of some previous relevent threads, post them here.  And maybe give the person a little bit of a break.  We were all new at one time or another.  Let us not be so harsh as to discourage a newcomer.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 31, 2014 8:10 AM

to find relevant past threads i suggest you use whatever search facilities are currently available in the new look forum, and there was much discussion in the past on material handling cars, on amtrak's entrance and departure froml the priority freight business, reasons, etc.   i agree we should welcome newcomers to the forum.   at the same time, questions might best be really meanfull and real-world oriented.   you would not want a newcomer to ask should amtrak get into the steamship or airline business, to push the point to an extreme, and remember railroads were involved in both at one time.   questions like privatizing dining cars or sleepers or seem relavent to me as questions     remember what the purpose of amtrak's inauguration really was, and questions about it might have more relavence.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 40 posts
Posted by Dixie Flyer on Friday, October 31, 2014 10:27 AM

If a private company wants to add a car to an Amtrak train for $2.00 per mile (private passenger car rate) why not.  Whether it carries l.c.l, freight, autos, express, flowers or vegtables who cares?  If they provide the capital, marketing etc the only reponsibility of Amtrak is to lease more motive power.  If it cuts loses that is a good thing.

 

  • Member since
    August 2013
  • 3,006 posts
Posted by ACY Tom on Friday, October 31, 2014 11:17 AM

Point taken.  I should be more patient & understanding.  I guess I've spent too many years making the same arguments.  So let's pretend I got a dope-slap, and we can move on.

Tom

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 1,180 posts
Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Friday, October 31, 2014 11:57 AM

The freight railroads did not go along with Amtrak hauling any type of freight including mail . plus it created all kinds of operational issues. I can remember the west bound  lake shore arriving Albany on time and leaving  an hour or more late due to cutting the mail cars in. Same issue in Chicago where they stopped just short of union station  to cut them off. Amtrak was created (lol) to be a passenger operation. Not a leave it to beaver era railroad.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Friday, October 31, 2014 12:21 PM

One change that was necessary was that the California Zephyr terminate in Emeryville (where it not stopped before) rather than Oakland, because the train was too long to stop between street crossings in Oakland. The Coast Starlight stops in both places, and it is longer than theZephyr. And, Amtrak has bus service to/from San Francisco in connection with the Starlight  .

Johnny

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, October 31, 2014 1:19 PM

We should welcome all new comers and their questions to Train's forums, etc.

Many of the people who participate in the forums, etc. are geezers, including yours truly.  There is a pretty high probability that many of us will be gone in a few years.  As in off the face of the earth! Or at least six feet under it.

If the rail fan community does not attract and retain new blood, Trains and like kind publications will become a thing of the past.

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 1,180 posts
Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Saturday, November 1, 2014 2:22 AM

Another point consider is railroads never handled more than a few head end cars on thier premier trains. You never see the silver meoter, the empire builder or 20 the century ltd hauling LCL or long strings of mail cars. Most railroads had secondary or dedicated mail/express trains for that purpose. Railroads  took care of thier passengers and provided fast service on thier passenger trains.

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 1,180 posts
Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Saturday, November 1, 2014 2:41 AM

One last point, Amtrak does offer package express between its manned stations with trains with baggage cars. This service is a slimed down version of what the rea used to do minus door to door service via rea delivery trucks.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, November 1, 2014 3:37 PM

This is not a widely known service.   Anyone have experience using it?

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 1, 2014 4:12 PM

daveklepper

This is not a widely known service.   Anyone have experience using it? 

Information re: Amtrak's Express Shipping can be found on the company's webpage under Policies > Baggage Policy and Service.  Actually, I found it by typing package shipping in the Ask Julie box and was directed to the site.

The service is offered between 100 cities.  The policy does not say anything about shipments being restricted to trains with baggage cars; however, I presume it would have to be at least a coach/baggage car.  

Several years ago I looked into shipping my bicycle from Dallas to Tucson on the Texas Eagle.  The Eagle  only has a coach/baggage car;  it does not have a full length baggage car. 

I decided against it because it is easier to put the bicycle on the back of my car and drive to Tucson.  However, if one does not want to drive from Dallas to Tucson, as an example, he or she can get a box from Amtrak, box up the bike, and ship it for not a lot of money. The biggest drawback, at least when I checked into it, was the need to remove the pedals, turn the handlebars parallel to the frame, which usually means loosening one of the brake cables, and getting the box to the station.

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 1,180 posts
Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Saturday, November 1, 2014 11:05 PM

Pretty sure it is restricted to trains offering checked baggage and at a maned station...could be wrong.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, November 1, 2014 11:37 PM

Under "Travel Information," the public timetable describes Amtrak Express, which offers Small package shipments, Heavy and commercial shipments, and Mortuary services. There is a description of each category.

"For more information about rates, transit times and acceptable items, call Amtrak Express desk at 1-800-377-6914, Mondays thorugh Fridays, 8:30 a.m.-8:00 p.m. Eastern time."

Johnny

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 1,180 posts
Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Saturday, November 1, 2014 11:51 PM

Thanks johnny

  • Member since
    October 2012
  • 177 posts
Posted by Jim200 on Sunday, November 2, 2014 1:47 AM

The public timetable shows an increase to 100 lbs and 4ft x 4ft x 4ft on non-palletized items, which is not yet reflected on the hard to find page on the internet. Palletized items remain the same at 500 lbs, but you will have to call Amtrak to find out which stations can handle all of these heavier items. A short while back, Amtrak contracted with someone to haul items on the Southwest Chief, but I haven't seen anything further.

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 2,560 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, November 2, 2014 9:01 AM

I think VIA offers this service also. A friend of mine who just retired from VIA used to ship things fairly often. Might have been only for employees, though.

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 202 posts
Posted by zkr123 on Sunday, November 2, 2014 12:25 PM

I forgot amtrak shipped dead bodies. 

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Sunday, November 2, 2014 3:04 PM

zkr123

I forgot amtrak shipped dead bodies. 

 

 

To be fair, they weren't like that when they got on.  The train just got delayed a bit..

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy