Minneapolis Southwest Corridor -- Nearly Dead from the NIMBY's

[vsmith]

BaltACD

Phoebe Vet

NIMBYs file law suits, fight the results of required impact studies, and throw as many other obstacles as possible in the way of projects.  They often slow it down by years.  Then, when it finally gets built over their objections, they scream about the cost overruns caused by the delays.

And after it gets built and in use for a period of time - they can't imaging living without it.

Oh ain't that the truth!

We've had the same problems here in LA for decades building light rail and subways, but seeing how where ever the trains go - development, higher property values and money money money soon follow, alot of folks are now actively pursuing light rail for their neighborhoods. 

But there have been a few exceptions, the Expo line extension to Santa Monica was originally supposed to follow the old Pacific Electric route thru a now tony neighborhood called Cheviot Hills, but they hemmed and hawed and raised such a fuss that the line will now probably go south of the area. And the entire CITY of Beverly Hills has been actively fighting the Red Line subway extension even going UNDER their city. They have put up such a stink about any station being built inside the city boundaries that any stations will now probably be built just outside the city limits in West Hollywood and West LA. To which I say good! Stupid shortsighted BH city council , and its NOT because of the reasons you'd normally expect, because their arguments simply do not hold any water under examination, but the probable cause that NO ONE in either community will admit yet everyone else seams to see it clear as day, is of economic discrimination, namely keep all them dagnabited poor people out of our fair city. Which is INSANELY STUPID because what the heck is stopping them "po'folk" from simply DRIVING there now? Nothing....so screw BH, I hope West LA and West Hollywood get all the benefits from the development around the new stations and BH gets a big fat goose egg. 

[wjstix]

I'd like to see them just mothball the SW line for now, and move up some of the other lines. There's talk now of building the West 7th St. line, connecting downtown St.Paul to the airport/Mall of America. That would 'complete the triangle' between the airport and the two downtowns.

[petitnj]

Stix, that is a great idea. For those not in the Twin Cities, present light rail has two lines: Blue from Hooters at the Mall of America, thru the MSP airport to Dream Girls (Strip joint downtown Minneapolis). The second (green) line runs from Dream Girls directly east to Union Station in downtown St. Paul. The second line runs down University Avenue which used to be the commercial strip of St. Paul. It had Wards, car dealers, etc. There is still a Sears and Target on University Avenue but all other big retail is gone. 

The suggested line from St. Paul back to Hooters would be down West 7th Street,--still a major street with restaurants and shopping centers along nearly a straight line from downtown St. Paul to the MSP airport. Downtown St. Paul is a wasteland with the last retail store (Macy's) closing last year. St. Paul has lost much space to state office buildings (it is the capital) and museums, and has been unable to attract big office buildings. The suggested line from St. Paul to the airport would be a boon for the downtown and would not have too many detractors since it goes down a commercial avenue. One problem with downtown St. Paul is that it is land locked between the state Capitol to the north and the Mississippi River to the south. It has nowhere to go. The third line would be great for folks transferring from Amtrak to air travel. It would also be great for folks who live in St. Paul to go either way. 

[Buslist]

By CSSHEGEWISCH
on October 22, 2013
"The whole situation sounds remarkably similar to what occurred when street railways began developing in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Everybody wanted a street railway route to serve their neighborhood but on the next street over. In Chicago around 1900 or so, the Ashland Avenue route was forced one block over onto Paulina St from about 12th St to Chicago Avenue because of the outcries of the merchants and residents on Ashland (it was a rather trendy neighborhood at the time)."

Your description of the Ashland Ave. situation is a bit off. First of all the Paulina segment was from Roosevelt Rd (12th) to Lake not Chicago. Secondly this diversion had nothing to do with the protests of merchants (there were virtually none) or residents. What it was related to was in this stretch Ashland was a Boulevard and therefore under control of the local park board. Streetcar franchises were not granted on the Boulevard roads. This situation was later exploited by Chicago Motor Coach by later obtaining rights for its buses from the park boards, and serving the unserved Boulevard street network. Remember CMC's service name "The Boulevard Route"

[petitnj]

New challenges to the routing of the SW Light Rail have cropped up.  Turns out the bribes that the transit authority were making to the cities were not funded by the federal money. Now the city of Minneapolis and suburbs are throwing up more objections to the line (they will be able to hear the trains inspite of the roar of the nearby freeways). The new state legislature is not really in favor of transit. Maybe the pigs can start strapping on their wings again. 

[Phoebe Vet]

Some people are just spooked by change.  It is not just rail.

[Boyd]

The whining might sound a bit louder from the "rich" people of Lake Of The Isles area. Is it going through or near the Kenwood area? I hauled some junk away from a $600,000 house in that neighborhood 12+ years ago. a few churches could have fit in that house. 

[petitnj]

The line follows the TC&W line between Cedar Lake and Lake of the Isles in Minneapolis. And most of the houses in the area are $1M and up so they are looking to build a tunnel (under what, I have no idea) but cant figure a way across the channel between the two lakes. Hundreds of large homes were bulldozed for the freeways here in the Twin Cities, but now we can't put a rail system thru an area that used to be a major rail yard for the Chicago Great Western (now just one BNSF track west and a connection to TC&W. 

 

[petitnj]

The tunnel proposal has been tabled and a bridge has returned to the discussion. Turns out Minneapolis and the suburbs realized they could not get any more bribes from the construction money to fix parks, etc. Thus, the Park Board (a separate government body in Minneapolis) agreed to a bridge over the channel separating Cedar Lake and Lake of the Isles. The latest news is:

From the Sun Newspapers

This still involved a $250,000 bribe to the Park Board to "engineer trails and connections" but things might start moving again. Stay tuned. 

 

[Boyd]

The latest reports are that they fear this project dying. Isn't the line going up to the NW metro approved?

[petitnj]

Boyd, there are so many steps in the process that "approved" means many things. In the grand scheme of things, there are many corridors under study and development (Red Rock to Hastings, Rush Line to Forest Lake... all suburbs of Minneapolis, St. Paul, MN) The plan is to keep working on all and develop them as need arises. Costs have skyrocketed to the point that many of the corridors may just get bus service (as they have now). Only a few corridors have obvious right-of-ways. If they don't have land, the costs are so high that rail (light or not) is out of the question. Additionally, the falling gas prices have impacted the commuter rail service to Big Lake, MN (North Star line). That service may falter if ridership doesn't rise. Metro Council (our transportation coordination body) is doing all they can to keep the roads and rail open, but the resistance at every turn is amazing. 

[petitnj]

A citizens' group is now taking the planning process to court. Trying to block progress based on a plan completed before an Environmental Impact Statement was completed. (This is state and federal law but there is some debate about and EIS)

 

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/28296702/environmental-group-files-lawsuit-to-block-swlrt

 

The drama continues. 

[prk166]

I'm not sure why resitance to SW LRT is considered to be surprising or amazing.  Back when freeways were rammed through cities, a Federal law was passed to ensure park land was not used for these big projects.  That law covers this project too.   

More so, the MPLS park board has one purpose, to run Minneapolis' parks.  They are not and should not be expected to sacrifice prime park land and trails just because a large regional project wants to shave 5 or 10 % of it's construction costs.

[petitnj]

Just to bring the forum up to date: the cost of this light rail system has ballooned to $2B. That is well above what governments were guaranteed and the planning group is struggling to trim costs. They have eliminated some stations and simplified some designs and hope that they can reduce the cost by about $341M. The (nearly) final approval meeting is July 1. There are still some financing challenges but most hope that funds can be found. Of course, once the planners reveal which stations are eliminated, that will cause another firestorm of protests and certainly another lawsuit will germinate. Tune in next week. 

[aricat]

The irony is that the Kenwood area of Minneapolis was where the Cedar Lake Yard of the M&StL Railroad was once located; and the LRT route would vitually run along the old M&StL right of way. These neighborhood people once had to listen to a quite active rail yard until 1980 when the C&NW abandoned the yard and  downgraded but never abandoned the trackage. Part of the right of way the was used by the Minneapolis Park Board for a bike trail. The TC&W gained use of this right of way when the last part of   Milwaukee Road's transcontinental line through south Minneapolis, which the TC&W used until 2001 when it was severed due to construction of Minnesota highway 55 and the building of the Hiawatha line LRT.

[petitnj]

OK here comes another update. $250M was trimmed from the plans to keep it under the $2B price tag. Now the Metropolitan Council has decided that those changes warrant another round of public hearings. This will delay finalizing the plans until October. The pigs are taking off their wings and resting. They may never fly... 

Interestingly, because of highway construction, the commute from the west to the downtowns of Minneapolis or St. Paul have become nightmares this summer. Do we hear a cry to complete the light rail? -- not yet!

[schlimm]

aricat

These neighborhood people once had to listen to a quite active rail yard until 1980 when the C&NW abandoned the yard

35 years is a long time.  Very few residents would have ever heard freight trains running there.  

[aricat]

The Kenwood have put up with a few TC&W freights for quite a while and always complain. There are other parts of the Twin Cities that contend with BNSF and CP oil trains and whine less than Kenwood does.

The real losers in the Southwest light rail debate is the Minneapolis suburb of Eden Prairie and the people who work there. Eden Prairie did not begin to grow until the mid- 1980's then has grown quite rapidly with most who work there using their cars. There is a need for public mass transit in this suburb. The bus service here is limited and the bus service to the Opus Center which would be one of LRT stops uses Minneapolis city streets over most of its route from downtown Minneapolis.