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Saftey and security in and around subway and transit stations late at night and on "off" hours

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Saftey and security in and around subway and transit stations late at night and on "off" hours
Posted by trackrat on Monday, December 1, 2014 11:27 AM

I have gotten off at subway stations in the outer limits of the NY Subway system and Chicago as well as places like Baltimore late night after a long day of railfanning and I know and have some close calls. The incendent in Cleveland on a afternoon between rush hours happened at a station that used to have token clerks but are now unmanned. I have noticed a trend away from manned stations on amtrak,commuter railroads and subway systems and it makes me uncomfortable not just for me but like on the South Shore and the IC lines scared for some poor nurse who is getting off the late train who is a walking target.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, December 1, 2014 7:03 PM

I suspect those token sellers will eventually have to be replaced by security personnel.  It's probably easier for municipalities to get money for security, than for operating subsidy.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, December 1, 2014 7:52 PM

closed-circuit tv survaillance can help solve the problem and its installation is long overdue.  The state-of-the-art should include selectable audio pickup as well.

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Monday, December 1, 2014 7:59 PM

You will probably find that the unattended stations have video surveilance.  That seems to the way the systems are evolving.

Dave

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, December 1, 2014 8:31 PM

which system in the photograph?

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Monday, December 1, 2014 8:35 PM

Lynx Blue Line in Charlotte.

There are cameras on every platform and every light rail vehicle.

 

Dave

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, December 1, 2014 9:22 PM

Phoebe Vet

You will probably find that the unattended stations have video surveilance.  That seems to the way the systems are evolving.

 

I will feel so safe getting mugged or killed knowing that the incident will be on video. [/sarcasm]

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 1, 2014 9:38 PM

Perception is reality.  If people perceive public transit in the United States is not safe, they will not ride it irrespective of the statistics.

I know people in Dallas and Austin who will not use public transit because they believe it is not safe.  Moreover, they don't want to associate with what they perceive to be the lower class people who use it.

I have had some bad happenings on public transit, although I have not been the vicitim of a physical crime.  I use the DART light rail system, as well as its buses, during the day, but I would not ride it late at night.  

I am 75, and I am a target.  When I go to Dallas for the symphony, I catch a cab back to my hotel.   

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Tuesday, December 2, 2014 6:13 AM

Do you think the ticket clerk is going to run out and protect you?

Dave

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Posted by trackrat888 on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 2:10 PM

Phoebe Vet

Do you think the ticket clerk is going to run out and protect you?

 

No but having a human witness would discouage any shenaigans as well as having conceielled carry
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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 3:20 PM

The fantasy of the decade:

If only I carried a gun I would never be the victim of a crime.

Dave

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, January 15, 2015 7:07 AM

The trend to unmanned stations in off-peak periods is hardly new.  In my dim and distant high school days, I can recall that ticket agents at most South Shore and IC stations were on duty for the morning rush and were generally off-duty by noon with no agent on duty at all on weekends.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by gardendance on Thursday, January 15, 2015 8:42 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH, the original post mentions subways, which in my neighborhood, Philadelphia and the US northeast, had long meant staffed anytime the subway ran. I don't think many people consider the South Shore or IC, or any other Chicago area suburban railroads, to be subways.

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Posted by trackrat888 on Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:47 PM

The Cleveland rapid system is a hybrid of heavy and light rail. The heavy rail high platform rail was built and planned for 50 mile subway system that was never completed. The Shaker Rapid or light rail was a PCC operation where the operater collected fares

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Posted by trackrat888 on Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:49 PM
The shooting of the young man in Cleveland by police was at West Park a heavy rail station. The young man was told to put the BB gun away by several passengers
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Posted by gardendance on Thursday, January 15, 2015 4:14 PM

Which shooting do you mean? The one about which I remember reading was Tamir Rice http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/11/24/cleveland-police-kill-12-year-old-boy-wielding-bb-gun-that-looked-like-a-semi-automatic-pistol/

"On Saturday afternoon, 12-year-old Tamir Rice was sitting on a swing outside a recreation center in Cleveland, wearing a camouflage hat and hiding a BB gun in his waistband."

All accounts I've read said it was at a playground, not at a transit station.

Patrick Boylan

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, January 16, 2015 5:45 AM

PATH is solving the problem with complete 24 hour 7 day TV camera survailance of all station public areas, under installation.  Of course, it is a small system compared to NYCTA and CTA, but this should be possible there too.   Monitoring is at the building at Journal Sq., and the Port Authority Police Hq. can respond quickly to any incident seen.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, January 16, 2015 8:56 AM

Security cameras are better than nothing, but in the end all they do is record the incident.  A masked bad guy or a deranged one isn't likely to be concerned with cameras.

A uniform on the platform is the best solution.

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Friday, January 16, 2015 9:29 AM

Security cameras that are monitored can put whatever emergency service that is required on the platform quickly.  A uniform hanging around on a lightly used platform, or riding the train, just in case, is a very expensive proposition.  It takes 4 1/2 men to provide 1 man 24/7.  Most light rail systems do not provide for movement from car to car.  You are at just as much risk waiting for a bus.  It is not possible to eliminate all of life's risks.

Dave

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Posted by Wizlish on Saturday, January 17, 2015 8:06 AM

trackrat888
The shooting of the young man in Cleveland by police was at West Park a heavy rail station. The young man was told to put the BB gun away by several passengers

You're confusing two stories, I hope not intentionally.  The West Park shooting was a robbery, on December 9th.  It did not involve a BB gun mistaken for a real one, nor was it 'by police'.

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Posted by trackrat888 on Sunday, January 18, 2015 9:59 PM

There is so much going on in Cleveland as far as crime goes they should do a CSI series just for that town be safe when railfanning out there and be aware of where U park your car.

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Posted by trackrat888 on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 2:16 PM

"No Go Zones" are areas that police responce is non-existant or takes a long time to respond. Parts of Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland fall into this realm. Even isolated suburban areas like parts of Columbus OH and Indianapolis can be "No Go Zones"s ee- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-go_area.  Watch yourself around lonley isolated subway stations like most of the South Shore Stations

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 22, 2015 3:53 AM

I lack figures to prove it, of course, but I will bet that PATH is the very safest system largely using underground and elevated stations anywhere in the combined areas of North America and Euopre, although Toronto may also be a contender.

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Posted by 54light15 on Thursday, January 22, 2015 11:21 AM

All of the TTC stations are manned when the subway system is operating. I once caught the last train on the Danforth line and it was delayed getting to my stop. They were locking up the station when I arrived and they asked me why I was in the station and I told them that the train was late. No big deal really but at 2 am the streetcar does not stop in the station (Dundas st West) as the front doors are locked (there is nothing to stop you from walking in on the pavement where the buses and streetcars enter as there are no gates) and the 24-hour streetcar picks up at the corner of Bloor and Dundas just outside. The main thing is, there are no "no go" stations in Toronto no matter what the time of day or night. There are the occasional jumpers but crime on the TTC is almost non-existent.

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