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Denver and Toronto airport lines: why high platform single level?

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Posted by gardendance on Wednesday, December 16, 2015 10:44 AM

I didn't describe Baltimore's arrangement as well as I think I should have. If I remember correctly the door at the operator's end has at least 2 parts: a cantilevered piece that swings down parallel to the door to fill in the step, then when the door's open another piece that's more like what I consider a bridge plate that the operator flips over to meet the platform's handicapped ramp.

From your description it sounds like what Denver uses has only 1 moving part which the operator lowers after opening the door which then covers the steps and helps bridge the gap between car and platform. Is my description accurate? Wouldn't it be nice if we could find some photos?

Patrick Boylan

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, December 18, 2015 1:57 AM

From what I remember, SF's MUNI has an entirely different arrangement, so cars can operate like normal high-floor siubway cars in the high-platform subway and like streetcars elsewhere.  The two or three steps are individual elevators within the car.  Three positions, as a flat panel for all three at low-platform level, as steps, and as a flat panel, all tlhree, at car-floor high-platform level.  A wheel chair or handicapped person steps on the low-platform level panle, the operator raises all three simultaneously to the high-floor level.  In the subway the three steps are normally at the high-floor level, outside as steps.  That is what I remember.   There may be only two steps and not three, however.

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Posted by gardendance on Friday, December 18, 2015 4:19 AM

Dave, I think the 3 position step you describe must be the one at the operator's position. I remember the other doors had steps like what's in this video, and when I rode in the early 1990's they didn't yet have wheelchair ramps. In fact the Boeing Vertol LRV's http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=472030 at the time had the end doors on an angle that left too big a gap between high level platform and car, so that they used ONLY the mid-body doors at high level platforms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFGRyMF5TyU

this video, which includes newer cars, shows that they have an end angle like their Boeing predecessors, but the doors are aft of the angle, so I bet they can use all doors at high level platforms.

I have long been amazed at how San Francisco manages to transition their light rail cars between steps for street level boarding and flat for high platform boarding in service, with standees who somehow manage not to trip or get their feet lodged in the escalator like treads. Does anybody know any statistics for San Francisco light rail step injury claims?

Philadelphia's rebuilt PCC's have their wheelchair lifts at the center doors, I assumed San Francisco's rebuilt PCC's do too, but the video at 7:10 clearly shows no center door wheelchair lift, but at 7:55 I can see a street platform with a wheelchair ramp.

Patrick Boylan

Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, December 19, 2015 3:56 PM

The video did show the 3-position steps, but only two steps.

Quote:

Dave, I think the 3 position step you describe must be the one at the operator's position. I remember the other doors had steps like what's in this video, and when I rode in the early 1990's they didn't yet have wheelchair ramps. In fact the Boeing Vertol LRV's http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=472030 at the time had the end doors on an angle that left too big a gap between high level platform and car, so that they used ONLY the mid-body doors at high level platforms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFGRyMF5TyU

this video, which includes newer cars, shows that they have an end angle like their Boeing predecessors, but the doors are aft of the angle, so I bet they can use all doors at high level platforms.

I have long been amazed at how San Francisco manages to transition their light rail cars between steps for street level boarding and flat for high platform boarding in service, with standees who somehow manage not to trip or get their feet lodged in the escalator like treads. Does anybody know any statistics for San Francisco light rail step injury claims?

Philadelphia's rebuilt PCC's have their wheelchair lifts at the center doors, I assumed San Francisco's rebuilt PCC's do too, but the video at 7:10 clearly shows no center door wheelchair lift, but at 7:55 I can see a street platform with a wheelchair ramp.

 

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Posted by Ottawan on Monday, December 21, 2015 7:58 PM
Kitchener-Waterloo is building and extra low floor LRT with street running that shares some trackage with freight spurs. Where the freights pass a platform, a gauntlet track gives adequate clearance.
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Posted by highgreen on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 8:30 AM

Here's an apples-to-oranges comparison, but still apt, I think. These two downtown-airport lines are limited stop, heavy rail, but Pittsburgh's light rail system (which doesn't serve the airport) can shed light on your question. Its double-ended LRVs have high level floors, with three high and one low level doors per side. Major stops in the downtown subway and elsewhere are high level, but some of the street level stops can also be quite busy at times. When that's the case, the superiority of high level over low for loading/unloading efficiency is painfully obvious, especially when office workers or shoppers have bags and packages. This is true even when comparing use of the single low level door with use of a single high level one. (At high level stops without fare booth attendants, only a single high level door opens.)

I see no reason that high level would make these new services any less attractive to airport workers. High level doors and platforms with ramps, escalators or stairs make the going faster and easier for all.

 

 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, February 24, 2016 6:54 PM

Despite the fact that the new Denver Airport transit line does not come within 30 miles of the University of Colorado, UC paid $5 million for naming rights.  So if you want to go to the airport, don't look for the airport train, look for the University of Colorado A Line train.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_28663257/cu-wins-rtd-branding-agreement-dia-train

Also, while the trains will have level boarding convenient for travellers with luggage, pictures of the trains on RTD's website shows 3-2 seating with narrow isles, which should make it fairly difficult to drag your luggage thru the train.

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