THE.RR TomDiehl Other famous names still on the Amtrak Timetable: Coast Starlight As you can see, quite a percentage of Amtrak's noncommuter trains carry a famous name I'm supprised that no one caught it yet, but the Coast Starlight is an Amtrak name. They made 1 train out of 2 SP Daylights (Coast & Shasta IIRC). That is why it carries the numbers 11 & 14 and not 11 & 12 for Amtrak. For the SP it was #11/12 and the 13/14. (Odd going to San Francisco. even going away) Phil
TomDiehl Other famous names still on the Amtrak Timetable: Coast Starlight As you can see, quite a percentage of Amtrak's noncommuter trains carry a famous name
Other famous names still on the Amtrak Timetable:
Coast Starlight
As you can see, quite a percentage of Amtrak's noncommuter trains carry a famous name
I'm supprised that no one caught it yet, but the Coast Starlight is an Amtrak name. They made 1 train out of 2 SP Daylights (Coast & Shasta IIRC). That is why it carries the numbers 11 & 14 and not 11 & 12 for Amtrak. For the SP it was #11/12 and the 13/14. (Odd going to San Francisco. even going away)
Phil
Al - in - Stockton
BHirschi BostonTrainGuy California Zephyr - Yikes he's the Greek God of the west wind - atheist unite! Actually, you'd probably catch more flak from fundamentalist Christians ("Thou shalt have no other gods before me," dontcha know). All kidding aside, most Amtrak trains do carry the names of famous streamliners, albeit some in modified form. An idea I had a few years ago was to bring back the famous railroad colors. Paint one locomotive a specific color for a specific train, including the original railroad name and herald, with a small Amtrak logo and the train name on each side of the nose, and assign that single locomotive to run on the point of the train whose name it carries. Some examples: Auto Train -- Auto Train purple, scarlet and white. California Zephyr -- Chicago, Burlington & Quincy silver and red City of New Orleans -- Illinois Central orange and brown Coast Starlight -- Southern Pacific "Daylight" scheme (yes, I know this is an Amtrak name, not an SP name, but since it runs the route of the Daylights, the colors are appropriate). Crescent -- Southern green, white and gold Empire Builder -- Great Northern green and orange Hiawatha -- Milwaukee Road orange and maroon Keystone -- Pennsylvania tuscan red and gold Lake Shore Limited -- New York Central grey "Lightning Bolt" scheme Silver Meteor/Silver Star -- Seaboard Air Line "Citrus" scheme Southwest Chief -- Santa Fe "Warbonnet" scheme Sunset Limited -- Southern Pacific "Black Widow" scheme Texas Eagle -- Missouri Pacific blue and white There is a precedent for this -- for some time in the 1970s, Amtrak operated GG1 No. 4935, also known as the "Blackjack," in full Pennsylvania RR paint, on its trains in the Northeast Corridor. I doubt this idea will ever come to pass. Licensing fees and the cost of painting and maintaining the locomotives would probably be way too high, and Amtrak has better things to spend its money on. But it would be cool -- and certainly attention-getting!
BostonTrainGuy California Zephyr - Yikes he's the Greek God of the west wind - atheist unite!
California Zephyr - Yikes he's the Greek God of the west wind - atheist unite!
Actually, you'd probably catch more flak from fundamentalist Christians ("Thou shalt have no other gods before me," dontcha know).
All kidding aside, most Amtrak trains do carry the names of famous streamliners, albeit some in modified form. An idea I had a few years ago was to bring back the famous railroad colors. Paint one locomotive a specific color for a specific train, including the original railroad name and herald, with a small Amtrak logo and the train name on each side of the nose, and assign that single locomotive to run on the point of the train whose name it carries. Some examples:
Auto Train -- Auto Train purple, scarlet and white.
California Zephyr -- Chicago, Burlington & Quincy silver and red
City of New Orleans -- Illinois Central orange and brown
Coast Starlight -- Southern Pacific "Daylight" scheme (yes, I know this is an Amtrak name, not an SP name, but since it runs the route of the Daylights, the colors are appropriate).
Crescent -- Southern green, white and gold
Empire Builder -- Great Northern green and orange
Hiawatha -- Milwaukee Road orange and maroon
Keystone -- Pennsylvania tuscan red and gold
Lake Shore Limited -- New York Central grey "Lightning Bolt" scheme
Silver Meteor/Silver Star -- Seaboard Air Line "Citrus" scheme
Southwest Chief -- Santa Fe "Warbonnet" scheme
Sunset Limited -- Southern Pacific "Black Widow" scheme
Texas Eagle -- Missouri Pacific blue and white
There is a precedent for this -- for some time in the 1970s, Amtrak operated GG1 No. 4935, also known as the "Blackjack," in full Pennsylvania RR paint, on its trains in the Northeast Corridor.
I doubt this idea will ever come to pass. Licensing fees and the cost of painting and maintaining the locomotives would probably be way too high, and Amtrak has better things to spend its money on. But it would be cool -- and certainly attention-getting!
Add to the list the Pennsylvanian with a P42 in Tuscan Red with gold pinstripes.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/TomDiehl/Heritage.jpg
A T&H society could raise funds to pay for the repaint(s) and maintenance of the colors. Amtrak would be getting someone else to pay for the paint jobs.
It is May 1 again,Amtrak is 38 today. Let us remember that there is only one train a day between Minneapolis/ St Paul and Chicago. America has chosen I-94 and the middle seat of a 737 as its method of intercity travel. I am actually upset that Amtrak uses famous named trains from the past. Didn't Santa Fe tell Amtrak they could not use the name Super Chief if exacting standards were not maintained.
I'm not holding my breath that Amtrak will change, and I will be surprised if high speed rail is built in the next 25 years.Congress will sit there and let our infrastucture fall apart.
aricat Congress will sit there and let our infrastucture fall apart.
Congress will sit there and let our infrastucture fall apart.
That sentence has more to do with the future of Amtrak, high speed rail, and passenger train service in general than any fact or emotional arguement pro or con. Until Congress makes up its mind about what it wants, or better what this country needs and wants, there will be nothing but rhetoric, emotions, and status quo at best and total demise at worst. If Congress says yes, then its a go (of sorts). If Congress says no, then it will be up to private enterprise to step up to the plate and make a pitch, or for other regional authorities to be formed to pursue the sevices.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Folks, if you make a list of, say, twenty of the names mentioned in this thread and take it on the street and ask random passers-by what the names have in common, I doubt that many of them are going to have a clue. If you eliminate the names currently in use by Amtrak, the recognition factor is going to drop to close to zero.
What is the median age of our population? I'm not sure, but I suspect many of those trains have been gone longer than that.
The naming of trains was, is, and has to be, part of the marketing of the railroad, the train, and the service. Nancy Hanks means nothing to somebody in Pennsylvania while Phoebe Snow means nothing to anybody in the midwest.. To simply give a train a name like naming your dog for the sake of giving it a name makes little sense. Empire Corridor is descriptive of service for New York State but Super Chief wouldn't fit there nor would the San Juaquine or the Panama Limited. So, new names have to be invented and applied, yes, but with marketing and service to make the name mean something. Zypher was a great name for trains and service: descriptive and marketed to live up to that descriptive name. I suppose that is similar to Acela today. But after that we get bogged down in nostalgia rather than marketing.
Here's a suggestion for NEC express trains: American Flyer!
And call the regional trains Metroliners !
(Sorry for any service mark infringement upon the respected owners...)
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood." Daniel Burnham
American Flyer! I am actually surprised the New Haven and Gilbert Toy Company did't work out a deal to use that name!
Metroliners is so passe`! How 'bout Corridor Comets? Or something else more pertinent to today. No, I really don't think Corridor Comets is any good either.
Indeed, Metroliner is passe' and is too similar to the name given many subway systems. I should explain that "American Flyer" was a possible name for NEC express trains, and Bombardier has rights to use it for trains. But it sounds too much like my red wagon...
Honestly, besides renaming the express trains to anything else, why can't the "regional" trains have names again? Yankee Clipper, Minuteman, Night Owl...
What an interesting thread. But how could The Lake Shore Limited be left off a list of famous train names? We here in Ohio are incredibly proud of the old Lake Shore & Michigan Southern Railway, headquarted in Cleveland, which was taken over by the Vanderbilts in 1869 and lost its name later. My 1927 NYC timetable shows The Lake Shore Limited as trains 19 & 22. In fact, I bet The Lake Shore Limited is one of the oldest continuously used names in American passenger train history (not counting the 1972-75 hiatus of this train by Amtrak when the Lake Shore route was without passenger service).
Let's hear it for the old LS&MS Railway and its eponymous, and famous old train, even if she isn't very glamorous today.
"Limited", meaning limited number of stops and thus higher average speed has been replaced by "Express" which has pretty much the same meaning.
But I agree. Ask someone which train they are taking and they will respond with the name, not the number. The old historical names would be welcomed by those of us old enough to remember them and would provide a link for those who are not.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
NKP guy In fact, I bet The Lake Shore Limited is one of the oldest continuously used names in American passenger train history (not counting the 1972-75 hiatus of this train by Amtrak when the Lake Shore route was without passenger service).
In fact, I bet The Lake Shore Limited is one of the oldest continuously used names in American passenger train history (not counting the 1972-75 hiatus of this train by Amtrak when the Lake Shore route was without passenger service).
I think the honor of the oldest continuously used train name that Amtrak is using would go to the Sunset Limited, a name was have been used more or less continuously since 1894. The pre-Amtrak Lake Shore Limited name was used from the mid-1890's until the mid 1950's.
In relating to the rest of this thread, I think that it is very unfortunate that Amtrak listened to some uninformed marketing strategists in dropping individual Northeast Corridor and other corridor train names in favor of brand labels. Heck, in Germany, Deutsche Bahn has given individual names to most of their ICE runs, names with cultural and historical relevance to the German populace.
True. Americans are more likely to identify a train by its arrival or departure time than by its number. Unless they make up a name which, more often than not, doesn't fit the image the railroad or its marketing department have in mind.
I'd like to second the motion to bring back names for Amtrak trains on the Northeast Corridor. It reminds me of the line from the Johnny Rivers song "Secret Agent Man", "they've given you a number and taken away your name."
From 1968-73 I rode trains frequently between New York and New Haven as well as elsewhere on the Corridor. Being a Midwesterner I loved riding trains with regional-specific names like the Bay State, the Colonial, and the Bunker Hill. My favorite name from those years was the Merchants Limited which conjured up images of well-dressed rich men eating like princes in the New Haven's famous dining cars, though by 1973 it wasn't quite that way.
May I add that these day trains had no sleepers but they did have those wonderful old PRR parlor cars, as late as 1972 or 73. Those who have not boarded a parlor car and sat in those most comfortable single seats, which both swiveled and reclined, and had the attendant inquire as to which of the freshly-prepared meals I wanted served at my seat as we sped toward Fun City or the Elm City (New Haven) have missed a very wonderful thing, indeed.
I also rode New Haven commuter trains out of Grand Central and as a very young man loved the idea that the late afternoon trains often had Bar Cars. I could watch a few well-heeled Connecticut business men literally drink, while standing, all the way home to Greenwich, Cos Cob, Darien or some other such place. I imagined they had a drink or two before dinner when they got home, too, but at least they weren't driving.
Anyway, I sure miss trains with names on the NE Corridor and I think the name American Flyer, mentioned earlier here, would be terrific for Amtrak trains that serve New Haven where years ago the toys themselves were manufactured.
So why did Amtrak get rid of names on the Northeast Corridor? I've seen posts that it involved marketing, but does anybody know for sure what the argument against names was?
Patrick Boylan
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gardendance So why did Amtrak get rid of names on the Northeast Corridor? I've seen posts that it involved marketing, but does anybody know for sure what the argument against names was?
Johnny
Why? Marketing. Good cover. But the service was not the same, some of the names were owned by the old railroads, some of the names no longer made sense, Amtrak had to start with a clean slate, airline mentality took over, it weren't your old man's Oldsmobile! Should names come back? Not neccessarily the old names but new imaginitive and service and geographically applicable perhaps. Marketing. Good cover.
Like it's been mentioned, Amtrak did keep some of the famous names, like the California Zephyr and Empire Builder. The Zephyr does have a slightly different route in California, using the UP route of their "City of St. Louis" over the old SP route. The original Zephyr, which I was able to ride, used the WP route of the Feather River Canyon. I have also ridden Amtrak's Empire Builder and I'm glad they kept that name. The Coast Starlight route I also took years ago and I think SP called it the Coast Daylight or something like that.
Back in the day, the trains from the west came into Oakland and you were bused across the Bay Bridge. I'd never been to Emeryville until I rode Amtrak's Coast Starlight. When you left San Fran to head south, then you boarded the train at a station located in San Fran, which is no longer there, because it looks like only Emeryville is used now.
Amtrak does a great job in my opinion, I was very pleased with the service on these trains I've mentioned and also the Southwest Chief. It's been an uphill battle for them all the way, but there are signs it might get a little easier with the current administration being more "train" friendly. I certainly hope so, it's about time. Airports and highways are jammed to the max and what better way to see our country than from the windows of a train.
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